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GoodVibe4Ever (99.08)

GoodVibe Market Vibes – The anatomy of the rally

Recs

49

March 31, 2009 – Comments (153) | RELATED TICKERS: G , V , CALL

                                ………   Notice ………

Previous closed but related blogs to this post's content are:

1. Let the charts speak for themselves March 6, 2009
2. The anatomy of the bottom (Leg Two) March 13, 2009
3. Beware bulls of the ides of March March 16, 2009
4. When will the bull cross the Rubicon? March 18, 2009
5. The crossing of the Victor March 19, 2009
6. Bulls victoria! March 24, 2009

Other blogs that we are currently actively commenting on are:

1. GoodVibe Lounge

2. GoodVibe Chart Lab

Please, choose the appropriate blog to post your comments and questions in. Click here to read this post carefully before reading further or commenting to know why we are doing this. Thanks!

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“The thing that has been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the sun."Ecclesiastes

“What actually registers in the stock market's fluctuations, are not the events themselves, but the human reactions to these events. In short, how millions of individual men and women feel these happenings may affect their future.” Above all else, the stock market is people. It’s people trying to read the future. And it’s this intensely human quality that makes the stock market so dramatic an arena, in which men and women pit their conflicting judgments, their hopes and fears, strengths and weaknesses, greeds and ideals."Bernard Baruch

                                                          ....................

Elliott weekly lesson:

** Stock market prices trend and reverse in recognizable patterns. The patterns are repetitive in form but not necessarily in time or amplitude. They link together to form larger versions of themselves and in turn link to form the same patterns for the next larger size, and so on, producing a structured progression. Elliott wave principle - Page 19

** The wave principle is governed by man’s social nature, and since he has a nature, its expression generates forms. As the forms are repetitive, they have predictive value. Sometimes the market appears to reflect outside conditions and events, but at other times it is entirely detached from what most people assume are casual conditions. The market has a law of its own. It is not propelled by the external causality to which one becomes accustomed in the everyday experience of life. The path of prices is not a product of news. Nor the market is cyclically rhythmic machine that some declare it to be. Elliott wave principle - Page 21

** In markets, progress ultimately takes the form of five waves in a specific structure. Motive (impulse) waves have five-wave structure. Three of these waves are labeled (1), (3), and (5) where they effect the directional movement and follow the same direction as the one larger trend. They are separated by two countertrend corrective waves, which are labeled (2) and (4). In general, motive waves don’t always point upward, and corrective waves don’t always point downward. The mode of a wave is determined not by its absolute direction but primarily by its relative direction. The essential underlying tendency of the wave principal is that action in the same direction are carried in five waves, while reaction against the one larger trend develops in three waves, at all degrees of trend.

Note the followings:

1. Wave (2) never moves beyond the start of wave (1)
2. Wave (3) is never the shortest one.
3. Wave (4) never enters (overlap) the price territory of wave (1)
4. Wave (2) and (4) nearly always alternate in form, where one correction is typically zigzag and the other is either flat or triangle.

In our current large wave structure since October 2007, the direction is DOWN where the motive waves within the larger motive wave are down and the major corrective waves within them are UP. See charts below. 

** All waves maybe categorized by relative size, or degree. The degree of a wave is determined by its size and position relative to component, adjacent and encompassing waves. Elliott named nine degrees of waves, from the smallest discernible on an hourly chart to the largest wave he could assume existed from the data then available. He choose the following terms for these degrees, from largest to smallest: Elliott wave principle - Page 26

* Grand supercycle: multi-century
* Supercycle: multi-decade (40-70 years)
* Cycle: one year to several years.
* Primary: a few months to a couple of years
* Intermediate: weeks to months
* Minor: weeks
* Minute: days
* Minuette: hours
* Subminuette: minutes

              ................  End of lesson ............

What is the large picture?

We are in a DOWN cycle wave (ideally should be consisted of five primary waves) that started October 11, 2007. A cycle wave usually lasts one year to several years. Within this cycle wave, to the best of my count, primary wave {1} DOWN has bottomed on March 6-9, 2009 in all major indices. My current most acceptable count lead me to believe that primary wave {2} UP is underway. A primary wave usually lasts a few months to a couple of years. I expect primary wave {2} UP to last 3 to 6 months with possible minimum target of S&P 1015 – 1125 and DOW 9422 – 10334

Where are we coming from?

Since March 6-9 launch of primary wave {2} UP, the bulls are sweeping the bears’ strongholds with their bulldozers and the chainsaw’ jugglers who shorted the market deep down are losing limbs right and left. Reasons of why we rallied can be summed in one sentence: “The strong hands are back in town.” They got their treasure chest filled from the Fed’s almost zero interest rate, and also uploaded their trash to the Fed’s balance sheet in exchange of crisp T-bills. They loaded more dry powder from the alphabet soup bailing plans by the billions from the treasury, issuing bonds insured by the FDIC, as well as taxpayers’ money funneled through AIG, and squeezing John and Joan by hijacking interest rates and calling loans among other gimmicks to milk the system they are calling themselves indispensable part of. Now, they are not only able to hold the sell off they were forced into since last year but also to load up the wagon.

Intermediate wave (A) that lasts weeks to months started as the first leg of that buying binge primary wave {2} UP, where minor wave 1 UP of primary wave {2} UP ended sometime last week. The exact ending point is still unclear at this moment. Currently, minor wave 2 DOWN that lasts maximum few weeks is undergoing. This minor wave 2 DOWN with its possible formation of minute waves that each lasts for few days will be the topic of this blog and the comments below. Keep this blog for chart updates when needed. If there's no chart update, there nothing of value to add.

Where we are going?

Now that those who captured the bottom and filled their books with double and triple gains are the winners and those who watched and hesitated are biting their nails for not joining the party and we can call them sinners. For fund managers, the only thing worse than losing money is underperforming their benchmark. Performance anxiety was a very viable upside catalyst for the last three weeks. Now,  traditionally the winners will try to hurt the sinners (the chasers, nail bitters) so they can even look smarter and their window look better while the sinners even look uglier. The winners usually will fade away the day before the final tally, which was last Friday as they did and accelerated the selling even before the open on Monday. Now they handed the bag to the sinners while raising loads of cash to show off with and buy back what they sold high at lower prices later. Also, pay attention to hedge fund redemptions starting today. Many funds typically require 30 to 60 days notice on withdrawals, March 31st is the first quarterly exit offered to many investors in the space. For more on the hands behind the curtains, check out this article by Todd Harrison .

According to EWP, there are 11 different Elliott wave corrective patterns at all degrees and or combinations, as opposed to just one impulse pattern (with a slight variation in a fifth wave). We are in a primary corrective wave {2} UP against the primary impulse wave {1} DOWN. So forecasting how this corrective wave {2} UP is gonna unfold is not an easy task. An impulse wave is easier in the sense that one never knows with a high-degree of certainty the specific wave structure of a countertrend move until well into its development. That said, we will take one day, week, and month at a time to try to pin down trading positions that serve the larger current trend, which is UP. Meaning I will lean to the long side more than the short side.

For the micro view - As I said, we are in minor wave 2 down. Second waves in general often but not always retrace so much of wave one that most of the profits gained up to that time are eroded away by the time it ends. This is especially true of call option purchases, as premiums sink drastically in the environment of fear during second waves. At this point, investors are thoroughly convinced that the bear market is back to stay. Second waves often end on very low volume and volatility, indicating a drying up of selling pressure in anticipation of the start of wave three. Elliott wave principle - Page 79


 

153 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On March 31, 2009 at 7:35 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Chart analysis:

Wave 2 down count looks to be almost complete though the large picture overbought condition from the first three charts tell me it's not yet.

SP 03.30.09

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DJ 03.30.09

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Nasdaq 03.30.09

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CPC 03.30.09

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VIX 03.30.09

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The Fight around The Rubicon. If the bulls hold their grounds here, they can go in sidways actions to resolve the overbought conditions and buy some time. If they lose it, the gate is open to the downside.

SP 4M 03.30.09

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SP Wave 1 03.30.09

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 SP Flat wave

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          ...................       Plan         ..................

I will keep the red and the blue line on my radar. Going naked long here with such overbought condition is not my style.

That said, in a bullish phase overbought condition, we can remain this way without going down longer than the bears like. The bulls can push higher and then retreat from higher grounds. Monday's pullback reduced this scenario but a new high will reverse my comfort level that we will stall if not pull back from Monday's close.

I believe that we're bottomed @ 666 and that the rewards are far greater than the downside risk. Depend on your timeframe and risk tolerance, I would think that starting core positions on the long side for good quality stocks - especially if you have short exposure (as I do) - is the best way to go at all pull backs. If you can take the pain for as much as the March lows, you can start in any pullback and add more long exposure either with more downside or a push to new high. Again, this is not an advice but this is what I'll be doing.

I hope this added some value to your thinking. Be happy, do good, and the rest will be taken care of. 

GoodVibe

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#2) On March 31, 2009 at 8:01 AM, sommeros (< 20) wrote:

Congratulation!

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#3) On March 31, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Gemini846 (91.33) wrote:

That is an awesome analysis. I assume it would be safe to watch for a bit more downside pressure (minor wave 2) before initiating those positions with the assumption that this pullback could end as early as wednesday or drag into next week.

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#4) On March 31, 2009 at 9:36 AM, TigerPack (99.98) wrote:

The rally may come sooner and be sharper than most anyone expects.  I am looking for overbought conditions on most charts to be near record levels in a few more weeks, leaving most investors stunned and on the sidelines "waiting" for a pullback that never comes to get back in, after selling near the lows during the October-March period.  That's the action bull markets have created historically, if past guidebooks hold.

A jump in the S&P 500 to 950-1000 by mid-May cannot be ruled out.

Further, if you are bearish long-term, a monster/sharp rally to this area would not necessarily run counter to patterns like 1930 or a few other examples of sharp retracements.

Such an explosion higher would undoubtedly produce some real enthusiasm (and help the economy and consumer confidence in a number of ways) as we break to a 6-month high trade and test your blue trendline just under 1000 by mid-May.

The return of the uptick rule and mark-to-market changes have yet to be announced, and we are all ready for optimisim about life in general with spring now upon us!

