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Are all Obama Supporters this Stupid?

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August 30, 2008 – Comments (37)

Ok before this rant of mine begins, I know that there are plenty of well educated smart liberals out there who actually do support Obama becuase they live in the romantacised views of the world.  Think that everyone in this world should be completley equal, and the rich should be damned with taxes.  And honestly I respect that.  My friend Lynn is one of these people while I never agree with her on anything, I do respect that she is extremely educated on the issues.  I'm going to rant on two major problems I have with the media and a large number of Obama supporters.

 1.  Educate yourself....this is how the conversation goes  "ObamaObam Biden.  I love Bidenhe's so great, Obama is so smart too. I can't wait to vote for him"  Says three people at a party one being my girlfriend. 

Me and my friend Michelle stop our conversation immediatly.  "are you serious, Biden messed up his own presidential campaign all of two minutes in"

 "I love Biden" says one mindless girl

 "Ok" I say to my girlfriend "Name one policy of Obama's you Support"

"I don't know" Ally replies

I say the same thing to the guy

"Get Liz she'll know"

"Biden is so cool he's from Delaware and Obama is so smart"

"So other than being a great speaker name one good policy about Obama" I shoot back

The three of them are speechless.  This is my problem, Obama may very well win the election, but seriously 3 supporters cannot name one policy of his they support? While I doubt that most supporters of Obama are this bad, it's something that I see time and time again with college students, particularly in liberals, who for the most part in my opinion are no where near as passionate about their beliefs as conservatives.  Now when I saw conservatives I'm not talking neo-cons, and I really don't like McCain but I see him as a lesser of two evils.  To further highlight my point me and a friend were harrasing a canvaser outside of work one day, the reasons to vote for Obama....he's a good speaker and her mom was making her do it.

 

This brings me to my next issue which really is neither a conservative or liberal issue, but could theoretically hurt either party although I do feel as if lagely liberal hollywood makes this benefit the Democratic party.  My second issue is this "Get Out to Vote Campaigns". Why do I have an issue with these, because they stress more on the VOTE and do your American duty for a I voted/ Yo Vote' sticker than educating oneself on the issues.  Like really do we we want 20 million uneducated teen and twenty some voter electing our president and congress people?  I don't! It really hasn't helped the last two elections.  I personally am only 19and thouroughly enjoy my right to vote, but I would not have a problem if the age were raised to 21 or even 25 for that matter.  While this would hurt those who have develped some moral code and economic policy belief it would put more time in for a lot of uneducated voters to do the same. Furthermore if you don't want to vote or don't know why or what to vote for stay home, your just making everyone elses vote worth less.

I'll give this 1 day to have 10 people up my butt on this post but o well such is life

37 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On August 30, 2008 at 4:52 PM, LordZ wrote:

I think you got it dead on in your title.

 

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#2) On August 30, 2008 at 5:27 PM, devoish (99.07) wrote:

Oops. Do not read my post. Don't do it. Aaah. You had to read it didn't you? Anyway excellent discussion of Obama's and McCains policies. Clearly you are the solution. And not just an echo chamber.

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#3) On August 30, 2008 at 5:49 PM, RainierMan (81.21) wrote:

Well that's a risky bet; thinking that a political view expressed in a public forum will generate a response. Were you just wanting to preach to the choir, and have everyone agree with you?

Does not agreeing with you constitute having people "up your..."? 

You have fallen into the same trap that a lot of liberals fall into: you think the other side is stupid and uninformed. You also think that your circle of liberal friends is representative. When liberals get on that high horse they are accused of being arrogant.

The "they are so stupid" argument can go both ways, trust me. I know people who vote Republican because they still think it's only because of the Republicans that we got rid of all those WMD's and Al-Qaeda  in Iraq. And that it's only with the Republican fiscal discipline that we will keep government small, and the budget balanced, and won't try to nation build. (For those people, none of the above arguments has held any water in the last 8 years, by the way) 

As an Independent who has serious reservations about SOME conservative policies, and SOME liberal policies, I find any one-sided stance to be full of flaws. It's just never that simple.

Also, you have to remember that a lot of votes that either candidate gets are votes against the other guy. So, for example, some liberals don't care what Obama's specific policies are, they just know they don't want a conservative social agenda, or an anti-union stance, or whatever. Some conservatives don't really care what McCain's policy stances are, but they will never vote for the tax and spend, pro-choice, tree-hugger party.

