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rofgile (96.99)

Good riddance! Talk of expatriation from US makes me sick.

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26

July 12, 2009 – Comments (38)

 

A recent poster had a blog something like this:

 

..." Despite all of those things I still have a responsibility to protect my family, and any choices that I make have to protect the family's safety, security, belief system, and prosperity. I've been thinking long and hard about those 4 things and until today the thing I looked at the most was the family belief system. We simply had to be in a place we people that agreed with us. Then it hit me! That was the biggest problem all along! In fact most of the world's problems are because we can't globally agree on a belief system. Not only that, but we can't agree locally on a belief system either. It's not a problem that is just here in the US, it's a problem everywhere. Politics, religion, education, economics, etc...

Once I had that revelation, the little light bulb turned on. I know this sounds Libertarian of me, but I'm  concentrating on family sovereignty. Now before all the Libertarians jump in to pat me on the back, I don't care what position any government takes in the world about anything. They can repress, regulate, control, oppress, or progress their population as much as they want to. My family is only going to choose to participate to the point that it benefits us and our beliefs. I'm not going to get too specific, because this is the internet and I'm sure the government probably has this post on their radar, but I'm going off grid. I'm getting 3 passports from 3 other countrie. I'm buying a boat in a 4th country through an anonymous corporation. I'm setting up yet another country as an internet presence where I'll do business and I'm banking out of about 4 more countries.When something I don't like about any of those countries bothers me, I'm cutting them off and moving to another one. I'm going to renounce my US citizenship, but pay all my taxes before I leave. (including the penalty for expatriating.) If I have any luck, they will understand that I'm leaving due to poor politics and not as a tax dodge, but if they don't, they can decide to ban me from the country. Then I will be unable to visit my extended family. It's a risk I have to take at this point"..

 

Things have gotten tougher here?  Sounds like you are still making hundreds of thousands a year, if you can afford to buy a large boat in another country.

 

In the United States, we once had a leader who said: "Ask not what your country can do for you.  Ask what you can do for your country." - Maybe this was just a sound bite to you when you were growing up, but it still means something to me today.

 

You should think about what he said.  Too many Americans these days say something akin to... "If Bush gets reelected, I'm moving to Canada" or now I think it is more along the line of "Obama is too awful, things are beyond control and its time to escape".

The truth is that you are still making a good living, better than 95% of the world.  The truth is that you are making huge drama out of small issues.  For all its problems, the United States is still a wonderful country and place to live.  Right now you are living in a country that is not involved in any domestic wars, where it is possible to have a nice home, your family can have any religion, etc.

Let me list the ways things could be worse for you, if you lived anywhere else in the world:

A) If you lived in Iran, you might be getting tortured or executed because of your text messaging.

B) If you lived in China, your minority culture might be getting pushed out of you homeland and assimilated by the government as part of an evil plan.

C) If you lived in the mostly government-free Pitcairn Islands, you would probably have been part of a system of institutional raping by your older family members.

D) If you lived in many African countries, you might have to routinely bribe the police/officials.  Otherwise you might find yourself in a very nasty prison cell without any lawyer to help you.

E) if you lived in Italy, you would have Silvio Berlusconi for a Prime Minister.  This man owns 50% of the countries media, he is highly corrupt and is accused of sleeping with prostitutes (and they have some of his parties on film...) - and trying to sleep with a minor (which is why his wife divorced him)...   

 

I could probably go on and on... 

 

Anyways, if you really think "things are just too bad here".  Fine, go, we don't need you in the United States. We need people who are creative, who are not solely concerned with themselves - but with the lives of others around them, we need people who don't just work for money - but want to leave their neighborhoods in better shape than they were before, we need people who want to try - not just give up.

 -Rof 

38 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On July 12, 2009 at 10:27 AM, ChrisGraley (99.77) wrote:

I'm sorry you feel that way, but you are entitled to have your own opinion.

I've personally just realized that if things change tomorrow, we're too late.

As far as your statement of my non-contributions to my country, you may want to know me a little better before you make that assumption. 

I've served in the military and in local politics. I've joined many groups that are trying to make changes.