-Tiger's Two Cents

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#5) On March 31, 2009 at 9:38 AM, columbia1 (30.27) wrote:

GV- In the sixth chart down, sp 4m, I think you have the Fib. #'s reversed.

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#6) On March 31, 2009 at 10:02 AM, OldEnglish (28.57) wrote:

"Remain calm. All is well." -Kevin Bacon in Animal House, 1978

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#7) On March 31, 2009 at 10:31 AM, arboretum (30.35) wrote:

I am with TigerPack. I stopped out of all my short positions last week, and while I clearly would have been better off hanging onto them until Monday, I am not sorry to see the back of them. I see a lot of upside as well as downside risk from here.

GV: I have great respect for the thoroughness of your TA. You said above that the ending point for Wave 1 is not clear, yet also you are quite sure we are in Wave 2 and have been since last week. Are you 100% on that call? Could you give us some clear rationale for why Wave 1 ended last week?

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#8) On March 31, 2009 at 10:50 AM, mattskin (96.55) wrote:

GV - The only thing I did not follow is why you identified 832 as a buying point.  If I understand correctly, you said you would buy at the Fib #'s, and then again at 832 on the way up, is this because you see that point as confirmation of wave 3 up?

Thanks for all your help!

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#9) On March 31, 2009 at 11:19 AM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

The retrace to 798 can be interepreted in 2 ways

(1) Its a 50% retrace of Wave 3 ( 820-779) ...

(2) While its a 38% retrace from 834 top.

If its (1) then we will have Wave 5 to complete out A

If its (2)  then we could have had A-B completion here with C left for corrective 2.

 

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#10) On March 31, 2009 at 11:52 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

What do you think?

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#11) On March 31, 2009 at 1:01 PM, PrestonCheek (88.98) wrote:

GV, thats great work, I'm not finding the time to keep up lately but I will get there. I had a lot of work to do at home and I'm chiopping away at it.

I hope all is well in your world.

Preston

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#12) On March 31, 2009 at 4:27 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Not an official chart yet - Just toying with the idea. I want to see one more leg down to touch and hold. This is a possible end formation for wave 2 down.

SP - Possible end formation

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GoodVibe

PS. Please check the lounge for comments 

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#13) On March 31, 2009 at 9:47 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

GoodVibe,

First let me say that is an incredible post! I love the format and I the technical analysts side of me appreciates the background first and then diving in.

First let me preface this by saying I have not finished the book. I am on Chapter 3. I love it, but I am taking my time to let it sink in. So some of my questions may have the answers in the book and I just haven't got to it yet. If so I apologize. Just let me know :)

Question 1:


My first question is on the background. You write above:

What is the large picture?

We are in a DOWN cycle wave (ideally should be consisted of five primary waves) that started October 11, 2007. A cycle wave usually lasts one year to several years. Within this cycle wave, to the best of my count, primary wave {1} DOWN has bottomed on March 6-9, 2009 in all major indices. My current most acceptable count lead me to believe that primary wave {2} UP is underway. A primary wave usually lasts a few months to a couple of years. I expect primary wave {2} UP to last 3 to 6 months with possible minimum target of S&P 1015 – 1125 and DOW 9422 – 10334


 .... So we are in a down cycle wave, and you labeled the move from the top (Oct 2007) to the current bottom (Mar 6, 2009) as 1 of primary degree. 1-2-3-4-5 are motive waves. So this would imply that the last wave progression of cycle degree is over and we are starting a new wave progression of cycle degree. Why is this new cycle degree progression a motive wave progression (1-2-3-4-5) and not a corrective wave progression (A-B-C)?

Question 2:

In comment #1, I am comparing Charts 7 and 8, where Chart 7 and a steeper correction (more of a zigzag) and Chart 8 shows a flat correction. Are you showing these as two possible scenarios?

Question 3:

These next set of questions are somewhat moot, since we have the price action from today. And based on comment 12 above, it looks like this is more likely to be a zigzag or perhaps a triangle correction. But think of these next questions more as a hypothetical:

What clues will you be looking for that will let you know if the correction will be zigzag or flat? Can you only now after some of the price action is revealed, or are the volume indicators or wave retracements will respect to the Wave 1 subwaves that will give you a clue?

.... Again, thanks for all your time with this! And if my answers are in the book, just refer me to the proper pages, it is not necessary for a detailed explanation :)

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#14) On March 31, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Mary953 (23.42) wrote:

A yes or no question based on my attempt at charting - On how to use Fib numbers - When I used the Fib tool to generate Fib spots on my chart, is that what you were doing here? I started mine to link to 50% at my main buying spot.  Correct or incorrect? (I can get the answer from the lounge but wanted the question here with the chart)

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#15) On April 01, 2009 at 12:15 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Binve wrote -

"1-2-3-4-5 are motive waves."

Only 1 3 and 5 are. 2 and 4 are corrective of 1 and 3. Primary 1 is motive.

"Why is this new cycle degree progression a motive wave progression (1-2-3-4-5) and not a corrective wave progression (A-B-C)?"

Primary wave 2 as A B C (by the way it can be A B C D E triangle too) and it is corrective move to primary impulse 1 where the A and C part are impulse and B is corrective. Every wave corrective or impulse has both kinds. It all depends on the wave direction. Now, we are going up to correct a wave down because we are in bear market. Unlike bull market when we go down to correct a wave up. Just set down and read the bold three words above and it will hit you. If not ask again and I'll try to put it in different words.

"Question 2: Are you showing these as two possible scenarios?"

Yes!

"What clues will you be looking for that will let you know if the correction will be zigzag or flat?"

Zig Zag need to break the uptrend channel and retrace to 50%. Flat it should stay where it's now or little bit lower. Make a new high and I believe wave 2 is done.

Thanks for your questions.

Matt - 832 comeback after a nice fall suggests that wave 2 down is done and big wave 3 up is starting.

abor - It's fine not to pin point when exactly a wave ended to know that another one started. It happens. The complete count AND the deep fall is what confirmed that 1 ended. Correction waves are many as I said and usually you know they ended when they are really done but also you can trade them by narrowing the options that they can manifest about and put a wave size and shape they usually take. That will require a lot of watching and experience.

Mary - You use Fib tool by picking a bottom and a top. Usually the last two on a chart and connect between them to get the retracement levels. Did this help?

Comment #2 and #6 - Please! Use the lounge post. Thanks though.

GoodVibe

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#16) On April 01, 2009 at 12:33 AM, binve (28.36) wrote:

GoodVibe,

Thanks! Right, 1-3-5 are motive 2-4 are corrective. Gotcha.

But what I am still trying to do is to figure out the Cycle Degree framework. Why is the current Cycle Wave a 1-2-3-4-5 wave and not an A-B-C wave? 

Is there agreement about the counts at the Cycle Degree and above among Elliot Wave Technicians? 

You know me, I like to start with the big picture and work my way down :). It is probably immaterial for the current rally and pullbacks for the next several days. But I am trying to see the whole mountain range too, not just this mountatin :)

... Signing off from Base Camp 1 :)

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#17) On April 01, 2009 at 2:12 AM, tsoang (< 20) wrote:

Hi Binve, 

 The 1-2-3-4-5 is within A. So when we reach 5, A is done. We are not there yet so you don't see the "A" on the chart. 

 In regard to the big picture, I have seen two different counts from two different subscription newsletter. The problem is the two big double tops in 2000 and 2007 can be interpreted in different ways. However, I think most technicians will agree that we are in a 4th Grand Supercycle down. Some say it started in 2000 but some say it started in 2007. 

The correction we have right now looks to me like a typical zigzag, so Wednesday should be a down day. Although GV just presented a very interesting triangle to us that I haven't thought of. I hope he's right. I'm still holding my short and waiting for the corrective to approach the end. The triangle will give me some gains if that's the case. But I think I will slowly close them at around the fib numbers.

-tsoang 

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#18) On April 01, 2009 at 5:18 AM, intersub (97.86) wrote:

GV, Are there any other indicators out there (of the dozens) that would help us figure out whether this will be a zig zag or flat wave 2 and how long of a time it will last?  Also, why did you start counting the corrective wave 2 from 826 rather than 832?   After Tuesday's action then you say we are just about complete then with sub-wave d of 2? How many sub-waves (e,f,g, h?) can there be? Finally, what are the chances of a 62% retracement?  Thanks very much!

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#19) On April 01, 2009 at 5:45 AM, Earendil (< 20) wrote:

Goodvibe,

Echoing in on the same question binve asked in #13, you replied to in #15, and binve responded to in #16.

The big down wave, that started in October and ended in 666 on 9 March - Do you think that that wave was wave 1 down of a five wave bear downturn, or do you think it was wave A (down)(or maybe wave 1 down of A (down) of a major corrective wave against the ongoing upward trend (on a very large cycle scale)?

It seems to me that as long as human ingenuity and inventiveness continues, and as long as global society does not fall apart, the underlying impulse should be growth, and at some large scale, we should be in an ABC correction to that growth, rather than in a fundamentally bear market.

I think I am just re-phrasing binve's question in different words.  Would very much like to hear your interpretation.

 

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#20) On April 01, 2009 at 9:53 AM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

Binve -

Let me see if I can phrase the answer in a different way.  It's all about degrees.  To see why the pink labels are numbers rather than letters, you have to keep moving down degrees, one at a time.

As the book states, whether a wave is motive or corrective is determined by its relation to the trend of one degree higher.  A motive wave moves in the *same* direction as the trend of one degree higher.  A corrective wave moves in the direction *opposite* to the trend of one degree higher.  The subwaves of motive waves are labeled with numbers (1-2-3-4-5) and the subwaves of corrective waves are labeled with letters (A-B-C, sometimes D-E, or complex).

To put it concisely (detailed explanation to follow), pink 1 is a wave of minor degree within intermediate wave 'A', which is a motive wave within primary wave {2} -- i.e., 'A' moves in the same direction as {2}.  Because 'A' is a motive wave, its subwaves are labeled with numbers.

Here's a more detailed explanation. GV believes that we are currently within a primary wave {2} which is correcting primary wave {1}.  The direction of the current cycle (one degree above primary) is down, so {2} is a corrective primary wave up.  Because it is a corrective wave, its subwaves (which are of intermediate degree, one degree lower than primary) will be labeled with letters.  The reason you do not see the first intermediate 'A' wave labeled is because it is not yet complete.