It's not ideal, but it's the country we live in. You don't have to adopt the same narrow view of the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#4) On August 30, 2008 at 5:59 PM, devoish (99.07) wrote:

Also, you have to remember that a lot of votes that either candidate gets are votes against the other guy. So, for example, some liberals don't care what Obama's specific policies are, they just know they don't want a conservative social agenda, or an anti-union stance, or whatever. Some conservatives don't really care what McCain's policy stances are, but they will never vote for the tax and spend, pro-choice, tree-hugger party

Worse still, they will never know if those descriptions accurately fit the party/candidate they apply it to.

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#5) On August 30, 2008 at 6:14 PM, LordZ wrote:

devoish  in Obama's case you really don't know as his candidacy has been like the tv show Seinfeld.

If your not sure what that means ? it means its a show about nothing.

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#6) On August 30, 2008 at 6:48 PM, russiangambit (29.49) wrote:

>  I know that there are plenty of well educated smart liberals out there who actually do support Obama becuase they live in the romantacised views of the world.  Think that everyone in this world should be completley equal, and the rich should be damned with taxes.

 I tell you what , i am an educated smart liberal who actually knows in practice what it measn to experience hunger and desperation. I was a unviersity student in the USSR when it all fell apart. I had no means not support myself. Suffering makes one more tolerant because it makes you realize thatyou have may weaknesses. When I see hard-core conservatives like evangelicals, I know, they think they are perfect because they never really had to suffer.

In any case, I lived in several coutries since then. It is conservatives who live in a happy fantasy bubble who think the rest of the world is just like they imagine it. They actually think that "my way or highway" politics works. They think that all muslims are terrorists. I could go on, but I made my point. 

Now to democrats. I hate unions. After all, I am from the USSR , unions stand in the way of progess. I hate the political power they have even in this country, which considers itself  so free. 

There are 20-30 lobbiests for each member of congess, corporations can influence politicis etc. There is so much wrong with the political system here.

Anyway, I will vote for Obama because he understands how to conduct foreign policy. He will talk and negotiate with our "enemie s". He will get our troops out of Iraq.

McCain, on the other hand, is only comfortable with military matters. He cannot wait to start another wa. War is the only thing he knows.

Obama is a pragmatist McCain lives in a make-believe world.

Either way, discussions on politics or religion are useless, because these alligeinces run too deep.

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#7) On August 30, 2008 at 6:57 PM, LordZ wrote:

OMG russiangambit is going to vote Obama because he knows how to conduct foreign policy.

Rolling over in pain laughing my off.

Someone please check his voter card ?

a smart liberal ??? I won't comment on that oxymoron.

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#8) On August 30, 2008 at 6:59 PM, RainierMan (81.21) wrote:

This idea that Obama's policies have no"substance" is a really convenient argument that has no more merit than the same argument applied to McCain. Of course, were all supposed to believe he's radical muslim too.

On the one hand we hear that the world will end if Obama's tax policy, or his energy policy, or his "liberal" social policies are implemented, yet his policies have no substance.

So which is it? You don't like the policies and they are really bad, or there isn't any substance to the policies and so you really don't even know what they are?

You can't have it both ways.  

I think a lot of this stems from Obama's "celebrity" (not my words) aura. So, along comes a politician who generates huge grassroots appeal, some of it right across party lines (I guess that would be all those smart Republicans?) and into voting segments that use to be apathetic (college students--just the dumb ones?), and suddenly this is a bad thing? I'm sorry, I thought we WANTED people to vote and take an interest in the direction of the country.

I think it goes back to perspective. If you like the guy, then you want a lot of enthusiasm among supporters. If you don't, then it seems like a bad thing. If tomorrow McCain, or more likely his V.P. choice, is hugely popular, you'll love it. Nobody was complaining when Bush was considered God's chosen one by evangelicals.

 

 

 

 

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#9) On August 30, 2008 at 7:15 PM, RainierMan (81.21) wrote:

Actually I laugh when I look at the Bush foreign policy. How could so many seasoned pols blunder so badly in Iraq and Afghanistan. When did amateur hour start in foreign policy?

I actually was comforted by the fact that Bush brought in all those experienced people when he took office. I thought, "He's got foreign policy nailed!!" A few months after 9/11, I thought, "Could they screw this up any worse"? They could. And did.