I don't blame any 1 party for the mess that we are in now. I simply blame political corruption.

Every other country seems to have it as well, which is why I'm not putting all of my eggs in one basket this time.

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#2) On July 12, 2009 at 1:46 PM, AdirondackFund (27.68) wrote:

@ ChrisGraley

Chris, you are exactly correct.  The point of no return has already been hit.  Even if the Government closed today, stopped funding 'down the toilet programs and projects', stopped giving away what little money can be borrowed to Banks that have CAUSED our 'Egghead Depression', it still wouldn't matter simply because the Debt load is as high as it is....and the funding gap is continuing to widen, as it has since the first day of this crisis.

The St. Kitts piece was pretty interesting, but I hate the warm weather.  Likely I'll be headed up to Canada before long.   

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#3) On July 12, 2009 at 3:53 PM, kdakota630 (99.96) wrote:

I don't agree with the blog, but I rec'd it anyway because I thought it was a good read and made some good points.

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#4) On July 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM, NoMoreSnoozing (< 20) wrote:

Please read the following as a general exploration of feelings around this issue, and not as an attack or judgment on the views of any poster.

The beauty of a free (aka efficient) market is that there is room for all points of view, and that, generally speaking, the market benefits from all of them. The market becomes less efficient when some points of view are denigrated (or worse yet, regulated) for reasons having less to do with reason, and more to do with emotions. Before we let ourselves "get sick" over those who are choosing (or at least advocating) expatriation, we need to consider why we feel so disgusted, angry, or otherwise emotionaly unsettled over their choices. 

I believe there is a certain obvious validity to the fear that the rule of law is deteriorating rapidly in this country, to the point where self-interest might indeed lead one to "move on:" Examples include illegal immigration, federal incursions into unconstitutional areas of states’ rights, the loss of individual responsibility and rights, etc. Others of us might decide to get more involved in politics, e.g. http://www.campaignforliberty.com, or to hunker down and pay more attention to their investments and try to fight their way through this mess. 

I'm sure there are dozens of other possible, rational responses. The point is, it is hubris to assume that your solution is the one that the market will adopt or reward, as it is to denigrate someone else's well-reasoned solution. If someone’s position "makes you sick", that is a clear sign that you are responding with emotions, rather than with reason. 

While human decision making usually involves both reason and emotions, to let one or the other rule any individual decision is to fall short of our wondrous capability to have and to act on both.

David 

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#5) On July 12, 2009 at 5:08 PM, whereaminow (94.04) wrote:

People vote with their feet.

David in Qatar

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#6) On July 12, 2009 at 5:19 PM, donmartin65 (45.54) wrote:

There is nothing patriotic about letting your fellow citizens loot your bank account.

 

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#7) On July 12, 2009 at 5:21 PM, rofgile (96.99) wrote:

David:

 

 Not everything is about "the market".

 If you had a family member in trouble, but it would inconvience you to help them - the right thing would still be to stick it out and help them, no?

  

I can't imagine that after a crisis such as 2001 terrorist attacks having someone say that the only thing they could do now to keep going was to flee the United States and hide out on a boat in some country with low taxes.   People would laugh/be disgusted at the man who said something like that.  How is the current situation any different?  Because it is about money?  That just makes it all look so much worse.

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#8) On July 12, 2009 at 5:49 PM, ralphmachio (< 20) wrote:

Actually, ROF, considering the most important operatives behind 911 were IN.the US govt, so i'm not sure what your getting at.  Furthermore, who cares what 'people' say?  From my continued experience, you can expect the majority (or those that would lump themselves up with what they are told to be the majority) to be wrong almost all the time.  Collectively, they are stupid.  OK, everyone, let's all practice calling a spade a spade- "the majority is stupid!" 

Very good, now, onto the melting point of steel... 