To understand the pink labels, you must recognize that 'A' is a *motive* wave.  It moves in the same direction (in this case, up) as the wave of one degree higher, which is this case is blue {2}.  And because 'A' is a motive wave, its subwaves of 'A' are labeled with numbers, which on GV's chart are pink.

Hope that helps.

Cabot

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#21) On April 01, 2009 at 10:56 AM, binve (28.36) wrote:

cabotb21, Thanks for the explanation!

I believe I have all that straightened out now. But that really wasn't what I was asking in #16. But I am still trying to get the terminology straight so my questions are not as precise as I want them to be :). The other possibility, of course, is that I don't quite understand what I am asking for yet :)

I am referring to the large blue {1}, primary wave {1}.

Since this is a Primary wave {1}, then this implies that the first wave of the Cycle degree is a 1-2-3-4-5

Also since the Primary wave is labeled as a {1} and not as an {A}, this primary wave is considered motive in nature. So going up one level to the Cycle degree:

What is the form of the Cylce Degree wave we are currently in?

Are we in a 1, or 2 or 3, etc.?
Are we in an A, or B, etc.?

Again, I tend to be a big picture guy and like to work from the top down :)

tsoang, Thanks for the explanation!

So it seems like you believe that the current Cycle Degree wave that we are in is an A, correct? You can see how I am explaining this above in cabots reply, but I am not confident of my terminology yet :)

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#22) On April 01, 2009 at 12:36 PM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

GV...my friend ....need you today.....

See something really ominous developing.......I am out of all shorts......slightly emotional decision.....but the calc didn't favor anything different ....checked the open and then got stuck in meetings.....

I hope we are on the same page!

TIA

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#23) On April 01, 2009 at 12:40 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

anchak, Hey my man, what is on your radar?

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#24) On April 01, 2009 at 12:55 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

Here is my count for the Zig-Zag option. A MAJOR forewarning. I can see both counts as very viable and I'm about 50/50 on which is correct, take that into consideration. Just thought you guys might want to see what the Zig-Zag chart looks like.

 SPX15day

Enlarge, Live

****NOTICE, READ WITH CAUTION*******

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#25) On April 01, 2009 at 1:08 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

No anchak we are not exactly the same if I understood you correctly. I am adhering to my plan of reducing my shorting when numbers click not taking them all of the table. I hope that worked well for you though or at least with little damage. At any rate, may your first be your worst.

Good count Russ if C come to be 5 waves. This is your thinking, right?

GoodVibe

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#26) On April 01, 2009 at 1:09 PM, MastiffFool (< 20) wrote:

Russ, thanks for the chart. I'm like anchak and closed out my shorts.

Looks like we are in a triangle.

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#27) On April 01, 2009 at 1:11 PM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

I do not want set up panic .....so let GV handle this if he can.....

FULL retracement of C( last corrective formation) within minutes!

Remember C is the 3rd wave within a pattern ie if it continues ( and invalidates the earlier count , becoming motive in a 5 wave ) - then it has the chance of being 3 in a 5 wave.

In any any event it is logically a strong wave - this 3rd wave was covered on the long side as if it didn't happen -

call 1 of {3} .....hoping people discount this .... 

 

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#28) On April 01, 2009 at 1:16 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

You guys all are getting it right but you're talking about two things (short term and long term) and all the posters understand both well. When we reach end of C, I'll have a post nicely named - The anatomy of the collapse where I will show you the whole picture from the beginning way back to even before 1900! Now, let's stick to the matter at hand. Thinking so far can cloud your thinking for the short term direction. Trust me on that one.

Be happy!

GoodVibe

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#29) On April 01, 2009 at 1:21 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

anchak - Sure it could be 1 of 3 UP but who knows? I can't call this. Russ thinks of it as 2 of 5 of C of 2, which also a fair call knowing that C function as wave three do and can extend in fives. Page 83

If you thought it's 1 of 3, you could started core long position. Okay, it's too late now. I suggest you step out from trading and wait for you to find your edge. I hope this helped.

GoodVibe

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#30) On April 01, 2009 at 1:21 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

GV~ Yeah, that's my thought at preasent. Concluding 832 as wave 5 and we are in a ABC zig-zag. I think were playing it day by day nonetheless. I'm looking for a stong leg down by the end of today to confirm and start the 3rd wave of C down. If not today/tomrrow morning, then the Flat option maybe more viable. I got an "auto response" from your email so I know it when through this time FYI.

Mast~ I agree with you and GV that the triangle is the most really all that matters at this point. We need it to break either way to make some conclusion to where 2 is going to end.

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#31) On April 01, 2009 at 1:23 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

RussWild, Thanks for the chart! While I can understand others opinions that we have completed the Wave 2 correction and we are now ready for a Wave 3 move, it just doesn't "feel" right.

It seems like we have more consolidation work to do, before we attack the restistance at 850. Russ, your chart above is (at least in my mind, for what it's worth) IMO the most likely scenario

anchak, Hey man, I am still in my shorts. I may lose them however. Thank God I am wearing underwear ... :)

GoodVibe4Ever , I am thinking the same way. Not getting greedy with my shorts, but systematically lightening when we tick lower.

Here is a post of the current rally / correction. Looks like it is running out of steam. I am definitely not trying to start the habit of posting a bunch of intraday charts again, but I wanted to illustrate how the pullback really hasn't done much consoliation yet. Still seems like more work needs to be done at some lower levels.

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#32) On April 01, 2009 at 1:35 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

6 day MA.... Interesting catch Binve (aka, Mr. Green) That's my new name for you..hehe I mean it in a positive light, I hope you don't mind!

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#33) On April 01, 2009 at 1:42 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

RussWild, LOL! As long as that doesn't mean I have to shave my head and walk around in white all the time ... :) No worries :)

All: By my drawing of the trend lines, it looks like we are still in the triangle formation. I have also been watching XLF today. It went over yesterdays highs.

But if I draw a Fib retracement from the high on March 24 to the low on March 30 and I look where it stalled out today: Just under 62% retracement, just like the S&P 500.

Of course, that doesn't mean we can't break the triangle, but this just feels like a "short-scare" right now. (And it is working too. I am short and I am scared) :)

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#34) On April 01, 2009 at 1:48 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

Russ -

If you don't mind, how would you label the subwaves of minute wave 5 of minor wave (green) 1 in your chart #24?

Cabot

 

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#35) On April 01, 2009 at 1:49 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

808 held again without new daily high.... 811 breaks and the wave C zig-zag therory goes down the drain.

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#36) On April 01, 2009 at 1:54 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

Cab~ Good question indeed. Wave 5 of (green) 1, I played around with for about an hour trying to figure out that count. (ending diagnal, normal 5 count to 826 and 823..) I couldn't find a way of making it look.... ummm pretty..hehe

808 again... No! Sit down Bulls!!!!... It ain't gonna happen! lol

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#37) On April 01, 2009 at 1:57 PM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

I agree GV......actually I still have my last crash puts left....however I do not see extricating any value out of them unless there's big down move.

However, I am reasonably comfortable with my decision ...yes it was a HEAVY loss.....but my rationale is based on these facts

(i) You are right about the edge...... I raised some capital and will try to find a better entry.

I have all my long term longs running now.

(ii) Every correction of late has been followed by at least a 61.8% retrace.....

(iii) We are in C.....but it can resolve either way - given the Longer term expectation.....that was my resolution.

If C extends as per your thinking ....I will get a good entry point below 770....for Trading longs 

 

 

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#38) On April 01, 2009 at 1:58 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Russ - for me what matter the most is 832. Whatever in between doesn't count to confirm direction. So don't put much on 811 but do whatever you believe best for you. Welcome to the corrective waves. Picked a bottom and now corrective. You're getting the hard lessons first. :)

Current  808.94

GoodVibe

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#39) On April 01, 2009 at 2:01 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

anchak, Thanks for that!

That is a very logical and methodical way to manage the risk. I agree, things are not clear here.

But you laid out your thinking, your plan and your contingencies.

I agree, I am more lopsided short right now than I feel comfortable with. I am going to think hard and re-evaluate my position, see if it still makes sense to me.

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#40) On April 01, 2009 at 2:16 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

GV~ I see your point after looking at my Zig-Zag chart. 811 break (which it just did as i'm typing) only changes the B wave over to this new high. And yes, corrective waves are just nasty in nature. It's feelings of confusion after a easy count motive run, seems to logical based on people's emotions of such a run.

I tend to agree with the nature of Elliott's cycles and fib probability on this read. Regardless of count we would at least move close to the 38.2% retrace and I don't mind getting out early on this one (all or nothing) and hold for some time until we can confirm wave 3.

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#41) On April 01, 2009 at 2:17 PM, oversea (< 20) wrote:

How I like my longs these days! They are turning greener and greener by the minute, like happy plants attended by a proficient gardener after a cold winter ...

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#42) On April 01, 2009 at 3:27 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

Everybody:

Still trying to get the hang of this. Is this an allowable count?

Thanks!



Enlarge
 

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#43) On April 01, 2009 at 3:37 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

binve -

I am not only loving the look of your chart but also the count. You see this is why we should keep a corrective wave in tight interpretation. There are many formations a corrective wave will take and as I said above for a reason, you won't know it's done until probably it's done. :) Nature of the beast. Well done. You’re getting the hang of it.

I am really sorry that sobor didn't like my challenge and he might decide not to join us any more. :( You can't win them all, right?

Current 810 (Crazy ride today on all front)

GoodVibe

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#44) On April 01, 2009 at 3:42 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

Nice looking chart Mr. Green!

812 battle underway~~~

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#45) On April 01, 2009 at 3:49 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

GoodVibe,

Thanks! Yeah, still tying to learn the ins and outs. The only thing I don't like about my count above is wave {v}. There seems to be a lot of junk in it.

But wave {v} needs to be motive right? It is not corrective. I can't seem to find a 1-2-3-4-5 pattern in there that doesn't violate the rules (wave 4 looks like it should be the dig dip on March 25 and is entering into the territory of a would-be wave 1).

Thoughts on this? There is something that just doesn't seem quite right.

