Use access key #2 to skip to page content.

2004, Greatest Canadian Ever

Recs

5

July 30, 2009 – Comments (18)

And the winner is....

Not Alexander Graham Bell, #9

Not Wayne Gretzky, #10

As voted by 1.2 million Canadians in 2004 the winner is...

Tommy Douglas !?! ??

Who the HE double hocky sticks is that?

Oh. I guess they forgave him for that Single Payer Canadian Healthcare.

18 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On July 30, 2009 at 6:15 PM, beatnik11 (< 20) wrote:

I always find it funny when I hear talking heads on USA tv and radio claim that the canadian healthcare system is a disaster and that they hate it, it really couldnt be further fromt he truth.  Go up to our neighboors up north and strike up some conversations, yanks will find that the majority of them are quite happy for their system and would never dream of scrapping it for a USA style private system.  I guess they dont like to trade in their major health problems for major financial problems like they do in the land of milk and honey, who knew?

Report this comment
#2) On July 30, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Sleddawg63 (38.46) wrote:

As a Canadian I have very few issues with our health care system.  Yes you will find lots of stories slamming it, but essentially it is a far better system for a far greater perecentage of the population then what is currently in the United States.

It does fall short and it does so in areas where the most money can be made from a procedure or disease.   Radical cancer treatment?  You go to the US.  Brain operation?  You go to the US.  If you are a talented doctor and you want to make the most money possible...you go to the US.

The stories of Canadians on long lists jumping to pay for US procedures is true, I won't deny that.  But you are looking at the tip of the iceberg and not at the vast good beneath the radar.

Canadians are healthier (but have the same unhealthy vices) and live much longer than Americans.  That is a testiment to the health system.

The true flaw in the Canadian system isn't so much the system, but the government that runs it.  Aggressively fund the system and there would be far fewer negative stories.  Federal and provincial governments need to slash other expenses long before health and education.

Although I am Canadian, my mother is American.  She suffers greatly from obscene fees and costs that she wouldn't incure in Canada.  A three day hospital stay in 2006 put her back thousands...all the while the America hospital we visited her in had a front lobby straight out an opulant roman villa.  Health care money should never be spent on a facade.

Report this comment
#3) On July 30, 2009 at 7:28 PM, FleaBagger (28.78) wrote:

It's probably pretty similar to how we've forgiven FDR for extending Hoover's Great Depression for an extra 12 years.

Report this comment
#4) On July 30, 2009 at 7:36 PM, kdakota630 (29.82) wrote:

I'm a little skeptical about that poll, if for no other reason that I don't think that many Canadians even KNOW who Tommy Douglas is.

Anyway...

My sentiment is pretty much along the lines of Sleddawg63.  I've got some good stories about our healthcare system, and some pretty bad ones, although my bad ones are no where near the horror stories you hear from the U.S., and for some prime examples you need look no further than Michael Moore's Sicko.

My good stories... anything baby-related.  They were great for my wife's three pregnancies for labour, post-baby care (whatever the proper term for that is), and with our youngest who needed to be placed in NICU for a week because he was so premature, and in particularly the NICU people.  Another time while pregnant with our first, she became concerned towards the end of the term, went to the hospital and was rushed in and immediately taken care of.  I remember that so distinctly because it was the first time in my life I can remember NOT waiting to see someone.

Most of the bad stories are just what are usually reported in the U.S. media about long waits.  A friend of mine (who actually is a nurse) made an appointment to see someone for a thyroid condition, and the earlier they could fit her in is 6 months.  A customer of mine used to buy this joint stuff from me because he was waiting for knee surgery for I believe 8-9 months, only to have it pushed back another 3-4 months.  Another guy I know was told it looked like he had brain cancer but couldn't see anyone for months.  He ended up going to the U.S. for treatment, although luckily it turned out to not be serious.

Other than that you usually just have long waits in the emergency rooms, but I don't think that's too different from the U.S., unless you come in losing large amount of blood or something.  My wife made me to the hospital because I had symptoms of a heart attack (which I KNEW I didn't, but there was no arguing) and I got in in about 2 hours, one time she was lying on the waiting room floor coughing up blood and still waited about 5 hours to get into a room, and probably another 2-4 hours before anyone came in (I was sleeping on the floor which is the reason for my time frame on that one).

I don't think the problem with the U.S. system is the quality of care at all, which I think is evidenced by the fact that the U.S. is where people go to get the best health care.  The problem is the cost of insurance.  However, I'm not overly familiar with the U.S. system, that's just my observations from a distance.

Report this comment
#5) On July 30, 2009 at 7:49 PM, chk999 (99.98) wrote:

This is a quote from TMFHelical about the system in MA. It is in his blog today.

"It has not been successful at reigning in costs,"

There are good reasons to worry about single payer systems and their side effects. They are not the pancea that you think they are.

Report this comment
#6) On July 30, 2009 at 10:49 PM, devoish (97.62) wrote:

chk999,

Massachusetts 2006 reforms are sell-out to the insurers as usual, as previously tried in Tennessee, VT, Maine, Washington state, Oregon and 1993 Massachussetts under Gov Dukakis.

Single Payer has never been tried in the USA.

We now have 92 Representatives.

Report this comment
#7) On July 30, 2009 at 11:38 PM, NOTvuffett (< 20) wrote:

I hear about these long waits to see a specialist or get a CT scan or an MRI in other countries.  I was hospitalized a couple of years ago because of a seizure.  They gave me the CT and the MRI within 1 day, and they had both of the machines at the hospital I was in, and it was just a typical suburban hospital.

