Use access key #2 to skip to page content.

Bankruptcy Protection



October 26, 2009 – Comments (13)


13 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On October 26, 2009 at 10:18 PM, FreeTruth (< 20) wrote:

The only thing I would say to this is that we may be thinking we can protect the individual from medical bankruptcy, but to do it, we will bankrupt the country.

Report this comment
#2) On October 26, 2009 at 10:42 PM, devoish (86.34) wrote:


Well, since you say so, it must be so.

Report this comment
#3) On October 26, 2009 at 10:55 PM, FreeTruth (< 20) wrote:

Whew! I was beginning to doubt my omnipotence. De, thank you for reasserting what I already believed!

Report this comment
#4) On October 26, 2009 at 11:31 PM, caterpillar10 wrote:

Bankrupt like Germany?:) I could handle that.   

Report this comment
#5) On October 27, 2009 at 7:13 AM, fmahnke (70.66) wrote:


They really don't care if they bankrupt the country.  I they can grandstand for the press and act like they are helping some small segment of the population , they just don't care,

I can only guess that they beleive it won't happen until their careers are over,  But we;ve seen the proof through the Stimulus, Cash For Clunkers, this first time homebuyers credit where reports of widespread fraud are met with calls to extend it?

Mwanwhile, unemploiment keeps rising as these folkds focus on more important issues like climate change.  Very sad

Report this comment
#6) On October 27, 2009 at 11:20 AM, devoish (86.34) wrote:


I would like to define some of the terms you are using.

By They do you mean the 69million Democrats and independents who voted for our President?

By "the country" do you mean the people who are paying for insurance policys who will then be bankrupted by medical bills whether they have found that out yet or not?

By "careers" do you mean Republicans on FOX?

By "widespread fraud" do you mean 1%, 20% 100%? Do you have any convictions yet or just your say so.

Who caught the "widespread fraud" ? You or the government?

Are you attacking the Government and not those who tried to defraud us?

Is it good to have caught these tax cheats?

I think I am going to enjoy having you follow me around.

Let's talk C4C now. Sitting upon dealership lots were thousands of unhappy, unwanted, unloved automobiles. The finest most efficient, most modern feats of engineering for personal transportation ever placed for sale in the USA. Good stuff.

Unfortunately dealerships have a thing they call "lot rot". Cars degrade as they sit undriven. Bugs and rodents make homes in them. Mold grows. the bottom of the tires get flat spots, the exposed rotors rust, the oil washes off the piston walls, water condenses inside and rusts the muffler. Lot rot.

In the world of make believe, economics says pulling the demand forward adversely affects demand and is a bad thing for the days to come. In the real world, those cars represent natural resources pulled from the ground. They represent oil for mining the steel and aluminum, water contaminated from tailings, and chemical processess, air pollution for the smelting and the electric power to make and assemble those cars.

Letting this Countries limited natural resources waste back into the ground is a plan from fools.

And your last whine is the most pathetic of all. What are you doing about unemployment? Begging for Gov't help. Begging them to not face up to climate change and put their head in the sand? Then what, whine about that too?

Yes. I'm going to enjoy you.

Report this comment
#7) On October 27, 2009 at 11:32 AM, jmt587 (99.81) wrote:

Oh, SNAP!  Love it devoish, as usual.  Thanks for the effort.

Report this comment
#8) On October 27, 2009 at 7:08 PM, fmahnke (70.66) wrote:


Following you around??, I thought I was just reading Caps blogs and trying to help Freetruth understand a situation which is a real mystery to many citizens,,  But I'll address your questions (as  always)  .

By They I  mean all politicains who make decisions and propose legislation which appears to ignore the impact on the debt clock

By "the country"    I am referring to all US Citizens and its gov;t

By "careers" (see They above)

By "widespread fraud"  I am referring to fraud costing the US a $100,000,000 or more.