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#46) On April 01, 2009 at 4:04 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

GoodVibe and Russ,

I like this much better. But is (B) allowed to go higher than {v}/1?



Enlarge

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#47) On April 01, 2009 at 4:57 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

GoodVibe / Russ / anchak / Anybody who knows more about EW than me (i.e. Everybody):

It looks like you can have a B move over the end of a 5, if you go by the "irregular top" assumption on pp. 57-58 (Fig 1-49). Prechter does not seem to like this very much. But I can't seem to get a viable Wave {v} count any other way.

We still have a down channel. It could break out of it and things still look okay. But if we break 832, the odds that we are still in Wave 2 I think go down dramatically. Next few days are obviously very telling.

Here is a more detailed version of the current move. Anybody, please critique away! Thanks!



Enlarge

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#48) On April 01, 2009 at 5:22 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

binve ~ Looks good bud. The Flat- correction count option with irregular top. I read the same pages as well in the Elliott book to see if B can be higher than 5. Also we should be looking for a 5 count down on C then. I'm still inbetween on what will unfold as for wave 2. It is interesting to work it out as we go though. I think it's part of the learning required.

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#49) On April 01, 2009 at 5:29 PM, tahoestock (35.65) wrote:

binve.....nice chart; easy to read.  Am I wrong or shouldn't the 2(a) wave down be a 5-wave rather than an abc-wave?  Just for the record, and I'm probably wrong, but I'm in the camp that this is the third wave of wave 3 of wave A (wave 2 being done).  At worst I'm long early, but will scale in at the Fibs if wrong.  Thanks again binve....I pay close attention to your other blog too.  

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#50) On April 01, 2009 at 5:31 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

binve - This wave looks like a flat to me but we will never now yet. Your entire charts are similar to mine (last one) in way or another. As long as d doesn't top c, this count still in.

By the way we can make double flat, that's another 10 days of going no where. I don't see how we can run 3 UP with all that overbought conditions.

everybody - Keep an eye on the volume, if it doesn't pick up, then bears are good. If it pick up but negatively, then we have Zig Zag DOWN first. If volume stays flat or low, then chances we will burn some of the overbought conditions here until the bears give up or even join the rally. All in all, good work. And now, you know, it's fine for B to top 1. You got it from the book, right?

You know, if I just can know when 1 really ended, I could make sense of this. Ugh!

I hope you all have a good night. Hope to see you all at 9PM tonight to unveil my new Cap for only the next 90 days.

GoodVibe

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#51) On April 01, 2009 at 5:41 PM, columbia1 (30.27) wrote:

Binve- Page 89, Corrective waves, Flat, guidelines, -"Wave B usually retraces between 100 and 138% percent of wave A.", Notes, When wave B is more then 105 percent as long as wave A and wave C ends beyond the end of wave  A, the entire formation is called an expanded flat."

This is one way I think it might be possible to have a higher high. There is more info on page 46, Figures 1-33 through 1-37, the pic 1-37 is a good pic showing wave B going further then wave 5

Unfortunately that would also mean we just started Wave 3 up.

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#52) On April 01, 2009 at 5:57 PM, binv271828 (< 20) wrote:

RussWild, Thanks man. Yeah, Wave 2 (if it is indeed Wave 2, and I tend to think it is) has a few options for playing out

tahoestock, I am going under the assumption that Wave 2 will end up being an flat or an expanded flat. If that is the case, than the A-B-C subwaves will be 3-3-5. I hear you about Wave 2 being over and that we are in Wave 3.  It is certainly a possibility. 

On the daily chart I just don't buy it though. We are still relatively over bought. We have rallied >20% to hit the resistance at ~845. We haven't really consoldiated enough ot burn off the overbought. And we made the first real punch through the 50 day MA while it is still sloping down. All of that screams weakness at me and I think at least a 38% retracement is in order (we have only done about 25% so far.

I could be way off, but after the conversation with anchak earlier, I looked at the charts and thought about the situation, and that's what I think. I am still in my short and will hold them (uncomfortably) until we break through that resistance zone or until we retest 770.

Thanks for all of your thoughts! Especially if it is a dissenting one (which are way more valuable) :). And thanks for keeping up with my blog! I really appreciated your feedback in it!

GoodVibe4Ever , Yeah, our charts are similar, I am definitely using yours as a starting point :) But you can see me sentiments above, I think we are seeing the situation similarly. Volume is such a tricky thing. It seems like for the S&P it gets reported in a delayed fashion which tends to skew some of the move interpretations.

I check Google Finance mostly for S&P volume. Which source do you find tends to give the mostl reliable volume numbers for the S&P intraday? Thanks man!

columbia1, Awesome, thanks for that clarification! Yeah definitely see that in the figures. It is funny, I was flipping back and forth in the book so many times today :)

And I hear you on Wave 3, that is certainly a very viable possibility. Thanks!

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#53) On April 01, 2009 at 6:21 PM, mkrm (< 20) wrote:

Guys-

If I may.  GV gave us a hint that fits so far.  A combination or Double Three (EWP pgs. 52 & 53).  If this holds, the first part of the combination is an Expanded Flat (a) (b) (c) of {a}, the second is (a) (b) (c) of {b} which is not yet completed, and the third part of the combination is anybodies guess at this point.

Mike

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#54) On April 01, 2009 at 6:59 PM, tahoestock (35.65) wrote:

binve…you’re right of course; I stand corrected.  I use oscillators to help me identify when waves are ending so I have waves 1 & 2 ending earlier.  I’m usually early on a trend but conversely, rarely late.  One of the things I have learned is that TA needs to be flexible in interpretation – I have seen overbought markets become more overbought, STO and MACD at extremes for weeks, and waves truncate faster than I can plan for.  That said, most times I don’t worry about the count as long as I get the impulse waves right.  Thanks for your help; it’s much appreciated.

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#55) On April 01, 2009 at 7:04 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

The new lounge is open. See you there!

GoodVibe

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#56) On April 01, 2009 at 7:33 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

tahoestock, Now, let's not go too far about me being right, I could be way off :). Yeah, EW is very new to me and I am still getting the hang of it. But if I go back to my old TA toolbox, this rally still looks overbought. The health of the overall larger advance makes much more sense if we consolidate at 770 at least (I would rather see 750 personally).

Of course I would like to unload my shorts for a better price, but more importantly I want to go long 100%, and I will only do that if we consolidate, build a good base and bust through 850 from a place of strength. 

And the S&P on a daily chart looks far from strong right now.

And so when I look at EW, the pattern I am charting is a plausible one (the counts are not invalid) and jives with what my other indicators tell me.

And I appreciate the thanks. Very much. But I think I am much more indebted to all of you guys :) Thanks!

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#57) On April 01, 2009 at 9:20 PM, mattskin (96.55) wrote:

binve -

I generally follow your chart, but one question:  What did you do in wave {1} {v}?  Are you missing a peak between your 3 and 4 in that section?

I have started to dig into the EWP book you all are referencing, this seems at least as much art as analytics...

 Thanks.

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#58) On April 01, 2009 at 10:07 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

With the futures up so much right no and asia on fire. I think I will be wrong with this, but I took a stab at the 3mo chart..... Just playing around and thought I would share so don't take this serious.

SPX-3mo

SPX-3mo

Enlarge

**Normal Disclaimer, This is not advice and read at your own risk!!!!*********************

~Happy Hunting~

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#59) On April 02, 2009 at 9:26 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Alert - The futrues closed strong and chances are great now that wave 2 ended Monday. Watch for a new high as confirmation that wave 3 is underway. What you should do with this? As I always say, it's your choice and your plan.

I will reduce my leftover short positions in a possible pull back after the open (if there will be one) and add selective long side to my current one that I see to have a chance not to retreat as much if we decided to pull back (which has a weak support now after this push in the morning).

I hope this added some value to your thinking.

GoodVibe

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#60) On April 02, 2009 at 9:32 AM, binve (28.36) wrote:

All,

Here is a cleaned up chart. I moved the beginning to March 6 so that the percentage indicators at the bottom coincide with the start of the rally (more meaningful percentages). I also moved the Fib lines down from the top of (b) to the (what I am calling) top of 1. And I am also showing the alternate count if we are in Wave 3.

UPDATE - I just read GoodVibes comment before posting. So this chart may be irrelevant :)

mattskin 

I cleaned up some of the number positioning so I think it looks cleaner. Let me know if this doesn't make sense. But notice that wave (5), {v}, and 1 all terminate together at the same point (all degrees of trend moving together)

Comments please!



Enlarge

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#61) On April 02, 2009 at 9:39 AM, missmalibu (< 20) wrote:

Wouldnt a S&P 832 today (if it stops there) ..be a double top which is bearish?   We also experienced a big gap down the other day that if you study the charts usually results in a big wave down within a week or so.  Any opinions on this?  Still have some shorts, becuase I just don't believe all this moving the goal post economics is giving us a realistic foundation for this market.  Alot of illusion in collective thinking going on.

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#62) On April 02, 2009 at 9:54 AM, kstarich (90.06) wrote:

Binve

I think #3

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#63) On April 02, 2009 at 9:55 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Chart update

Live Chart. If any one have time please capture and post.
Current 831.93

Today's current high @ 831.93 or little bit more could be either X for those who knows about flat waves or 3 of 3 of A

BRB

GoodVibe

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#64) On April 02, 2009 at 10:07 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

I am not a long buyer here. THANK YOU! I really can't find something that I can trust here. Just to let you know.

I never chase. That doesn't mean they can't go further from here. Oh! They can. It just mean I never chase out of fear of missing. It's a bad setup for my taste.

I am thinking of cleaning my whole balance sheet. Long and shorts, raise cash, and wait for a better setup. Didn't do much yet but will have to choose something by the close. I'll keep you posted if anything happened.

I hope this added value to your thinking.

Current 834

GoodVibe

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#65) On April 02, 2009 at 10:10 AM, columbia1 (30.27) wrote:

GV' chart

ENLARGE

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#66) On April 02, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Sobornost (< 20) wrote:

It's April 2nd people, he's not joking!