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#9) On July 12, 2009 at 6:08 PM, minduza (< 20) wrote:

Don't agree with blog, but I like healthy dialog. Rec +1

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#10) On July 12, 2009 at 6:10 PM, topsecret09 (52.60) wrote:

  Actually I thought maybe Iceland,or New Zealand seem like logical alternatives to staying here and watching our Republic self destruct under the weight of Special Interest Groups,and Identity politics....  Lets face It.... The Two party system In this country IS broken. Once you get to the point where the MAINSTREAM NEWS MEDIA acts as a cheerleader for a presidential candidate,you begin to realize that you may be at a point of no return,or at best you can forsee DIMINISHING RETURNS on your lifes work.   I am a navy veteran,and I love my country,but It seems to me that the POLITICAL ELITES like to play cultures,and people off against each other In order to gain more POWER. Nobody benefits In the end... Jim

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#11) On July 12, 2009 at 6:22 PM, rofgile (96.99) wrote:

I'm not sure that this dialog is healthy...

 

"Actually, ROF, considering the most important operatives behind 911 were IN.the US govt, so i'm not sure what your getting at."

 

It is interesting, though.

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#12) On July 12, 2009 at 6:40 PM, TimothyVR (< 20) wrote:

Oh no - blaming Americans for 9/11?

Sickening, ugly, contemptible stuff.

I was not aware this site was a place for crackpot conspiracy theories. There are too many crazies here.

That's it for me with Motley Fool. I've had it.

Great dogs, though. The crazies can repatriate. Keep the dogs.

 

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#13) On July 12, 2009 at 6:46 PM, GeneralDemon (94.73) wrote:

So... Italy sucks because the stupid PM sleeps around???? So then, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson and FDR, JFK, and,... etc.. etc... etc..  Your confusing your morals with leadership skills.

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#14) On July 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM, LovinMe (97.87) wrote:

General. It is rare for there to be a quality leader who does not live a quality life.

 

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#15) On July 12, 2009 at 7:08 PM, SkepticalOx (99.14) wrote:

#4: Free-markets are often irrational and sometimes far from efficient.

Chances are the US will be fine for a bit longer despite the opinions of the doom-and-gloomers and utopian libertarians.

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#16) On July 12, 2009 at 7:14 PM, ozzfan1317 (28.53) wrote:

I found valid arguments in both Blogs but it is true you could do much worse than living here.

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#17) On July 12, 2009 at 7:48 PM, rofgile (96.99) wrote:

I'm just saying Italy's leadership has problems.  Its not so much that he tries to sleep with *minors* - or that he tried to stack the parliament with cute girls, the problem is that lobbyists were paying high-end prostitutes to sleep with the Prime Minister in exchange for him supporting projects.

 

I can understand a world leader having marital problems, etc.  But I think this guy is a sleeze ball who sells out his people for prostitutes - this is just an example of the corruption problems happening there.  So, that's why I think Italy's govt is kinda messed up now.  

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#18) On July 12, 2009 at 8:36 PM, ralphmachio (< 20) wrote:

Hmm... what would it be like if All politicians slept with high end prostitutes, (or ARE high end prostitutes, for that matter) and only 'get caught' when it is time for them to fall from grace.  From my doom and gloom, utopian liberatarian, admittedly paranoid, fill in whatever buzzword that legoland- can-rally-around perspective, I think these guys live way different lives than you or I can imagine, and we should just be happy the guy didn't get caught with a child, which seems to be a theme among the elite.  

when one of these guys gets really caught, it will be of that magnitude.  My guess, knowing nothing more on the subject but context, this was a power grab, or like in Clinton's case, it was just time to pass the baton...to Bush.  

This 'infidelity' thing is very funny.  It goes to show how people are only concerned about the veneer.  The fact that presidential infidelity transcends extra-marital relationships, and winds up stealing your money in most occasions doesn't seem to bother people nearly as much.  I get it, it is you and the first lady that should be jealous, after all, you do seem to have sort of a crush on the president, or you wouldn't let him be doing you too! 

Funny, no matter what someone of the opposing persuasion says, I am not even made to consider the idea of leaving.  I am genuinely sorry if I made you want to take your ball and go home.  I am sorry if I offended your ears, crushed your paradigm, made your dog run away, or created fractional reserve lending and wound up stealing everything everyone owns forever and ever.  I didn't mean it.   