And from the administration that said we should never talk to rogue nations, and that Obama was a novice for suggesting it, we're now doing what: talking to Iran. Should I mention North Korea?

Is anybody arguing that we have a fantastic foreign policy under this highly experience administration? Didn't think so.

I'm pretty sure things won't get worse in foreign policy if we swap out the former Texas Governor with the new Senator. But then the bar hasn't been set particularly high in the last 8 years either.

And since McCain is having trouble keeping the Shiites and the Sunnis clear in his 72-year old brain, I'd step lightly on the "McCain is a foreign policy guru" argument.  

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#10) On August 30, 2008 at 7:38 PM, LordZ wrote:

All the Obama people want to pander out is lies about how Mccain is going to take billlions of dollars away from the poor people, somehow BINDEN has come up with a figure of 200 billion ?? that somehow MCCAINS desire to cut taxes is going to cut into individuals.

What a fracking laugh, especially coming from such tax and spenders and because of the BS of BINDEN I find myself compelled to speak out against their lies and fear mongering.

They like to throw out BS phrases like clean coal ~ no such thing, like renewal energy ~ putting illogical thoughts in peoples heads making them think they would get unlimited energy which won't cost anything in upkeep or maintenance.

Totally untrue and more than likely the costs to maintain solar and other so called green energy will cost more than its worth and far more than more conventional already proven sources.

They are selling a dream, they are sellling a bridge they don't own, they are selling you smelly bog infested land in desolute and destituted areas, sort of like buying into land that sits under the sea and is prone to floods and hurricanes and destruction.

Oh no the world may still continue, but when all the pretty speeches lose their luster and when you come to the epifany that with Obama it will be business as usual, but with ridiculous budget deficits and with a new twist that instead of republicans screwing up, it'll be the democrats.

However if my voice and my vote has anything to say about it.

Obama will be just a side note in history, a stupid answer to the question of who was the first black candidate to lose in the 2008 election.

 

 

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#11) On August 30, 2008 at 7:39 PM, LordZ wrote:

All the Obama people want to pander out is lies about how Mccain is going to take billlions of dollars away from the poor people, somehow BINDEN has come up with a figure of 200 billion ?? that somehow MCCAINS desire to cut taxes is going to cut into individuals.

What a fracking laugh, especially coming from such tax and spenders and because of the BS of BINDEN I find myself compelled to speak out against their lies and fear mongering.

They like to throw out BS phrases like clean coal ~ no such thing, like renewal energy ~ putting illogical thoughts in peoples heads making them think they would get unlimited energy which won't cost anything in upkeep or maintenance.

Totally untrue and more than likely the costs to maintain solar and other so called green energy will cost more than its worth and far more than more conventional already proven sources.

They are selling a dream, they are sellling a bridge they don't own, they are selling you smelly bog infested land in desolute and destituted areas, sort of like buying into land that sits under the sea and is prone to floods and hurricanes and destruction.

Oh no the world may still continue, but when all the pretty speeches lose their luster and when you come to the epifany that with Obama it will be business as usual, but with ridiculous budget deficits and with a new twist that instead of republicans screwing up, it'll be the democrats.

However if my voice and my vote has anything to say about it.

Obama will be just a side note in history, a stupid answer to the question of who was the first black candidate to lose in the 2008 election.

 

 

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#12) On August 30, 2008 at 7:43 PM, russiangambit (29.49) wrote:

> a smart liberal ??? I won't comment on that oxymoron.

LordZ, I have nothing to prove to you. Your insults tell me all I need to know, - you are an insecure person looking for recongnition. Let me give you a hint, - the path to success in life is not through putting others down.

Cheers. 

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#13) On August 30, 2008 at 8:47 PM, LordZ wrote:

One word

"YES"

they are

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#14) On August 30, 2008 at 9:35 PM, loriyacht (31.90) wrote:

LordZ - honestly, if you can't take part in the discussion intelligently, then don't take part.  IMHO, McCain dug his own grave with his VP choice - that was a completely irresponsible choice for a 72 year old candidate to make.  It showed that he is all politics and little else - he chose an intriguing, smart and interesting person who has absolutely no qualifications to become President should he drop dead on January 21st.  The first consideration needed to be to choose someone who could be President in his stead.  That was his main responsibility and he blew it.  And he had months to make this decision!!  Doesn't bode well for any decisions he'd need to make quickly.