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#67) On April 02, 2009 at 10:18 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Chart Update:

SP Wave A

Enlarge

Current 834.93

GoodVibe

 

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#68) On April 02, 2009 at 10:29 AM, cubswin08 (31.10) wrote:

GV-  Current 834   Wave 2 often retraces most of Wave 1.  You are calling this a break of 834 or are we going to retrace?  I'm set up for a retrace to 750.  Sounds like you are prognosticating that it isn't going to happen.   Cubs

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#69) On April 02, 2009 at 10:31 AM, MastiffFool (< 20) wrote:

Good Morning Everyone,

Looking at a 100 day daily chart of the S&P, it looks like a pretty well formed inverted head & shoulders. Am I looking at this correctly?

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#70) On April 02, 2009 at 10:33 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Thanks Columbia! For the X I mentioned above in #63, you could see how this scenario will play, check last chart in comment 1. Also for comment #64, I don't want anyone to get confused because I posted before the open on the lounge that I will add long to select longs but when I saw the tape behavior, I couldn't trust it and thought to communicate this decisions here for all.

I never buy overbought condition no matter what NEWS they will try to convince me with. MTM plans; G20 sound bites, Fed news not actions, etc. are things that I will never trade. If someone know how to trade this, good for them and I wish them all the best.

The chart above is official as well as the last one in comment 1.

Current 830.68

GoodVibe

I'll be in the lounge. No more updates today. See you there.

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#71) On April 02, 2009 at 11:44 AM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

Hmmm...check out page 83 in the Prechter book, which should be labeled Figure 2-16, DJIA Hourly 1978.

Does anyone else think that the pattern (see chart in post #67) since {1} has been unfolding eerily similarly to the waves 3 and 4 on the chart of page 83?

To my naked eye, the similarities appear striking, in which case this would seem to be a complex flat.

Thoughts?

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#72) On April 02, 2009 at 12:10 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

All,

Instead of hogging GoodVibe's blog with a bunch of opinion and charts, I put together a new post: Why I think the rally over the last 3 days stinks

Feel free to check it out.

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#73) On April 02, 2009 at 12:17 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

I might have an alternate count here and i'm not charting for hopes here. this looks exactly like figure 1.19 pp38 (Expanding Diagonal Triangle.

Just mark up another option. I'm still clueless what wave we are in. Wave 3 is very possible, but I still full SDS and not going to sell at this high today.

 SPX15day

Enlarge

What do you guys thing?

****DISCLAIMER - Read at your own risk******

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#74) On April 02, 2009 at 12:38 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

Russ, my overriding thought is that ending diagonals, although expanding, still seem to have some sort of overall slant. In this case, the slant should be upward, but this move just looks, well, flat.

Personally, I'm leaning toward a complex flat.  But what do I know? :)

Cabot

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#75) On April 02, 2009 at 12:45 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

I am holding on my naked shorts today as well. Last spot! Thanks Russ and Cabo for the great input and outlook.

Current 844.43

GoodVibe

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#76) On April 02, 2009 at 12:46 PM, jimmybroderick (32.79) wrote:

Cabot,

What does a complex flat typically mean in a market like this?  Break up (since we are in an up trend?).  Break down to retrace before the continued rise?  Curious what it means.  The EW practitioner thought we'd go flat and consolidate a little before retesting the 832 and 7950.  Both have been cracked today.  It could be flat in nature, but we are creating new highs.  What does it all mean in TA?

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#77) On April 02, 2009 at 1:43 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

Jimmy, first, a disclaimer: Take anything I say with a grain of salt.  Along with most everyone else, I'm very new to this and still just learning.  Moreover, I haven't dedicated myself to it the way that Russ has (due to time constraints and such), and I have no money invested either way...not yet satisfied that I know enough to start throwing my cash at behind my convictions.

Okay, disclaimers aside, I don't think there is any "meaning" to a complex flat.  When all is said and done, it's still a flat.  If I were going to hazard a just-for-fun guess based on my novice observations, however, I would say that this level (845-850) should represent the top of the X-wave, and that we should see a move downward to eventually somewhere between 803 and 766, which appears to be the range of the minute wave 4 within minor wave 1.  (Evidently, corrections often -- but not always -- end within the range of the fourth subwave of the motive wave that immediately precedes the correction.)  And that will be the end of minor wave 2.

GV and/or Russ, how'd I do?

Cabot

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#78) On April 02, 2009 at 4:07 PM, PrestonCheek (88.98) wrote:

SPX

Enlarge

I don't know how good this count is but I really think we are fixing to take off for the 900 mark after the next correction. I got stopped out of SRS and still have fAZ and will take my gains around the 820 mark. I will pick back up FAS and TNA and ride them up.

Again my chart is only me trying to get more involved here, please do not take that as advice.

Comments though are welcome.

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#79) On April 02, 2009 at 4:15 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

GoodVibe, Russ, anchak, Preston, sobor, columbia, cabot, and Everybody:

Here is my interepretation of the most likely count. I think the high today completed wave {b} of 2. I think wave to is a 3-3-5 and is turning into an expanded flat. I also think the rest of the price action today completed (1) and (2) of {c} of 2. Wave {c} of 2 should be a 1-2-3-4-5. And since {2} of {c} of 2 was a simple correction, wave {4} should be more complex.

And like GV said, after everybody puts their charts up tonight, we can debate the movement and see if we can offer everybody the most likely count and the most likely alternate count.

Thanks!



Enlarge

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#80) On April 02, 2009 at 4:27 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

GoodVibe, Russ, anchak, Preston, sobor, columbia, cabot, and Everybody:

---- CORRECTED VERSION -----

(My 1 and (b) had wandered up, I hate it when that happens :) )

Here is my interepretation of the most likely count. I think the high today completed wave {b} of 2. I think wave to is a 3-3-5 and is turning into an expanded flat. I also think the rest of the price action today completed (1) and (2) of {c} of 2. Wave {c} of 2 should be a 1-2-3-4-5. And since {2} of {c} of 2 was a simple correction, wave {4} should be more complex.

And like GV said, after everybody puts their charts up tonight, we can debate the movement and see if we can offer everybody the most likely count and the most likely alternate count.

Thanks!



Enlarge

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#81) On April 02, 2009 at 5:09 PM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

BInve.... I like this chart...can you put a live link to it.....hopefully I'll be able to annotate....otherwise ....I'll just work with excel and put my stuff in it.

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#82) On April 02, 2009 at 5:22 PM, PrestonCheek (88.98) wrote:

Anchak, how do you put a live link to the charts?

You can gladly use my account if you need to, thats not a problem.

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#83) On April 02, 2009 at 5:22 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

anchak, Thanks man!

Here is the "linkable-version". I have no idea if you will be able to view the intraday data and see all of my annotations. Do you have a StockCharts account?

Give this a shot and let me know if it works.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$SPX&p=30&st=2009-03-06&en=2009-04-15&id=p75053261918&a=164534889

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#84) On April 02, 2009 at 5:25 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

I'm of the mind that the market is tracing out a double three, the occurence of which "appears to be the flat correction's way of extending sideways action" (p. 52).  The spirit of that makes sense, since after the recent fast move upward, the market needs a little time to catch its breath before minor wave 3 begins.  I would think that a zigzag would more than likely complete the structure, since the component patterns of a double three typically alternate in form.

Anyhow, here's my chart:

ENLARGE

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#85) On April 02, 2009 at 5:39 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

I not going to bet on this count, but I'm going to put as mine for the other options have been laid out already. See if I can make a case to confuse us even more than we all are...hehe

 Fig1-19

PP 37-39. EWT "...the fifth wave of a diagonal triangle often ends in a "throw-over". i.e., a brief break of the trendline connecting the end points of waves one and three. The real-life examples in Figures 1-17 and 1-19 show throw-overs. While volume tends to deminish as a diagonal triangle of small degree progresses, the pattern alwys ends with a spike of relativly high volume when a throw-over occurs. On rare occasions, the fith subwaves falls short of it's resistance trendline.

A rising diagonal is bearish and is sually followed by a sharp decline ttracing at least back to the level where it began. A falling diagonal by the same token is bullish, usually giving rise to an upward thrust.

Fifth wave extensions, truncated fifths and diagonal tri-angles all imply the same thing: dramatic reversal ahead. At some turning points, two of these phenomena have occurred to-gether at differnt degrees, compounding the violence of the next move in the opposite direction." 

 SPX15day

Enlarge, Live

Hummmmmmmm, makes you think doesn't it...lol

*******************READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*********

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#86) On April 02, 2009 at 5:42 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

Sorry, grabbed the wrong chart.. here is an updated one.

 SPX15day

Enlarge

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#87) On April 02, 2009 at 5:43 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

Russ, that is definitely the most interesting interpretation I have seen yet!!! Hmmmm..... That's just so crazy, it might be right!

This is going to be a fun discussion :)

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#88) On April 02, 2009 at 5:45 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

Russ, Very outside the box. I LOVE IT!!!

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#89) On April 02, 2009 at 5:50 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

Russ, that is kewl!

Guys, what's the difference between a complex flat (double/triple three) and an expanded flat?  I ask because my count sure looks the same as binve's if you replace my 'W' with an 'A' and my 'X' with a 'B'.  And after again reading the sections on both, I'm still not entirely clear on the difference.

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#90) On April 02, 2009 at 5:56 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

cabot, I was just thinking the exact same thing! I was reading the sections to find the difference. And I don't really see one :)

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#91) On April 02, 2009 at 6:05 PM, mkrm (< 20) wrote:

More food for thought.   Adding to Cabot's theory.  If we are in a Double Three whose final combination is a 5 count down, we should end up at the same place as Binve's chart (at the fib numbers).  The concern is should the final combination turn into a triangle, we would never reach the fib numbers.

I wish I could chart that, but I'm not up to speed yet.

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#92) On April 02, 2009 at 6:14 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

binve - Weird, right?  Maybe GV can shed some light on it.

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#93) On April 02, 2009 at 6:16 PM, napenda (< 20) wrote:

could you that are smarter than i tell me what to do with all my srs i bought today ..between 45 and 49 .. do i take a loss for fear of a continued rally or hold for the next pull back?

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#94) On April 02, 2009 at 6:27 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

cabot, very weird man.

