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EverydayInvestor (100.00)

How to lose 110% of your money in real estate in 2 years: A happy ending with a few morals

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December 25, 2008 – Comments (16) | RELATED TICKERS: LQD , JNK , VTI

If you subscribed to my twitter feed (which is a a must), then you were likely confused by my tweet from earlier today in which I simply said "free!!!!". That tweet was a celebration of having sold an investment property (a 4-family rental property) two days previously. I lost approximately 110% of my equity investment in the property. This is in addition to the money I lost when I sold my house at the beginning of 2008. And yet I couldn't be happier. Why? Because real estate has not bottomed and prices will continue to fall. Furthermore, over the next couple years, even after the bottom in housing, prices will remain stagnant. So while I lost a lot of money, I have avoided losing more. And don't cry for me--I've been doing quite well in my day job, so my financial situation is the same as it was before I lost all that money in real estate.

Here are some lessons you should draw from my misfortune:

1. If you have a reason to sell something (whether real estate or stocks), sell it quick and be done with it. Don't hope prices will rebound. I had very good reasons for selling my property this year (even outside of slumping real estate prices); if I had gotten aggressive in pricing earlier I could have sold it for more money, reducing my loss to maybe 95%. When you buy a stock, you should have an idea what would make you sell it; if that happens, sell it!

2. Don't own real estate unless you are 99% sure that you will live in an area at least 10 years. This is a high hurdle, but owning real estate will reduce your mobility, impairing your ability to move to get a better job, and the costs of buying and selling mean that if prices are stagnant (let alone falling) you will not do well to buy. The common wisdom I was told was that living in an area 5 years was enough, and that is way too short of a time to plan on owning one piece of RE.

3. If you do everything right and yet buy at a cyclical peak, you will lose. I did everything right in my 4-flat investment, except that I bought at a cyclical peak. While I was cash-flow positive from the beginning, got good tenants, and increased rents, I bought at a capitalization rate of about 8% and sold at a cap rate of maybe 14% (think of it as like an interest rate, the inverse of a P/E). Likewise with stocks -- if you bought a year ago you lost because of the fall in P/E ratios, even for stocks with stable earnings.

4.Consider non-obvious risks and costs. Costs with real estate include your time. Risks include getting sued, regulatory risk (I lost some money due to variations in my income over the period in time I owned the rental property and how that affected my tax situation). For those of you in stocks, think about all the time you spend investigating them and whether that is worth it. Please note that I am a full-time day-trader and financial blogger and I do not believe it is worth it for me to invest in individual stocks (for investment, I only buy broad-based ETFs, currently VTI and VEU).

5. Always consider other investments. Right now, you can buy solid, investment grade corporate bonds at yields of 6% to 7%. The ETF LQD was yielding 7% last I checked. In this environment why buy real estate when you can get great returns from bonds with little risk (assuming you are diversified). I bought some JNK (junk bond ETF) a week or two ago and believe that most corporate bonds will do very well henceforth. When you consider any investment, consider whether the alternatives are more attractive.

16 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On December 25, 2008 at 10:54 PM, EverydayInvestor (100.00) wrote:

Oh, and happy Kwanzaa! Tomorrow we celebrate Umoja, or unity. Let us be united against incompetent government and bailouts of failed companies.

 

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#2) On December 25, 2008 at 11:11 PM, zloj (98.48) wrote:

What made you sell a leveraged investment offering a 14% yield? I don't see what other alternative could be even more attractive than that. Was it a tax sell?

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#3) On December 25, 2008 at 11:39 PM, FleaBagger (99.16) wrote:

Ha ha ha... Kwanzaa!

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#4) On December 25, 2008 at 11:53 PM, brwn8484 (98.24) wrote:

You seem to have forgotten the ugly little secret that prevents most  people from staying green in bond funds.  I mean as we hit hyper-inflation all your principal will evaporate and your bond funds will tank.  This is the next area to be hit by a financial tsunami. 

Wait and see!!!!!

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#5) On December 26, 2008 at 1:08 AM, leftfield4sure (42.12) wrote:

Solid advise across the board,stragedy is always necessary to succeed in the long run.When to cut your losses and move on ;insightfull.Dont think i have quite put it to myself that quite that way.So would you consider money lost,percentage of money lost or the timeframe???Or perhaps a formula taking loss over time ,where would risk factor in?

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#6) On December 26, 2008 at 10:36 AM, EverydayInvestor (100.00) wrote:

leftfield - Some people will have fundamental stops, others value/based or technical; it depends. So, for example, if your stock's CEO decides to get arrested for embezzlement, selling may be a good idea. Personally I am not a fan of stop losses or technical stops.

brwn - A large country with a popular country is not at large risk of hyperinflation. Inflation is always a risk, but if the USD is not safe, why would the Yen or Renimbi be better? If another country goes to the gold standard, then I would worry.

zloj - the 14% yield is illusory. You need to consider the amount of time it takes to manage the place. Considering my day job and how well I do, my time is much more valuable than two years ago. Also, RE offers great tax benefits to those making under a certain income. I no longer qualify. Lastly, my wife is looking for a new job; dumping the real estate makes us more portable.

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#7) On December 26, 2008 at 2:39 PM, seo711 (< 20) wrote:

Hi,

Great post! I'd like to ask your permission to reprint this on my real estate blog.