The "widespread fraud"  was identified by the government Whch is interesting,  I am an accountant by profession, spending most my career as a Controller/CFO In my line work, if someone designes a program without adequate controls and the company is defrauded, they are replaced,

In the gov;t, is seems some want to applaud these people for catching the fraud, even if they created the opportunity for the criminals to steal (see Barney F and Benny B) Very Strange

I'm really not attacking anyone,  I would like to see the "Theys" replaced by more fiscally responsible people  

It is good to have caught these tax cheats.  All cheaters should be punished and I think we should start with Charlie W and Tiny Timmy G

Let's talk C4C. Thousands of indusrties are suffering  in the US, This administration has spent $100,000,000,000 on helping auto industry,  What about the rest the citizens who are not associated with the UAW and are theorectically paying the bill.

I'm not doing much to help with unemployment,  It would disingeniuos of me to advise a small business to hire given the uncertainty associated with Crap and Fade and Health reform, 

I'm not whining about unemployment either . However, this adminstration spent approximately $1,000,000,000,000 on a Stimulus package which BHO said would keep Unemployment under 8%,  I'd just like to see a return on this investment, but it appears to have been poorly designed based on the result,

I think crap and fade would cost millions more Americans to be unemployed, so yes, I oppose it,

So thats it.  All your questions answered to the best of my ability, honestly.  I don't think I'll be answering them in the future, Its not that I don;t enjoy an honest debate, but life is not a one-way street. 

So unless you answer the two questions I've asked many times, l'll wish you good health, good luck and the prosperity possible with a fiscally responsible government. To reiterate:

What is the progressive end game with the respect to the debt clock /ecomony and you do work for the gov't /  democratic party, don;t you????????????????????????????????????????

PS.  Just saw a NBC/ WSJ poll result where 52% of Americans think America is headed in the wrong direction,  (Must be too many people watching FOX) LOL

Report this comment
#9) On October 27, 2009 at 11:04 PM, devoish (86.34) wrote:

 By "widespread fraud"  I am referring to fraud costing the US a $100,000,000 or more.

So you believe there is fraud in the FTHBTC of 1% of its 9.c billion in credits and you wish to call that widespread. And to do it you have to completely disregard the IG's statement that a large part of it is mistakes, not fraud.

Goody for you Mr Fair and Balanced.

However, this adminstration spent approximately $1,000,000,000,000 on a Stimulus package which BHO said would keep Unemployment under 8%,  I'd just like to see a return on this investment, but it appears to have been poorly designed based on the result,

I like the return on investment of expanding SCHIP for my neighbors kids, and extending unemployment benefits so my neighborsds don't starve. I like Americans.

By "the country"    I am referring to all US Citizens and its gov;t

Too bad for you. Right now those citizens want stronger healthcare than the Gov't is delivering and stronger investment bank regs, and stronger consumer protections. We'll get it, it is just a matter of when. Right now even those who make six figures are wondering what happens to them if they get sick. I posted a story about a multi millionaire whose healthcare bills will break him in two years and he had insurance. A multi millionaire. How much do you have?

I do not work for the Government or the Democratic party. I post for the Dems because they more closely agree with what I want, which is a Gov't strong enough morally and financially to slam the door on polluters and the financial industry. The Republicans claim that they see themselves (Gov't) as the problem. They were correct. The wrong direction you speak of is to far toward the right. Our dissapointment is not in Wiener or Grayley. It is in Baucus. Throwing the Republicans out of office in 2006 and 2008 was the correct choice by America. The next move will be further left. The worst possible history would be if the 2000 election is remembered as a turning point in American history. It is smart of the Republicans to try to tell me I should be dissapointed in the Dems. Rove at his finest no doubt. And I am dissapointed, but I know full well that small Gov't delivers poverty and violence everywhere it exists. The Republicans and Libertarians might want that for America but I do not.

There will never be an endgame to the debtclock until the investment banking industry is under thumbscrews. The investment banks do not need more freedom. They need a strong gov't serving me, and nailing their thievery to the wall. And they are thieves. They sold trillions of debt they claimed was federally guaranteed that was not federally guaranteed. They should be prosecuted for that crime. Fannie/Freddie debt had not been federally guaranteed since the 70's and investment banks sold it around the world IMPLYING otherwise. The only support the federal gov gave to frannie/freddie was a low interest rate for which Fannie/freddie agreed to meet higher lending standards than allowed private mortgage brokers who apparently had no standards at all. Guaranteeing their debt was Paulson saving his legs from his middle eastern buddies he ripped off. And before you go ranting about Obama voting in favor of the bailout, I know that. He was the best choice I had, because Kucinich was not in my primary.