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#19) On July 12, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Entrepreneur58 (93.74) wrote:

I've always said that the most important votes a person makes is with his feet and his money.  When a country goes downhill, the first people to vacate are usually the smartest and the wealthiest.   Not the sort of people you want to see going away.

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#20) On July 12, 2009 at 9:02 PM, ralphmachio (< 20) wrote:

Who was that guy who left Germany and came to America to ensure that we built the first operable atomic weapon?  I wonder if Hitler had any use for that guy?  I wonder if he would have just gassed Albert Einstein without ever seeing how he was valuable.

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#21) On July 12, 2009 at 9:19 PM, ralphmachio (< 20) wrote:

PS, you'll be happy to know that I'll be here, holdin down the fort with y'all.  I have no children, no wealth to protect, so I ain't goin nowhere!  Ex-pats come back any time, with a little luck, I'll be able to keep the light on for ya!

...Hope y'all appreciated my coloquialism. Well, that's how it's pronounced anyways...

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#22) On July 12, 2009 at 9:43 PM, ralphmachio (< 20) wrote:

Hey Rof, this is particularly fun for me, and I was wondering... Is this going the way you planned?  If so, genius!  

As a disclaimer of sorts to all those bold enough to 'stick it out' with me, I have 100% faith that Jesus Christ, our lord and saviour, will save my eternal soul, and I have given myself a 72% chance of being raptured away long before the 4 ft grasshoppers eat O'bama's brains out (+or- 2 or 3 percent).  Just in case that doesn't work, I have been indoctrinated into the Voodoo arts, studied the Kabbala, and was a close, personal associate of Dr. L Ron Hubbard.  (You can never be too safe when it comes to your eternal soul) 

Hey. is there anyone left?  Come back guys, i was just kidding;)

Well, gotta go, time to praise Jah! 

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#23) On July 13, 2009 at 12:10 AM, GeneralDemon (94.73) wrote:

So... The PM is about the wealthiest Italian alive - and you're saying that he is trading favors for more money?    ?     You're killing me.

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#24) On July 13, 2009 at 12:21 AM, GeneralDemon (94.73) wrote:

And as far as great leaders sleeping around - for males, that is the rule - not the exception. Check your science on the subject. It has been proven that the more a male cheats, the higher his salary. The more a male cheats in nature, the more offspring he produces. Excepting reality for what it is - priceless.

Again, Franklin, Jefferson, FDR, JFK - these were great leaders, no?

I think Bush was faithfull to his wife.  

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#25) On July 13, 2009 at 1:47 AM, ralphmachio (< 20) wrote:

general, this is just one of many examples of how it is VS. the way our PC world wants to see it.  

We get mad at our leaders for extramarital affairs, but were just fine with them bombing the hell out of some destitute culture who was already close to the stone age.  Nice look. 

This new politically correctness has got people a little distracted, to say the least.     

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#26) On July 13, 2009 at 2:41 AM, mgreen50 (< 20) wrote:

I think the problem here is the man quoted is moving just for money. Good luck to him getting three passports that are worth anything. LOL. He has no patriotism or respect for any nation at all. Really, no one likes "expats" including the countries that host them because they have no intention of assimilating or contributing to society.

But emmigration is a different thing.

I left not in order to save money, but because of how I was treated. I was on welfare (I know, you hate me already!) from the ages of about three to 16. As a minor, I had little choice about this, since it was my mother who applied. I was called leach and a variety of other names. My math teacher shamed me in front of the whole class so bad I cried (well, I was young) by saying people like me are just worthless dead weight. This, even though I babysat, sold my old toys and did what I could to make money. I skipped lunch out of shame for using taxing payer dollars. I did what I could, but it was never good enough.

At the time I left, I felt that because of my past, I would never be welcome in the U.S. no matter how much money I made. So I left. Why should I live in a place that considers me "dead weight" and where people clearly don't want me. Why should I work to contribute to a society that wanted me gone?