Please email me at:

brokerforyou@gmail.com

 Bob

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#8) On December 26, 2008 at 3:57 PM, jegr5347 (< 20) wrote:

EDI,

What is your website/blog address? I lost it and can't find your post where you have the link.

Also, are you still following that shorting strategy form that guy that converted you to his methods? 

 

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#9) On December 27, 2008 at 12:13 AM, FleaBagger (99.16) wrote:

EDI -

I think the point of warning about USD inflation and inflation in other currencies is to encourage commodities, particularly gold.

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#10) On December 27, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Tastylunch (99.64) wrote:

Please note that I am a full-time day-trader and financial blogger and I do not believe it is worth it for me to invest in individual stocks

Ah-Ha, I wondered when the conscience change in self title would occur. Mayhap EverydayTrader would be a more appropriate name? or Goodetrade.com? :-)

Considering where you were a year ago, I figured you were likely moving this way. It's a failry natural evolution I would think. I wonder if 15 months ago you ever thought you'd be a daytrader and consider yourself to be one. My guess is when you get large enough where daytrading effectively becomes difficult you may start Buffet vesting in businesses. :-)

I guess TSRI is no longer worthy your capital eh? I suppose its small size /float is more of a problem for you now. :-)

Congrats on selling the ole apartment building. Good riddance I say for what you are trying to do.

Incidentally a lot of the reasons you mention are why I usually only mess with commericial real estate (although I haven't bought any in a good long while now), NNN leases are a lot less time intensive, frees me up to run my other business. Still it's going to be a very long while before any of that is fairly lucrative again. It's fugly out there to put it well ...lightly.

 well congrats again.

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#11) On December 27, 2008 at 8:51 PM, trustyfrog (98.33) wrote:

EDI,

IMHO, you're playing with fire if you have no real estate exposure.

You should always have some doubt in your ability to forcast future events.  The more you are right, the harder that is to do, so I worry about you.  I hope you believe that there is a descent chance you could be wrong about future RE prices, hyperinflation, and other economic variables.

I think you are wrong about future RE prices btw, but I am pretty sure I could be wrong :)  Because of that, I don't rely heavily on my assumptions when making investment decisions.

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#12) On December 28, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Wraithlok (65.66) wrote:

EDI,   Question for you;

 

I am taking a small portion of my stocks which have been traditionally been in very solid long term "big companies" such as MSFT,AAPL etc and moving them into cash to daytrade;

I like your idea of investing only in diversified ETF's etc, are there any resources to read up on the idea?

Thanks

 

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#13) On December 28, 2008 at 3:55 PM, EverydayInvestor (100.00) wrote:

okay, I'll try to answer questions.

seo - no, unless you post your blog here first. drop me a pm or reply here.

jegr -  My blog is www.Goodevalue.com. Most of what I post there I post here too, but not all. I still use Tim Sykes' trading methods but use a few other methods too.

I do have real estate exposure still through some land I inherited (owned free and clear) -- but I am not convinced that RE is a necessary asset class. I was trying to make the point that other assets still look attractive when compared to RE--a month ago I bought Comcast listed debt yielding 12%! I will be selling it in the new year for a yield of 9% and pocketing a nice gain.

 Wraithlok--I do not recommend daytrading. 95% of people who do it lose money. In a month or so I will be publishing a blog post called "So you want to be a daytrader". I have a blog post on my other blog entitled something like "An ETF asset allocation plan for everyone"

Tasty - yeah, but I don't blog enough to get a separate goodetrader.com domain name. I still own TSRI (TSR) in my IRA; it is the only individual stock I still own.

Fleabagger - commodities are not investments because they provide no yield. If you want to hold commodities as wealth, fine. But gold should not (and historically has not) offered any return over inflation. Same with other commodities. At current equity prices, I'd rather buy shares in commodity companies if I expected prices to shoot up.

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#14) On January 01, 2009 at 4:12 PM, dwot (99.98) wrote:

I was packing this time last year, leaving my home behind.  I sure loved that home...

But I like the lack of financial stress better.

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#15) On January 02, 2009 at 7:08 PM, JakilaTheHun (99.93) wrote:

Do you have any advice to a mid-20s professional who is thinking about buying a condo/house sometime within the next 1-3 years? 

If I'm buying, it's a "home" rather than an investment, but all the same, I'd prefer to let prices fall as much as possible before doing so.  In my head, I've been thinking mid- to late- 2010 might be ideal, but I also worry that the government is going to step in and try to "reinflate" the bubble at some point.

In a way, I'd rather rent for all of eternity ... but I've noticed that rental rates aren't dropping anywhere nearly as quickly as housing prices.  I'm assuming landlords are still passing on their overpriced property costs to tenants and might try to do so for some time into the future. 

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#16) On January 03, 2009 at 11:17 AM, paintjockey (47.12) wrote:

Real Estate is still the best investment for people in the business full-time. Trouble is that many got hooked on the easy-money idea and that it would never end. I have been involved with RE for decades and weathered two busts. Challenge is to ride the horse even if ride is bumpy. Yes market is not bottomed but close to it. Here in Marty Robbins town we are still growing slowly and forclosures are down. With mortgage rates falling, might be good time here.

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