I am perfectly happy with inflating the debt away. It is the only way to get back what the investment banks stole. I am unhappy with doing it through bailing them out and hoping it comes back. The federall Gov't should fund healthcare and retirements and domestic energy with inflated dollars and let the investment bankers and hedgefunds and FOX and CNBC cry. The top income tax bracket should be over 50%, maybe 70% until the debt is paid with those inflated dollars.

Nice to meet you too.

Report this comment
#10) On October 28, 2009 at 1:59 AM, fmahnke (70.66) wrote:


Well that helps. We agree on alot, Although, Big Govt is not something I'm in favor of.

We agree on crimes of the investment gangsters, and both parties are at fault. Clearly initiated by Bush,  I was initally in favor of tarp, but in retrospect, I let Hank and Benny scared me too much, Many congressmen probably feel the same way, That;s why I was so dissapointed when BHO appoints Timmy and Benny, No change here

Let these people pay 70% tax, I'm OK with that.  But inflating the debt away isn;t fair and may not be workable,  Many retirees  or baby boomers have lived frugally, responsibily saving thier kids thru college and now their fixed income crashes,  Many of these folks are far from rich, but this hidden tax forces them to pay for entitilements.  Some of the entitilees, have been much less responsible and hard working,  It doesn't seem fair,

Selling the debt is another issue,  I worry what happens when (if) the fed stops  buying Treasuries and/or if they rest of world gets fed up with the dollar,  Potentially disastorous consquences for America, I don't think it is sustainable in the long,  History suggests I'm right as see no evidence that printing money has ever worked for any civilization,  Why would it work now,?

 I'm not against reforming healthcare or extending Unemployment benefits. But the stimulus was full of pork and low on infastructure, Way too much money to States, which is how big govt prolifrates.

Here in Cuyahoga County public offificals quit there jobs for one day to collect their pensions and salary. Many double dippers in public sector pensions.  BHO said he needed to keep police and teachers on the job, No concessions required, no restrictions contols or cutbacks required. Public sector compensation now exceeds private sector comp. in many cases,  Private sector salary/benefit reductions are common. today. Meanwhile congress increases their admin budgets by 6.5% last year.

I'm no millionarie,  Just a day to day guy stuggling pay for three kids in college at once,  No union but OK with paying my own way, but am hoping for a light at the end of tunnel,  If big gov;t could have stimulated small business people like myself, maybe we get more people back to work,  (not tax breaks but maybe a infastructure related job programs)  Middle class. small business has done alot for this country.  Right now, not much is coming back our way. I;m not whining, but the ecomony suffers.

I've followed Dennis K since he was Cleveland's mayor, Liked  him until recently as he opposes a bill to reform our County gov't which I think (hope) passes next week,  Dennis is a natural born reformer, but can't bring himself to vote against the Dems in charge,  This partisanship is part of of the big gov;t stumblef##k as I see it,  Someday you'll see how corrupt this local gov;t is. I don;t think Dennis is a crook, but he sure did support them, (still seems to)

Our gov;t can;t regin in Wall Street, I don't think they even want to because of the $$$ and its not just dems,, Regulations are a waste as they are smarter , I'd say just let em fail.  We'll recover eventually, Shakeouts are sometimes the only way one heals

That's why I'd like to see someone like Ron Paul as President,  Stable money is important, I don;t he can be bought, and seems to be independent of the party-line influences, but I can be wrong about that (and I all the  rest of it).  But I think RP, like me is a reformer at heart,  And I think the country really does need change' I don't see him as a Republican as much as I think a different breed from the same old stuff.  I used to hope that BHO was different, but he really isn't. probably worst than most in my view as he doesn't appear to even try to keep the campaign promises, And in my book, honesty is most important,

 Nice to meet you too.