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#15) On August 30, 2008 at 9:38 PM, dinodelaurentis (69.10) wrote:

is it just me or is:

"YES"

they are

three words???

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#16) On August 30, 2008 at 10:11 PM, LordZ wrote:

dinodelaurentis

The one word was "YES"

the other words were for Obama supporters and other fools who wouldnt understand the one word and what it was referring to.

loriyacht  your not so very bright in your assessments nor your stock picks.

Thinking that your going to drop dead was not at the top of Mccains mind in choosing a running mate.

Qualifications for the Office of President

 

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

Thats all it takes to qualify to become president.

however if you need more loriyacht

Sarah Louise Heath Palin (pronunciation:pay'-lynn, IPA: /ˈpeɪlɨn/; born February 11, 1964) is the current governor of the U.S. state of Alaska and the presumptive Republican vice presidential nominee for the 2008 United States presidential election.

Palin was elected governor and assumed office in December 2006, after defeating incumbent governor Frank Murkowski in the Republican primary and former Democratic governor Tony Knowles in the general election. She was the youngest person, and the first woman, to be elected governor of Alaska. Before becoming governor, Palin served two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996, and was elected mayor of Wasilla in 1996 and 1999. She lost her race for lieutenant governor of Alaska in 2002.

On August 29, 2008, Republican presidential candidate John McCain announced he had chosen Palin as his running mate, making her the second female vice presidential candidate representing a major political party after Geraldine Ferraro.

  loriyacht I'm sure you would have argued that she didn't have the qualifications to run for city council, than you would have argued she doesn't have qualifications to be a mayor, and than she didn't deserve to be able to run for Governor.

And guess what like your Caps score you would have been beaten by the 90% approval rating that she has.

Your just talking out of spite.

Palin is in fact more seasoned than NOBAMA.

Yet she is not running for President.

 

 

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#17) On August 30, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Donnernv (< 20) wrote:

A different perspective, perhaps.  I think that to be empowered to vote, the prospective voter should have some realistic sense of what is going on in the world.  Think Leno's "JayWalking".

A simple five question test, four of five is passing.  Try it yourself and see if you are qualified in my terms.

1. What is the biggest threat to the world's civilization and economic order in the next 20 years...war, terrorists, energy availability, credit crisis, house prices?

2. What major world country economy is growing the most rapidly...USA, Brazil, China, Russia, India, Japan?

3. Over the past five years, has average USA household income (after inflation) grown, shrunk, stayed about the same?

4. Roughly what is the US unemployment rate...20%, 10%, 5%, 0% ?

5. USA personal income taxes (including social security, unemployment, Medicare, Medicaid) are, compared to the other countries in the world, the ...highest, about average, lower than most?

These aren't easy.  Pass the questions out in advance.  But the search for the answers would yield a more informed voter population.  How can you select a President and members of the Legislature if you don't know how to compare their proposals against the real world?

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#18) On August 30, 2008 at 10:28 PM, blake303 (29.54) wrote:

While you are plagiarizing wikipedia, don't forget to mention that Palin supports the teaching of intelligent design.  She must be another one of the smart ones you are referring to.

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#19) On August 30, 2008 at 10:31 PM, blake303 (29.54) wrote:

While you are plagiarizing wikipedia, don't forget to mention that Palin supports the teaching of intelligent design.  She must be another one of the smart ones you are referring to.

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#20) On August 30, 2008 at 10:39 PM, LordZ wrote:

Whats wrong with intelligent design ?

Whats wrong with teaching other possibilities in how things came to be ?

 

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#21) On August 31, 2008 at 2:04 AM, thepull (99.54) wrote:

Hey look, Lordz just jumped the shark. Well, if he hadn't already.

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#22) On August 31, 2008 at 2:15 AM, hondo928 (99.67) wrote:

I come home after a day of partying and there are twenty comments on this post, first off I want to say Lordz I agree with you on a lot.   And I also like how the liberals on here are putting words in my mouth I never said and making assumptions that aren't true.

To the one sided stance argument, I like Obama's view on affirmitive action and I am adimatly opposed to so called "second ammendment "rights" I think gun control is a good thing.