Now I live where the economy is worse, the taxes are higher, the wages are lower, corruption's rampant, and the laws are just surreal, (oh, and I had to learn a new language) but no one would dream of spitting on a child because they get goverment help. All children are considered "the future of the nation." In fact, all families with children get some government help, which is part of why the taxes are so high. It will take me quite some time to get citizenship, but I'm willing to put in the time, fill out the reams of paperwork, and pay the taxes, because...well, it's hard to explain "feelings." But I sure ain't saving money this way!

That said, I happen to know a young lady who bustin' behind and investing thousands in lawyers to get U.S. citizenship because she's so happy where she is. To each there own.

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#27) On July 13, 2009 at 2:45 AM, mgreen50 (< 20) wrote:

Ugh. I meant "To each thEIr own."

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#28) On July 13, 2009 at 2:50 AM, uclayoda87 (30.52) wrote:

A less costly solution to moving from the US is to take a retreat for a year or two, moving to a state with low taxes and a lower cost of living.  Make sure to keep your income and work level low enough to avoid being targeted as the evil rich.  With all this new free time, you may be able to catch up on some old reading like maybe Atlas Shrugged (audiobook also available).

In the sixties, boycotts and sit-ins became part of the daily news.  Can it happen again?  It would be fairly easy to boycott GM, BAC, WFC, GS, etc - both as an investor and as a client.  What about sit-ins?  The best way to show your disapproval of government mismanagement is to vote with your wallet, by sitting on it.  Live like Jerry Brown, when he was the governor of California (studio apartment and a matress on the floor).  If the government gives you a check, save it.  If the government asks you to contribute to their cause, ignore them as they have ignored you.

Passive, peaceful resistance will eventually break the totalitarian goals of the current administration.

Henry David Thoreau On the Duty of Civil Disobedience [1849, original title: Resistance to Civil Government] I heartily accept the motto, "That government is best which governs least"; ...

 

 

 

 

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#29) On July 13, 2009 at 6:31 AM, dudemonkey (82.82) wrote:

I'm having trouble understanding why a blog post by someone outlining the reasons they think they'll have it better somewhere else is so offensive.  There are some pretty well-thought out reasons on both sides.

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#30) On July 13, 2009 at 6:51 AM, outoffocus (22.76) wrote:

I rec'd as well but like others I dont necessarily agree with the post. I can see where the person moving is coming from.  It almost sounds like its out of desparation and I dont blame him.  Its bad enough that our policiticians are horribly corrupt. But whats worse is the majority of the citizens are too fat, happy, and brainwashed to do anything effective about it.

Entrepreneur58  said it best:

When a country goes downhill, the first people to vacate are usually the smartest and the wealthiest.   Not the sort of people you want to see going away.

We see this type of behavior within our country. When a neighborhood starts to go down, the first people who leave are the wealthiest and smartest, which actually exemplifies the problem. Eventually the only people left are the poor and uneducate and the neighborhood eventually becomes crime-ridden and unlivable. 

Its the governments job to uphold the laws of this country.  But its the peoples job to uphold the government.  We can't do that if we keep expecting the government to bail everything out. We also cant do it if we keep allowing them to distract us with the 2 party system.  We need more people with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" attitude but unfortunately we are the minority.  So what do you do when you see your country deteriorating and your voice goes unheard due to you being the minority? Fight or flight? Many people will choose flight. 

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#31) On July 13, 2009 at 8:36 AM, lemoneater (82.13) wrote:

I would not give up my U.S. Citizenship lightly. It is interesting how Americans are even free to be expatriates without any threat to their personal liberty from the U.S. itself. For citizens of the former U.S.S.R and its satellites, such behavior was called "defecting" and loss of life was a real possibility. I don't want anyone forced to be an American who doesn't wish to be one. What I object to are all those who come and want the privileges of American life without the responsibilities thereof.(I think Americans need to travel more to appreciate what they often take for granted.) I'm all for legal immigration, I doubt that I would even exist if my German great grandmother hadn't immigrated here around the time of the first World War.

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#32) On July 13, 2009 at 2:01 PM, leohaas (99.09) wrote:

If there is nothing keeping you here, why don't you go? Good riddance. Just change your CAPS identity to BenedictArnold!