But here is my rationalization for the expanded flat call: (pp. 46)

..." Far more common is the variety we call an expanded flat, which contains a price extreme beyond that of the preceding impluse wave. Elliott called this variation an "irregular" flat, although the word is inappropriate as they are actually far more common tha "regular" flats. "

The structure also fits the price action so far. The B wave is much larger than the A wave and the top of B goes higher than the start of A.

This is a good discussion! What do you guys think about your calls and why?

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#95) On April 02, 2009 at 6:57 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

binve - Ah, I know what happened.  My original chart had the termination of minor wave 1 earlier.  And the only way I could make wave 2 right was to introduce a triple flat.  Then I decided that the odds of a triple flat occurring were pretty low, so I moved the end of 1 up to where GV (and you) had it.  Once I did that, wave 2 became really just an expanded flat, but by then I had complex corrections on the brain, hence the mislabeling. So the chart I posted earlier was actually identical to yours, or rather it would have been had I labeled the flat correctly.

But just for the heck of it, here was my first attempt, with the shorter minor 1 wave and triple flat.  It's almost certainly wrong, but it looks cool!

ENLARGE

 

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#96) On April 02, 2009 at 6:59 PM, columbia1 (30.27) wrote:

This is my best attempt, much like the others, I did try to make a new wave 3 in the chart but the counts were impulses where they should of been corrections, so I believe we still are in wave 2. This is a Zig-zag pattern found in Figure 1-26. It fit all the rules and guidelines.

spx5

ENLARGE

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#97) On April 02, 2009 at 7:04 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

By the way, ran across this in Prechter, p. 68:

"[I]n lethargic or choppy markets, particularly in corrections, wave structures are more likely to be complex and slow to develop.  In these cases, a longer term chart often effectively condenses the action into a form that clarifies the pattern in progress."

If you zoom out to the daily chart, it looks pretty clearly to be an expanded flat that is currently developing.

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#98) On April 02, 2009 at 7:06 PM, columbia1 (30.27) wrote:

Correction: That is a double Zig-zag, found in the bottom of Fig. 1-26

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#99) On April 02, 2009 at 7:08 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

And here's another nugget, same paragraph p. 69:

"[C]omplexity and lethargy are two of the most frustrating occurrences for the analyst ... The authors highly recommend that during such periods you take some time off from the market[.]  You can't 'wish' the market into action; it isn't listening.  When the market rests, do the same."

So maybe we should all just go out and grab a beer!

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#100) On April 02, 2009 at 7:09 PM, binv271828 (< 20) wrote:

cabotb21, Gotcha man :) But the alternate count is fun to look at! Hey, you never know what will end up being right :)

columbia1, Nice chart man! I see, you are connecting it up so that C (Y) ends in truncation of the overall correction. Interesting. Why do you think that? Just curious and just discussing. 

All: This is a great discussion! Seriously, I am making my call, because it seems right to me. But we are all making different calls because we all see things differently. I, for one, would love (and my learning of EW will definitely benefit) to hear your guys opinions of your charts and why you think they will unfold the way you do.

This is great!

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#101) On April 02, 2009 at 7:13 PM, murugan2 (< 20) wrote:

I ask this with the utmost respect: does anyone have a chart that shows where we might be going if we are in fact going up from here?  I've seen lots of possible  3s in charts here (such as #80) and am wondering, how that might progress.  It might be useful to know in such an instance where pullbacks might be.  Most of these upside moves seem to be depicted as a straight line up, which we know wont be the shape in that case.  I just am concerned that for weeks now the only likely direction depicted has been down, and Mr.Market has had very different ideas indeed.

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#102) On April 02, 2009 at 7:15 PM, binv271828 (< 20) wrote:

cabotb21, "So maybe we should all just go out and grab a beer!" . LOL! That sounds about right, right now!

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#103) On April 02, 2009 at 7:28 PM, columbia1 (30.27) wrote:

Binve, At first I thought we were in a expanded flat because wave B was larger than wave A, but in a Zig-zag, Wave B cannot be larger than wave A. But with this Double Zig-zag wave A and B are all part of one wave,W. And a Zig-zag can not be expanding so the way I laid the support line it will be flat. All by the rules. (I hope)  ;)

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#104) On April 02, 2009 at 7:31 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

I'm inclined to agree with binve - my vote is for an expanded flat.

murugan - Your question is more than fair, although I do have to say that to this point Mr. Market hasn't gone anywhere that GoodVibe hasn't thought he might potentially go.  (I know that makes me sound like a groupie, but I'm just stating fact -- GoodVibe mentioned on numerous occasions that 840 would be his hit and run spot.)  I do disagree with you, though, in your assertion that if we go up from here, it might be useful to know where the pullbacks could be. On the contrary, it would be incredibly useful!

But seriously, if the market does go up from here and we are in fact in wave 3, I don't think there's anyway to know how far it might go before a pullback...it's an impulse wave...it just kinda goes until it doesn't.

 

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#105) On April 02, 2009 at 7:39 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

cabotb21, @ #97: Yeah, The daily doesn't give me a clear wave, and so I zoomed down to the hourly. See my chart below. The MACD and Stochastics both say "headed down". MACD is showing some very bearish divergence, especially from this last move.

murugan2, Yeah, I was hoping to see some Wave 3 charts. But it looks like most of us so far are not of that opinion.

columbia1, Good point! I had not thought of that! Hmmm, then it seems like I have an invalid wave count. But then, don't you too? I am looking at your chart, and your wave B of (W) is larger than A of (W). 

Maybe this Wave 2 count is completely WRONG! Do you think Russ could be on to something?



Enlarge

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#106) On April 02, 2009 at 7:43 PM, mattskin (96.55) wrote:

Guys, I am a newbie, but the fact that Wave B went higher than the start of Wave A in the first zig-zag was what made me think it was an expanded flat when I looked at this last night.

 Sorry for the redundancy, but this is the only value-add I have, and I didn't buy the book for nuthin'...:)

 Maybe I should have held on to TZA...

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#107) On April 02, 2009 at 7:44 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

No wait a second!!!

Okay, EW is based on fractals right! Look at columbias chart. Not look at Wave (W). What is Wave (W). IT IS AN EXPANDED FLAT!!!

So what if the expanded flat is just now playing itself out on the next degree up! ?

Wave B can be larger than A in a Flat pattern. But look at Wave B of (W). It is a properly formed ZIGZAG!.

I need to play with this a little more. But I think we are on to something!

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#108) On April 02, 2009 at 7:54 PM, columbia1 (30.27) wrote:

Binve- In my chart wave W is a expanded  flat, but over all Wave 2 is a double Zig-zag, Your counts are also OK, if it is a expanding triangle. The only difference between our charts are the ending points of wave 2.  ;)

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#109) On April 02, 2009 at 8:01 PM, cabotb21 (< 20) wrote:

You know, the more I look at the dailies, the more it looks like we may be in wave 3.  Ok, that's it.  Seeing too many things in too many places.  I'm out.  Heading down to the pub for a Young's Double Chocolate stout.  Later!

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#110) On April 02, 2009 at 8:15 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

All: Okay, here is my expanded flat within and expanded flat theory. I did the counts (but please check me!) and there are no zig-zag violations. But the B can be higher on an expanded flat. Which I believe we have.

So based on that, I am standing by my original call. Man, this discussion is awesome! I am learning so much by thinking through this!

cabotb21, mmm ..... Stout .... :)



Enlarge


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#111) On April 02, 2009 at 8:19 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

Clarfication: B can be higher and larger than A in an expanded flat.

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#112) On April 02, 2009 at 8:27 PM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

I am working on my piece.....it possibly will be as big as a blog

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#113) On April 02, 2009 at 8:40 PM, mattskin (96.55) wrote:

binve, I think Wave A of Expanding Flat 1 should be a 3-count, no?

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#114) On April 02, 2009 at 8:42 PM, columbia1 (30.27) wrote:

Binve, counts look fine, I think both charts are viable, I would prefer yours to go long with. You could also count yours as, A, B, C, D, and E., Page 91, Expanding Triangle. since each leg is longer then the previous one!!

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#115) On April 02, 2009 at 8:46 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

mattskin, LOL! Yes indeed! I was in a hurry putting that chart together. Nice catch! I will revise

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#116) On April 02, 2009 at 8:47 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

---- CORRECTION TO COMMENT #110 ----------

Thanks mattskin!



Enlarge

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#117) On April 02, 2009 at 8:48 PM, mattskin (96.55) wrote:

Also, I agree with columbia, instead of an extanded flat inside an extended flat, it would actually be an expandin triangle.  So that would basically, IMHO, be more of a bull case once we are finished with Wave E.  Your red 'a' woudl be C, red 'b' D, and we would be in the last leg...

What would the bear case be?

 

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#118) On April 02, 2009 at 8:52 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

mattskin, I belive you are right. I think the math is the same for an expanded flat within and expanded flat, vs. an expanding triangle. This is just the pattern that jumped out at me :)

Yeah, I would not be at all surprised if this morphed into an expanding triangle. Which starts going back to Russ's theory :)

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#119) On April 02, 2009 at 8:54 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

mattskin, Also thanks for all your help and comments, man. I am definitely adding you as a fave!

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#120) On April 02, 2009 at 9:01 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

Also going back to the whole fractal idea. If this is an expaded flat within an expanded flat, look how the end of wave (b) resembles wave {b} in structure. The humps on either side of the peak.

... Man, fractals are cool :)

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#121) On April 02, 2009 at 9:01 PM, mattskin (96.55) wrote:

Thanks, all.  I am LOVING this analysis...

Unfortunately, I am also starting to notice that Wave B of our first expanded flat could probably be a 5 count, which would actually prove us all wrong (page 47, Frost & Prechter)....

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#122) On April 02, 2009 at 9:02 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

Oh boy what did I miss... I'm gonna have to read through all this!

Got my B-day jack/coke in hand ready to dive right in...hehe Give me some time to review and I may have some input.

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#123) On April 02, 2009 at 9:10 PM, mattskin (96.55) wrote:

I am starting to contradict myself a little too much, so I am hitting the book again for the remainder of the night.

Russ/binve - What about what is labeled Wave (b) in Expanding Flat 1?  This could be chopped into a 5-count, and Wave (a) before it retraced quite a bit of the previous impulse wave... This 5 count actually flies against the expanded flat, no?