And to the person who said I didn't make any points on Mccains issues or stances, I never claimed to.  I really do not support McCain I see him as a lesser of two evils, and he has MANY MANY flaws, but I am extrememly educated on my personal beliefs and will rip the average person my age who wants to argue with me to part.

 And to the person who says that we should encourage ppl who were previously apathetic to vote and "get involved" is a good thing.  I would say it's a good thing IF THEY EDUCTED THEMSELVES TOO. 

ANd finally the last line of my post was more reffering  to how I feel as if the CAPS community has become extremely hostile towards any post that isn't in their view.  See my post n tipping to see what I mean by up my ass

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#23) On August 31, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Jhana9 (< 20) wrote:

Hondo,

I agree. Your blog didn't deserve even half the discussion it got. In fact, the answer to your question is really, really simple:

You have stupid friends.

Maybe you should hang out with smarter people, if they'll accept you.  Which is doubtful since you relate to, of all people (well, he claims to be a person, anyway), LordZ.

Anyway, if you have any other stupid questions with really obvious answers, just let me know, and I'll set you straight.

Party on, Dude. 

p.s. Who whines when people respond to their blog. Isn't that the point, especially when you ask provokative silly questions. 

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#24) On September 01, 2008 at 1:46 AM, LordZ wrote:

I'm that type of N word that many of ya'lls love to hate.

I like how liberals also like to put words into other people mouths, but I also like to beat some sense and thoughts into people, I like to question beliefs and shake things up.

And for that I am both loved and hated.

Making assumptions often make people make a$$es of U and me I remember someone telling me back in the day.

Right now many people will not bother to educate themselves on the issues of this election, some will simply look at the candidates and think whatever ?

Hondo while I often don't agree with most people, the courage it sometimes shows to not throw someone under the bus and to truly look at things with open eyes sometimes is amazing.

And just because I asked the question whats wrong with intelligent design ? please don't necessarily assume that I am in agreement with intelligent design.

But if we are all here, is it so wrong to think that maybe at some point there was an actual designer who made all of this possible.

Or do we just assume that :

Our fathers were our madels for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that tell you about God?

 Listen to me.

You have to face the possibility that God does not like you.

 He never wanted you.

In all probability, he hates you.

 It's not the worst thing that can happen.

 We dont need him. F*ck damnation, man. F*ck redemption.

 We are God's unwanted children, SO BE IT!

 First you have to give up.

 First you have to know,

not fear,

 that someday,

 you're gonna die.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

 

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#25) On September 01, 2008 at 2:16 AM, LordZ wrote:

1) I want you to do me a favor.

 2) Yeah sure.

 1) I want you to hit me as hard as you can.

2) What?

1) I want you to hit me...as hard as you can.

 2) What do you want me to do, you want me to just hit you?

 1) Come on just do me this one favor.

 2)Why?

1)Why? I don't know why, I don't know. Never been in a fight, you?

2) No, but that's a good thing.

1) No it is not. How much can you know about yourself if you've never been in a fight. I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, hit me before I lose my nerve.

 2)Oh God, this is crazy.

 1) So go crazy, let 'er rip.

 2) I don't know about this.

 1) I don't either. Who gives a sht. No one's watching, what do you care?

 2) This is crazy, you want me to hit you?

 1) That's right.

 2) Like in the face?

1) He, he, he...surprise me.

 2)This is so fcking stupid!

1)Motherfker!....you hit me in the ear!

 2) Well, Jesus I'm sorry.

 1) Ow! Christ! Why the ear man?

2) Awe, I fcked it up.

 1) No that was perfect.

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#26) On September 01, 2008 at 3:52 AM, LordZ wrote:

Glendorian  I bet his stupid friends as you would call them at least know how to properly spell

provocative,

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#27) On September 01, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Jhana9 (< 20) wrote:

Oh look, we get another semi-coherent rant from Mr. Intelligent Design Former Repo Man Who Could Not Get a Real Career So He Tries to Make His Fame As The World's Stupidest Person Who Can Still Operate a Computer. (LordZ, for the uninitiated)

Well, if I spent 8 hours a day blogging like DorkZ, I might worry about misspellings. I don't care that much.

Oh, uhm, LordZ, you have a misspelling or two up there in your various responses. And watch those apostrophes. 