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#33) On July 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM, topsecret09 (52.60) wrote:

 The only Benedict Arnold(s) are currently In THE PEOPLES Congress. They took an oath to uphold the CONSTITUTION and to serve the CITIZENS that elected them..... That Is NOT the case at the present time. Harry Reid once stood up and made a speech In the Senate,and he basically said that ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION was damaging our country..... Now the (TRAITOR) seems to have changed his mind,because In his thirst for POWER,he needs to pander to Special Interest Groups whose true loyalties lie In other countries... {Mexico} It is destroying the very fabric of our culture,and just may bring down a REPUBLIC In the process......   Come to CALEEEE fornia and see for yourself.  It Is coming to a STATE near you....   http://www.vdare.com/collins/090606_immigration.htm

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#34) On July 14, 2009 at 11:34 AM, ralphmachio (< 20) wrote:

That has become the division- those who support the government no matter what it mutates into, and those who actually understand what the constitution means, and what we have the right to just by being born here.

By comparing any scenario to the ones around it and saying,"It could always be worse, look at the injustice over there!", you are using your fear rather than your heart.  That leaves no room for improvement.  

It's like saying, well we should be happy eating rat's heads cause over there they're eating rat's tails.  That's nice, and all, but, uh, couldn't we just stop eating rats?  There's other stuff to eat, you know?  I guess with proper advertising, rat is appealing to some... 

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#35) On July 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM, topsecret09 (52.60) wrote:

ralphmachio....   Your so right when you talk about just blindly following the herd..... It could In fact lead to slaughter................

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#36) On July 14, 2009 at 10:05 PM, CaptainRadd (< 20) wrote:

I'm wondering if the expatriate thing has to do more with political ideology/Obama as opposed to the supposed view that the entire political/social/economic system is failing.  You started seeing a lot more of the flee america comments after the election and after the gov't stimulus was announced. The same thing happened after Bush was elected and a Republican majority was in congress.  Flee to Canada.  Yeah, like they'd want you there anyway.

I'm concerned about the gov't debt crisis.  Heck, some people won't even call it a crisis.  But 1 trillion in debt is a pretty heinous amount of money.   Reagan ran up our debt in the 80s, only to be 'corrected' in the 90s.  Can we expect our government to come together to balance the budget after a stablization?  I'd like to think so, but I'm more of a pessimist by nature.  I'm not counting on it.

Democrats want to save the world by throwing money at everything with little regard on how to finance their adventures, and Republicans still believe that their supply-side garbage is the answer to everything (even Bill Gross says they're full of it, listen to his June podcast)  Common sense says that there is a happy medium or at least a few alternatives, but it will be a long way off.  Change like that takes a long time.  Until then, here's to mediocrity!  

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#37) On July 14, 2009 at 10:05 PM, CaptainRadd (< 20) wrote:

I'm wondering if the expatriate thing has to do more with political ideology/Obama as opposed to the supposed view that the entire political/social/economic system is failing.  You started seeing a lot more of the flee america comments after the election and after the gov't stimulus was announced. The same thing happened after Bush was elected and a Republican majority was in congress.  Flee to Canada.  Yeah, like they'd want you there anyway.

I'm concerned about the gov't debt crisis.  Heck, some people won't even call it a crisis.  But 1 trillion in debt is a pretty heinous amount of money.   Reagan ran up our debt in the 80s, only to be 'corrected' in the 90s.  Can we expect our government to come together to balance the budget after a stablization?  I'd like to think so, but I'm more of a pessimist by nature.  I'm not counting on it.

Democrats want to save the world by throwing money at everything with little regard on how to finance their adventures, and Republicans still believe that their supply-side garbage is the answer to everything (even Bill Gross says they're full of it, listen to his June podcast)  Common sense says that there is a happy medium or at least a few alternatives, but it will be a long way off.  Change like that takes a long time.  Until then, here's to mediocrity!  

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#38) On July 14, 2009 at 10:06 PM, CaptainRadd (< 20) wrote:

sorry about the double post.

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