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#124) On April 02, 2009 at 9:28 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

RussWild, Again my man, Happy Birthday. You have definitely earned that Jack and Coke :)

mattskin, Actually I don't agree on this one. I think there is a clear a-b-c. I think c could be subdivided into a 1-2-3-4-5 (which is allowable). But I think that degree of the wave count (a-b-c) is good.

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#125) On April 02, 2009 at 9:52 PM, DanDarby (< 20) wrote:

I wish I could post my chart, but I don't know how.

 

I have a-b-c of wave 2 ending on March 31, then wave 3 beginning. I could email it to somebody if they want - dandarby at yahoo.com

 

I know we are really oversold right now, but a LARGE part of that first rally was totally oversold. I missed out on 2/3 of that first one because I was waiting for a nice pullback.

 

I hope we do dip down to 770's where people can cover their shorts, and we can add some more longs, but we should probably keep this in mind that we might be going up.

 

I guess we'll find out soon.

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#126) On April 02, 2009 at 10:14 PM, binve (28.36) wrote:

DanDarby, No problem man, here is the deal:

1) Go to www.flickr.com and sign up for a free account (easy, takes less than 3minutes)

2) Chose the picture and upload it to Flickr through the upload page.

3) After you upload the picture, there is an "all sizes" button / link. Click on that. The will give you a URL for each size pic.

4) Come back to Caps and write your comment

5) At the end of the comment, write this code:

But replace URL_TO_SMALL_PIC with the smaller picture URL from Flickr, same with the large one.

You are set!

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#127) On April 02, 2009 at 10:16 PM, RootnToot (41.23) wrote:

Russ,

I hope your birthday is one for the record books!

Cheers

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#128) On April 02, 2009 at 10:37 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

Ok, all caught up and what a great discusion indeed.

my $0.02 here.

1.) The complexity of corrective waves are almost endless. IMHO. We can glean what we will but at the end your not going to know what they are until they are done. You have to step back and identify a top and then consider a retracement with the % that a retracement to at least 38% is going to happen.

2.) That being said, where does wave 5 actually end. Leave the counts out, look at the biggest picture and wonder. It is when the push up/down is exhausted. What exhausts the top/bottom is usually a number from a bigger much bigger picture. Recall the 666 bottom from my 30 year chart... I was amazed at the exact number. I propose that wave 5 ended at the most logical "large picture". See chart here.

 SPX 1yr 6mo

Enlarge

3.) The details of an "ideal" such at Fib. EWT, Overbought/Oversold clouds the truth. And what is truth?

4.)Truth, is the spirit of any idea, belief, person where the outcome is unknown. So what is the spirit of EWT? I figure it as someone blowing up a baloon or a singer. The exhails are motives and the fast breaths in are corrective. You have to have an extended breath or deep to make a long/strong exhail. We have not taken a deep enough breath to push wave 3 up. From this chart we have a way to go.

Lets how good I am at reading people. GV is reading everything and to adding because we are exploring on our own......hehe

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#129) On April 02, 2009 at 10:44 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

                   ALL OF YOU ARE JUST AWESOM!

I’ve been watching you all with an awe and respect all this time and I didn’t want to say a thing until more of you try to put more. I believe you enjoyed it, which I hoped for. You exceeded my best wishes.

Let me tell you, TA aside, I couldn't be happier with anything more than seeing all the charts above, the deep understanding more than you think, and the productive discussion by many of you out there in very short time.

Don’t ever think that your discussion today is a small thing. It’s big and I wish it will reward you tomorrow as well as for many days and years ahead. You all cheered my heart. My soul is getting humbled and grateful for this moment. Most of you now really can go and be on their own! Fear not, you will make mistakes but you will always come back to make more right calls. It happens to the best of us. I just hope you never forget to teach another one - at least one and your return will unfold hundreds of times.

Let’s see what's the situation here:

1. We don’t know where 1 ended if it ended at all. Russ’ chart!
2. We don’t know if 2 ended if 1 already ended.
3. We don’t know if 3 started if 2 already ended.

Funny! Right? If just we didn't have money on it and the joke is gonna be on our expense. :)

What that tell us is one thing. That we simply don’t have an edge on the market and the market can go either way. Risky bussiness even more than I who fear nothing dare to put money on. If we use other TA indicators than EWP, then we’re overbought by measures and leaps but the market can stay irrational more than we can stay solvent and overbought conditions can stay this way far longer than anyone can imagine and when we pull back from where we decide to top, we might just pullback to where we are already now!

I used a lot of my emotinal capital for this trade and I don't like to ride on empty. I am not there yet and I can fight it but again one of my rules is never fight the market. I told you if they run and close decisively above my hit and run positions, I am half out to take the risk of margin off. But I will never go long here also as I said. I will stick to OUR charts here and MY plan to hit and run systematically with every push down until I am out of all my shorts as I did for my longs, have that beer as Cabo said, wait for my edge to show me the way and it will sure be on the long side, and then go aim and fire all over the place. I will not chase rewards here with no edge whatsoever but my only goal is to recover or preserve my capital invested on the short side. If gain comes, let it be. If not, live and learn! I am still up over all from all this. :) Not as much as I hoped but fair enough, I did fine and my real reward is what's happening here tonight.

This exactly describes where I am now;

"Complexity and lethargy are two of the most frustrating occurrences for the analyst ... The authors highly recommend that during such periods you take some time off from the market. You can't 'wish' the market into action; it isn't listening. When the market rests, do the same."

For my TA, I have nothing to add more than you all did! :) You covered almost every option possible and Elliott is smiling on you from his grave.

If wave 3 is up, then I suggest you don’t fight it because it’s an awesome one. That said the volume so far doesn’t fit for a 3. It’s still under wave 1 volume, which doesn’t fit wave 3. I’ll analyze more individual charts and try to find any flaws in our collective thinking (which is down) but chances we will know for sure by tomorrow or Friday. I just want to urge you even if it’s obvious down, if you don’t have an edge, rest.

Opportunities are made easier than losses and capital preservation is the first step towards prolonged profitability.

I hope this added some value to your thinking.

GoodVibe

Preston - Thanks for the chart. You are getting better by trying. Don't stop but the count doesn't adhere to any of EWP. I really can't even make sense of the two 1 there. :) Keep trying.

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#130) On April 02, 2009 at 10:45 PM, DanDarby (< 20) wrote:

Thanks binve, lets see if this works! Anyone... Let me know if this is even a valid count, thanks.

Enlarge

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#131) On April 02, 2009 at 10:47 PM, DanDarby (< 20) wrote:

Hmm, it doesn't look like my small picture worked. I think the enlarge works though. Any feedback would be great.

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#132) On April 02, 2009 at 11:01 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Dan - You have a nice count. Is this mean that 3 UP or just a flat correction.

Russ' chart in #128 is the reson why I used 840 - 850 as a hit and run target. Going over this and holding is really a deal breaker.

GoodVibe

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#133) On April 02, 2009 at 11:07 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Russ - Never read this before - the singer/balloon analogy. It's perfect. The chart is like a creature that breaths, fight, retreat, crawl, play dead, chase, etc not because it does but because it reflects people's Psychology something that most people who don't understand TA can't believe possible.

Thanks for that observation. I'll be using it from now on! :) Would you like some credit when I use it? :) I am back to work and if I have something to add, I'll do before the opening.

GoodVibe

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#134) On April 02, 2009 at 11:12 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Just one last comment .. At 12 midnight, I will raise a glass for everyone one of you who posted here tonight. Cheer brothers and sisters.

GoodVibe

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#135) On April 02, 2009 at 11:17 PM, kstarich (90.06) wrote:

Great job you guys!!

I can tell you are all perplexed.

Cabot - I think you are right.  This market is frustrated and it is time to take a break!

Nobody is winning right now.  Not the Bulls not the Bears.  It is a tug of war where neither side wants to let the other win.  THe Bulls are dead set on not letting the shorties recover and the Bears say ok fine then no party for you either!

 

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#136) On April 02, 2009 at 11:24 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

I'm not as drunk as my last post sounded. I'm just a very lazy typer..lol

I was right about GV sitting back and bathing in the knowledge that has came forward tonight :) I feel the same GV.. It's scary how good people got this week! I think it's all coming together with the breath of options and people's diffenent opinions makes us all stronger!

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#137) On April 02, 2009 at 11:38 PM, MastiffFool (< 20) wrote:

I am amazed at what you guys have come up with here tonight. GV, you must surely feel that all your time teaching EW was worth while and rewarding for you.

I haven't received my EW book yet, so I am at a disadvantage and far behind you all. But Looking at Russ's big picture chart, I have to think that it's a real possibility that wave 1 is not over and will go as far up as where wave (5) started at 943.85, if not up to the next resistance level if this wave goes sideways for a while to burn off some of it's overbought condition.

Also it seems we are in a fairly well defined upward channel with an inverted head and shoulders on the daily 100 day chart.

 If my scenario is totally off base, please tell me I'm nuts!  :-)

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#138) On April 02, 2009 at 11:53 PM, RussWild (< 20) wrote:

GV~~ Couple of things. I posted this a while back and I know you over looked it and I really wanted you to read it. I think you would get the biggest kick out of psychology of human behaivor as it relates to the markets. I'm not looking for recognition, but thought this is right up your ally (way off the typical blog on CAPs). My very first blog here on CAPS... HERE

As far as my analogy, I'll think my faviorite quote will do the best explination for me...

"you proceed from a false assumption, I am a Vulcan, I have no ego to bruise"

I can't change the color of font here...errrrrr but I had one last thing to say. As someone posted I took to ETW like a duck to water and that is only becuase of my own personal studies to human behaivor and this theory (EWT) has brought the only rational concept to the markets since i've been studing it. My wife is getting her PHD in depth psychology and I've been as much or more involved in these studies as her. You cannot understand the markets with out understanding human behavior in my mind. My next evolution is the understanding of the rules of music in the market... and that will be my next level of understanding....

 

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#139) On April 02, 2009 at 11:56 PM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

It took me a while to get my thoughts organized.

I am refraining to make this a separate blog – because I feel this is pure conjecture – and I am not comfortable putting things in my blog unless I  have a fair degree of certainty associated with it.