PS.  Still happy to have Grayson ?,  This type of political grandstanding is another problem I have with Big Gov;t. 


Report this comment
#11) On October 28, 2009 at 6:56 AM, devoish (86.34) wrote:

Yes I am still happy with Grayson. And even more so with Franken for putting a knife into corporations for taking away American's Constitutional rights.

Ron Paul will never be President. I like him too for his integrity. Not for a policy of small Gov't. Remember there are many small Gov'ts. But none that avoid poverty and violence. The Libertarian party is being taken over by the same Conservatives that brought you GWB and Cheney. Or at least they certainly hahve the same message. "Get out of corporate's way and everything will be wonderful".  You did not like those results, as it turned out.

Report this comment
#12) On October 28, 2009 at 6:47 PM, lucas1985 (< 20) wrote:

"Ron Paul will never be President."
You should fight for that.

"I like him too for his integrity."
A broken clock is right twice a day. The facts say that Ron Paul is a total wacko, not much different than, say, Michele Bachmann or James Inhofe. Just look at the organizations supporting him or where him is a member.

Report this comment
#13) On October 28, 2009 at 8:47 PM, truthisntstupid (91.09) wrote:

I may be wrong, and if I am one of you two smart fellas can straighten me out...

One point raised above bugged me a little.  About retired folks fixed income crashing. Seems to me that at one time we had some inflation, to the point that banks CDs were sometimes paying about 15%.  I was in the military at the time.  Wasn't any good at saving money back then...but some guys smarter than I was were locking in their reenlistment bonuses for four years @ 15%.  This was 1982.  Then the repubs started championing tax cuts for the wealthy and lower...and lower...and LOWER interest rates as the cure-all for fighting inflation.  Back then millions of senior citizens had spent a lifetime saving for retirement the best way they knew how.  They put their money in the bank.  For decades on end a regular passbook savings account had paid 5.25% interest.  Before the great battle against inflation, inflation which had driven the interest rate on some CDs up to the unheard-of rate of 15%, before all that CDs commonly paid anywhere from 7-8%.  Then the tax cuts and the crazy race to the bottom with interest rates began.  The wealthy could keep more of their money...that plus the low interest rates would create an environment more friendly to business.  So began a massive transfer of wealth...but not the kind that republicans complain about.  THIS transfer was from the bottom to the top.  As the interest rates that made business more profitable did the interest rates on savings deposits and CDs.  All those senior citizens, who lived in such a different time than now, putting their money in the bank was the only thing most of them knew.  Investors, such as we are here on this site...well, we weren't very common.  So all these seniors back in the 80s, who saved a lifetime for what should have been a well-provided-for retirement, watched their savings slowly evaporate because, well, the economy needed to be stimulated.  It's a good thing that the new business environment did create some jobs...since decent interest rates were gone, many seniors now needed jobs.  They had to go back to work. They had to live like poor people even though they had done everything right.  They got dimes and quarters when they should have gotten dollars.  High interest rates hurt people?  Gov. Jerry brown was running for pres and I watched people on TV confront him in anguish at what their parents were to do.  Apparently he didn't understand the question or didn't want to.  He, too, was adhering to the new low-interest rate dogma.  Millions suffered.  Nobody cared.  As long as the people at the top were prospering, they would invest their money and create jobs.  Well, here we are.  Can we go back to normal now?  High interest rates do not hurt savers.  Low interest rates do.  Low interest rates benefit mostly those at the top of the economic pecking order and those at the lower end who are stupid enough to spend their whole life never saving any money and continually living one disaster away from their next consolidation loan.  These abnormally low interest rates have also been attacked by Ron Paul, incidentally.  They discourage saving and encourage spending.  They have played a part in wrecking our economy.  Maybe more people would have saved for a down payment in a more saver-friendly environment.  Maybe this housing fiasco wouldn't have been so bad.  And now the government wants to do it again...they want to hold interest rates down super-low in order to try and prop up housing prices for homeowners that got in over their head.  We've had this low-interest crap for something like twenty or more years now.  Isn't it time to throw this one on the scrap heap?

Report this comment

Featured Broker Partners