 

Report this comment
#8) On July 30, 2009 at 11:50 PM, FleaBagger (28.78) wrote:

Single Payer has never been tried in the USA.

But free market medical care has - a long, long time ago. And it worked. People paid for what they got, got what they paid for, and people who took stupid health risks weren't a burden on the rest of us.

Report this comment
#9) On July 31, 2009 at 1:36 AM, cthomas1017 (95.78) wrote:

"The true flaw in the Canadian system isn't so much the system, but the government that runs it."  How silly for us yanks to not realize that there isn't any relation between the system and the government.  Just keep the system completely separate from the government and we have our marching orders.  Thanks for the tip, Nuk.

Report this comment
#10) On July 31, 2009 at 7:40 AM, devoish (97.62) wrote:

cthomas,

Thanks for reading. What country would you model after?

Flea,

Also thanks for reading. Free Market healthcare in the USA eneded for good when the Pennsylvania assembly funded our countries first hospital. It ended because Philadelphia's citizens observed that its results sucked. Observing the same free market caused suckage, NY City's citizens followed suit and funded the second hospital in the US, financed by King James.

Report this comment
#11) On July 31, 2009 at 7:43 AM, devoish (97.62) wrote:

Correction 

Free Market healthcare in the New World eneded for good when the Pennsylvania assembly funded our countries first hospital. It ended because Philadelphia's citizens observed that its results sucked. Observing the same free market caused suckage, NY City's citizens followed suit and funded the second hospital in the New World, financed by King James

Report this comment
#12) On July 31, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Sleddawg63 (38.46) wrote:

Good posts people.

I doubt there is a perfect system.  Best defense of the US system is that those who take care of themselves shouldn't pay for those that don't.  I believe in that reasoning, but it doesn't help those victimized by crime or bad luck.

If I could change the system In Canada I would add a user pay-per-visit.  Not much, maybe $10-$20 per visit (patients 16yrs+) to the doctor, emergency etc.  One of the drawbacks of our system is that when you make it "free" to visit...useless visits go up...clogging the system.  Plus it would inject new money into the system...especially to keep good docs north of the border.

Other than that I wouldn't change much.

 

Report this comment
#13) On July 31, 2009 at 9:14 AM, DownEscalator (< 20) wrote:

Devoish - one of the forgotten elements on those first hospitals is that they built-in ways to make the system sustainable and surportable.  The Pennsyvania version required admittees to find two tax-paying citizens to make a deposit on behalf of admitees.  Bellevue Hospital in NY originally had an occupational therapy center that focused on practical arts to get the "vagrants" working as functioning members of society.

Contrast this with today, where people want to give out healthcare completely free with the "vagrant" citizens giving absolutely nothing in return to indemnify the system.

Report this comment
#14) On July 31, 2009 at 9:19 AM, devoish (97.62) wrote:

Sleddawg,

No.

pay/visit once started goes up until you cause the US problem of not visiting when needed. It restricts access and cuts the costs of insurers while not cutting their fees. Pure marketing scam.

The US system is the fastest falling system in the world. There is no defense for that.

Report this comment
#15) On July 31, 2009 at 9:27 AM, devoish (97.62) wrote:

Downescalator,

I would love a link to that story, thanks.

Eventually "sustainability" evolved into a "for profit" insurance system. It has failed. Lets move on to a more sustainable model. HR676

20% of Americans are not insured. 20% of Americans are not "vagrants".

Of the insured, of those who actually need their insurance, 10% find out they are underinsured or dropped. After they paid for twenty years. They were not vagrants either.

It is time to move on.

Report this comment
#16) On July 31, 2009 at 10:26 AM, kdakota630 (29.82) wrote:

If I could change the system In Canada I would add a user pay-per-visit.  Not much, maybe $10-$20 per visit (patients 16yrs+) to the doctor, emergency etc.  One of the drawbacks of our system is that when you make it "free" to visit...useless visits go up...clogging the system.  Plus it would inject new money into the system...especially to keep good docs north of the border.

I couldn't agree more.  It would discourage people who don't need care from going too often and clogging up the system.

Report this comment
#17) On July 31, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Sleddawg63 (38.46) wrote:

Deovish, you think $10 would keep an adult from visiting a doctor for a legitimate reason?  Doubtful.  If that's so then the US system is doomed.  As it is Canadian doctors get paid for every visit and they are milking the system.  My doctor has be back every three months for heartburn meds when a repeat script is all I need.

There needs to be some personal responsibility in using public healthcare.  That's from both sides.  As it is ambulance rides aren't free in Ontario...that in an effort to cut down on trips that aren't dire.

As for the suggestion above to get sponsors to vouch for healthcare...it may have worked decades ago in Pennsylvania, but we are now in a very transient society where many people may not know two people well enough to get a sponsor.

Sponsorship is a solution for illegal immigration, but that would be another thread. 

Report this comment
#18) On July 31, 2009 at 2:06 PM, devoish (97.62) wrote:

Sleddawg,

Do you think $10-$20 would discourage people from visiting a Doctor for an illegitimate reason?  More than time off from work? More than making an appointment months in advance? For a prescription of Zanax they can sell?

$20. is a choice between a Dr visit or food for many people.

Report this comment

Featured Broker Partners


Advertisement