I love it how Mr. Spiritual (that's DorkZ) presumes not only that God hates, but also knows who God hates. Self righteous Christians are always good for a laugh.

As for most of the rest of your rant, it's too confused to spend time trying to decipher. But maybe pretty good considering that I'm pretty sure you write a lot of your "best stuff" when you're either drunk or loaded or both.

Or is it the mental issues that result from having a sister who is also your mother? You got some stories in your upbringing, I know. Please, please tell us about your upbringing! Was it hard spending so much time locked in the cupboard while your sister/mother was "working"( wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Did people laugh when you showed up at the prom with the pig wearing a dress (you were wearing the dress, not the pig. The pig was wearing leather garments). 

Hahaha. Oh, this is soo fun I can't stand it. Please write some more, LordZ. Please. Honestly, you are the most entertaining idiot who can still operate a computer that I have ever seen.

 

 

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#28) On September 01, 2008 at 12:22 PM, LordZ wrote:

Glendorian  for someone who says she doesn't care, you get extremely defensive and touchy, do you need a hug ?

 

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#29) On September 01, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Jhana9 (< 20) wrote:

Hahah. That's it? Very disappointing. I must have hit a nerve.

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#30) On September 02, 2008 at 2:21 AM, hondo928 (99.67) wrote:

Glendorian while your calling my friends stupid I just want to point out that your 24% accuracy and average return of -7.44% not to mention thats underperforming the market, so since that's down a lot too GOOD JOB you are so smart. 

And if someone believes in intelligent design you don't have conclusive  proof he is wrong.  I mean after all Galileo was called stupid for believing that the earth revolved around the su.

 

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#31) On September 08, 2008 at 11:31 AM, floridabuilder2 (99.34) wrote:

hondo... you get a rec. just for putting the words Obama and stupid in the title.... I always believe in guilt by association... Ayers, Rev Wright... ok I can stop there to know that I don't want him in office.. but on the other hand, I think he will be such an awful president that maybe I do want him to win... screw things up even more and move the country farther to the right

everyone wants obama and his big govt plan.. who oversees our financial institutions that are a complete effing mess?  the govt... oh and now we want to give them more oversight on healthcare, etc...

that is brilliant...  like I said, let him win and after 4 years when he Jimmy Carters the country you will see a sweeping change of opinions regarding the left

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#32) On September 08, 2008 at 3:46 PM, LordZ wrote:

Can you all please join me in the chant of

NOBAMA

NOBAMA !
NOBAMA!!

NOBAMA !!!!!
NOBLAMA !!!!!!!!!

NOBAMA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOBAMA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear that Alaska will be need a good community organizer.

Let him put on his cape and fly there.

 

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#33) On September 09, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Jhana9 (< 20) wrote:

And I'm going to further devalue the usefulness of the "recommend" button by also giving you a recommend for being able to place two words in the blog title. 

Guilt by association: Bush-Saudi Royal Family; McCain-Falwell; McCain-Hagee.

 

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#34) On September 09, 2008 at 9:53 PM, TheGarcipian (58.28) wrote:

To some of the respondents to this blog: Name-calling and label application? That's your argument? Really?!

How about moving past the rhetoric and pigeon-holing that so many people fall victim to and get back to the original question, which was:
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Other than being a great speaker name one good policy about Obama.

How about 14 of them? &nbsp&nbsp http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=40

Note: McCain's people said they'll eventually get around to answering these questions, but so far have not. Apparently, they're too busy spreading lies about Palin selling jets on EBay, about not being for the Bridge to Nowhere, and about being against pork barrel earmark funds. I don't know about you people, but I'd think twice about electing someone who's already lying to you even before she/he gets into office!