 

All right lets get down to it. First of all thanks to binve for the source charts and Prestoncheek for the kind offer.

 

Slide 1

ENLARGE

First  we start with the 2 points (iii) and (iv) from Binve’s chart as I have marked in RED. Clearly this is a corrective wave and of decent size to be classified as a full sub-wave within  {1} UP.

Once we are done with this – give {1} is a motive/impulse 5 wave pattern -  the question  is whether the 2 ovals are (i)-(ii) or as Binve put (iii)-(iv). They are the latter simply because if it was (i)-(ii) – then (iii) would be the part above this point – however clearly the strongest UP movement happened before this point – and that is a classic sign of the 3rd wave coming off a bottom.

Once we have this at our disposal we can move ahead to do the following:

Table 1

ENLARGE 

We take up the length of (iv) and start computing Fib ratios of 3 candidate end-points of {1}. Since its part of the motive wave ( I had earlier shared one analysis to show how strongly were the Fib’s adhered to in this whole BEAR)  - its logical to check this.

Based on the numbers ( look at the conjugates too – if you are unfamiliar is simple the reciprocal – and it has a special meaning vis-à-vis Fibs – which are 2 conjugate irrational solutions to a quadratic equation)

4.23 stands out ( it’s a valid Fib conjugate) and the 0.25 is a also common in markets. However we will simply move on and reserve inferences at this point.

Once we have established (iii) – we look at the 5th wave of sub-wave (iii) – BIG DISTINCTION – don’t confuse with (v) – we didn’t call it yet. This wave was from 749.93-803.24. ( ie end of (iii) as marked in the slide) . We compute the length and then take it to the end-point of 3 of (iii) ( 774.53). We take a difference to see what the min length of (iii) ought to be ( This is that the 3rd is never the shortest – and possibly the largest in a strong motive) – and this yields 721 as min starting point . We find a clear corrective right there – however its too small for it to be called a (ii) – and this leads us to RECONFIRM the (i) and (ii) calls on the chart. Maybe redundant but necessary.

 

Table 2

ENLARGE

OK , now we will use (iii) ( Properly established) to guesstimate the end of {1} with the 3 possible end-points

 First we look at the Fib ratios of (iii)/Total Wave {1}  at the 3 points. Its really no surprise to see the 3rd wave – be WAVE EQUAL to the full {1} ( ratios are above 0.74) [ This happened in Oct 2008 in reverse also]. Of particular interest is 832.98 which is close to the .75 range.

This end-point compared on a FULL Down-cycle Wave retrace of Fibs – actually has the best conformance. Both on the 943.85 ( close to .6)  and the 877 ( close to .74, actually .78 again!) one called by GV.

Also if you look at the Ideal FIB levels computed from the 2 starting points – it becomes obvious how they have been key pivot points. And given 838 shows up in the 943 list – 832.98 emerges as a strong contender.

ENLARGE

 

Market expansion

Last but not the least – learnt this from Constance Brown’s book – its simply to compare adjacent trough-to-peaks patterns and see if the market is losing ground. Unfortunately looks like market has maintained bullish formation , and of course with today’s rally – gained a sharper slope ( more towards 90 degree)

POSSIBLE SCENARIOS

 823.65: Call is obvious I am afraid.  The BLUE labeling is playing out currently.  

A KEY ratio:

(823.65 – 779.81) /( 823.65 – 766.20) [ ie  A-B-C corrective compared to 5 of {1}] = 0.76!

We should have a corrective from this point – but to be theorizing about it simply justifying your own belief ( Folks, please refrain from calling Expanded FLATs etc….. there are certain elements of EWT which are clearly post-facto , and hence CYA ) Yes, it may very well turn out that way – but to call that a-priori, tough.

The reason why I am saying this is because – “3rd waves in a Bull market are a beauty to behold” – right? Tell me how many of those would it need to be on technical overbought condition ( most technicals are very very short term) for it to be a thing of beauty ?

832.98: This is a better probabilistic scenario.

There’s still that problem with an  a-b-c completion ( 832.98-783 yesterday) . That and the immediate FULL retrace is what prompted some of my decisions.

The other issue is a breach of 838 today ( it still played around big in that channel – giving credence to resistance) and ended the day on a corrective downtrend pattern.

This holds some hope for the bears – but if its gets quagmired  between 805-810  , then  I would suggest covering.

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#140) On April 03, 2009 at 12:00 AM, binve (28.36) wrote:

Russ, Awesome chart and comments in #128. That looks great.

Goodvibe, Look what you did man, you created a bunch of EW monsters! LOL! Seriously, thank you for taking the time and believing in us with EW. Before you, I used so many TA tools but never EW. I thought EW was "voodoo". I can't believe how ignorant I was for so long! All you did was just patiently show us what you already knew, and everybody here would gravitate to it. That is a very cool thing :) Thank you.

Dan, Yeah the img didn't show up, but the link works! (Hey 50% is better than 0%):)

Everybody, I looked back at my last chart and found a minor error (doesn't affect the larger count), but the corrected chart is below.

Yeah, we just need to be patient while the correction grinds / or the Wave 3 rally takes us through the resistance layer. I personally think we are still in Wave 2 (most likely scenario in my opinion). Either way I am not buying or selling until we get more resolution. I am sitting 40% short / 60% cash, per the statments in my blog post. Watching and waiting is the best call for me right now :)



Enlarge

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#141) On April 03, 2009 at 12:01 AM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

Oops wrong links.....

 Slide 1

Table 1

 Table 2

Market Expansion

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#142) On April 03, 2009 at 12:12 AM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

GV says....

1. We don’t know where 1 ended if it ended at all. Russ’ chart!

I have to disagree....if 1 is still on....then we have VERY STRONG upwave due...because we would be in (iii) of 1....the 805-768 is the pivot point...there's no question about it.

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#143) On April 03, 2009 at 12:20 AM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

columbia1

This chart makes a lot of sense ...the 797 is the correct barrier given the present situation.

However, my expectation is much more volatility either way - the expansion theme is correct I think - but its going to be ugly moves in both directions with FULL retraces abounding - essentially nightmarish to trade

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#144) On April 03, 2009 at 12:20 AM, binve (28.36) wrote:

anchak, Nice man! Yeah, I am still reading the Fib ratio analysis section of the book. So I am catching only a of what you are saying :)

823.65: Call is obvious I am afraid.  The BLUE labeling is playing out currently. 

Which is the blue labeling?  It sounds like you also think that there will be corrective wave coming.

We should have a corrective from this point – but to be theorizing about it simply justifying your own belief ( Folks, please refrain from calling Expanded FLATs etc….. there are certain elements of EWT which are clearly post-facto , and hence CYA ) Yes, it may very well turn out that way – but to call that a-priori, tough.

I hear you man :) But you can see from my chart above, that we already have one expanded flat in the pattern (if I am calling the pattern correctly). But yes, I am making the distinction that this is a posssible / probable pattern and not anything "for sure". But it is always a good reminder :)

Nice work man! I man very interested in fib ratio analysis, I can't wait to start doing analysis like this too :)

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#145) On April 03, 2009 at 6:27 AM, IIcx (64.24) wrote:

Interesting piece on the market bottom and the 150 day MA.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30015070 

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#146) On April 03, 2009 at 9:45 AM, IIcx (64.24) wrote:

Morning GV,

This should be a really interesting session. I saw your post about 810 support. Should we post here for the day on on the top 200 post?

Regards, IIcx 

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#147) On April 03, 2009 at 3:23 PM, anchak (99.76) wrote:

WARNING!

I am going to sound an alarm here and be as harsh as I can to shake things up

...... I think most of us are being remiss in doing our homework....... and more prone to quote passages which conform to our thinking.

I am going to cross-post this across both blogs. Also pardon - but I am not a StockCharts subscriber - so I had to do this of Yahoo! Finance.....

ENLARGE 

Key observations
=================

(1) We are still in {1}
(2) 3 of {1} is NOT A BEAUTY TO BEHOLD! Infact you would not know a 3 from 2 unless it came up and bit you ...... ( look at my slide and also check out the 1974 bottom - unfortunately these are only 2 instances and hence not a statistically significant sample ....but that's the problem with recessionary bottom)

(3) I expect {1} to go as high as 877 .....look at slides....essentially a double top formation for the Bear to come back full force in {2} .....also watch the Bollingers....

(4) {2} will be UGLY! True EWT style.....at least 61.8% retrace.....meaning we are looking at 750.

(5) Look at the time scale ( this bear is a warped speed compress express) - but possibly over 4-6 weeks.

I suggest we continue to analyze this over the weekend.

 

Comments welcome!

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#148) On April 03, 2009 at 3:39 PM, tahoestock (35.65) wrote:

anchak...if {1} could be a 200-point wave from the bottom (666), wave {3} theoretically, running 200 points from 750, what does the full ABC correction (if it runs 5,3,5) look like?  Seems high to me.

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#149) On April 04, 2009 at 2:39 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Everybody - You've been putting a lot of good stuff out there in the last two blogs and we should bring them upfront and together in one blog. I opened a chart lab blog. I'll ask you all to post your final charts and analysis one more time there so we can get things together in one place. Also we will use Mary's new lounge as the new lounge. Thanks.

GoodVibe

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#150) On April 09, 2009 at 1:15 PM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

As I've been avoiding any count of late, I will not trade any counts but will play defensive (will not go long for sure but also will not push my shorts). When in doubt, set it out.

Here's a chart that I believe should resolve to the downside even if we top this wedge a little. It's an end formation.

It's not an advice to trade on it.

Current trade

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#151) On April 13, 2009 at 8:23 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

Good Morning everybody -

I hope your holiday was pleasant and joyful.

Here is my count and two scenarios for this week until I get thing into a post. I hope it will add some value to your thinking.

Best Count 04.13.09

Enlarge

See you after the bell. Stay positive, be happy, do good, and you will win.

GoodVibe

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#152) On April 13, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Mary953 (23.42) wrote:

Okay, GV, something I don't often say.  I understand your chart - all of it.  Thanks much!

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#153) On April 14, 2009 at 3:49 AM, GoodVibe4Ever (99.08) wrote:

           ...............           Notice       .................

This post is closed for comments. Please see the new post here.

 GoodVibe

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