For all the hype about Republican honesty & values, the reality hasn't played out that way for a long time (before Reagan): still-President Bush lying to us about WMDs & terrorism in Iraq, Ralph Reed and Tom Delay defrauding Texas Christians and Louisiana Indian tribes out of millions along with his connections to lobbyist Jack Abramoff, Karl Rove & Dick Cheney allegedly & Scooter Libby (the fall guy) conspiring to leak a CIA operative's name (which is treason, by the way), Republican Senators having gay sex in Minneapolis airport restrooms or romps with their Congressional pages, Bill Frist and the do-nothing Republican Congress getting into personal family matters (ala, Terri Schiavo) when they should have been voting to give our Iraq troops better equipment (which McCain voted against), the same Congress (again Republican led) that has deregulated the banking industry (at the hands of McCain's own policy advisor, Phil Gramm) which has now led us to the financial/housing meltdown in which we're currently embroiled as well as the Enron-loophole which McCain defended Gramm on, the same Republican-led Congress that lowered EPA standards in 2001-2002 at Bush's request including MPG requirements for the 3 Big Automakers (rather than raise them to encourage conservation and alternative-fuel R&D), the same Republican-led Congress that failed to provide mental health care for our returning Iraq vets (ref. Walter Reed Hospital and Fort Sill) and a decent pay raise ("lowest in 13 years" said the Military Officers Association of America), and an Administration that denied military pay raises yet they claim they care more about military personnel than Democrats who gave them their first decent pay raise in more than a decade, an Administration that resorts to trickery and journalistic shenanigans like something out of 3rd world country by hiring fake journalists to push their agenda, not once but twice, a party that is so focused on winning the election at all costs using divisive (rather than uniting) demographics without even fully vetting their own Vice Presidential candidate (seeming to make a mockery of the political process and does little to serve main stream America, IMO), ...a pretty sad chain, in all.

McCain is a good man, I believe, but has flip-flopped on so many key issues since his 2000 presidential run (e.g., he was pro-choice, now pro-life). It appears to me that he is saying whatever it takes to get elected, not really believing it himself. He is also in league with some powerful people, people who do not have your best interests at heart, IMO. Seven of his full-time staffers are Washington lobbyists (including his campaign chairman), yet McCain cries that he is against these very lobbyists. You can't have it both ways, John.

These are hard facts. These are the things you should be looking at, beyond the surface static thrown out by either campaign. Actions speak louder than words. So forget the rhetoric, the name-calling, and look beyond the labeling of people or platforms or ideas. Look at what they've done and ask yourself: Do I really want the same party leading us, setting budgets & priorities, making important domestic & international decisions, for the next 4 years? Look who has been beating you over the head these past 8 years, and ask yourself: Am I happy with this beating? Am I better off than I was 4 or even 8 years ago? If not, why in the world would you ever want to give that party yet more control over your life?

Hondo928, with all due respect, I realize you're just 19 and this will be your first major election in which to vote (by the way, congrats!), but I hope you are serious about trying to learn deeply about each candidate and not rely upon others for confirmation, whether they be me, your girlfriend's friends or some crotchety 55+ year old 1950's wannabe white meglomaniac who has the audacity to refer to himself as "lord".   (Ok, that was a bit of name-calling -- sorry, m'lord, couldn't help myself  ;-)

For what it's worth, from my viewpoint, it's Obama that's got more depth in the details of his plans, whereas McCain speaks in plesantries and platitudes with no material substance to back them up (listen closely; you won't hear much), no real details on how these wishy-washy plans would become a reality. I keep waiting, though...

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#35) On September 09, 2008 at 10:11 PM, TheGarcipian (58.28) wrote:

Besides, history shows a favorite when it comes to the economy (as measured by job loss/creation and the stock market). So, if you want to vote purely with your pocketbook, 82 years of history is a bit hard to argue against...

Cheers,
--Gar

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#36) On September 10, 2008 at 12:12 AM, RainierMan (81.21) wrote:

Gar--I hear ya.

But logic does not fit in here. This is not about issues, which is why, overnight, women are switching from Obama to the Palin-McCain ticket. McCain was right, it's not about issues. 

As noted in another comment, though, whoever gets stuck with the country after January is likely to take the blame for what is probably coming down the pike, maybe for years, and it won't be fun. Hey, I'm trying to find the silver lining. If the Republican party owns this mess that happened on their watch, well fair is fair. And since McCain is so adroit at reaching across party lines, I'm sure he'll happily flounder around with a Dem congress.

The reality of it is, the country is so screwed up right now, nobody is going to make things work well. We'll just muddle through. 

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#37) On September 10, 2008 at 1:24 AM, TheGarcipian (58.28) wrote:

Yeah, that's what I used to think too, right after the 2004 election, that it couldn't get any worse. But it did. And how. And now millions of Americans will lose their homes. The national debt grows. Savings are wiped out due to job losses. Guv'mint continues to do stupid things...

Elections matter. Issues matter. And, alas, personalities matter...

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