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BravoBevo (99.97)

Bird of Prey between Mars and Jupiter

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March 07, 2010 – Comments (22) | RELATED TICKERS: DE , PSP , ACE

NASA's Hubble telescope took an astounding photograph in January 2010 of a rare sighting that is around 90,000,000 miles away (confirmed to be between the planets of Mars and Jupiter). Here is the picture from NASA:

 

NASA says it is cruising at a speed close to 11,000 mph.  Early news reports, based upon the "x-structure shape" resemblance, compared the observable structure to the likeness of a Klingon "Bird of Prey" warship (see below).  Perhaps it was caught off-guard by the Hubble telescope's camera before its cloaking device could be fully engaged.

 

D'oh!  Any Trekkie worth his salt knows that they are the Romulons (and not Klingons) who build the Birds of Prey.  And here's the shameless plug for capitalism ... When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.  (I couldn't resist slipping in that bit of fun.)

Now as amazing as NASA's picture is of this space object, there are hundreds of millions of breath-taking stars and constellations across the 7.2 billion mile diameter of our own Milky Way Galaxy, just one of billions of galaxies in the known universe. So then how can we make sense of the disproportion between the gigantuan size of the universe and the smallness of man?

"When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him? Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor."  (Psalms 8:3-5)

The magnitude of the universe is not meant to correlate with an image, but with the Original. The heavens are not designed to declare the glory of man, but rather, “The heavens declare the glory of God” (Psalms 19:1). The point of the universe is that God is great and man is infinitely less great.

I didn't say man is not great.  Psalm 8 acknowledges that man is great.  Man is "a little lower than the heavenly beings."  Only now are we ready to see the point of the universe and why Psalm 8 begins and ends, “O Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!”  It doesn't say, “O Man, image of God, how majestic is your name in all the earth.”

Man is great and unique among all creatures here on earth.  But that greatness is microscopically small when compared to God’s greatness.  God reveals to us that, "My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together." (Isaiah 48:13) Therefore, we return to the question, “What is man that you are mindful of him?”  The universe is designed to remind us of this distance between God’s infinite greatness, and man’s finite greatness. Man resides on tiny planet earth in a seemingly infinite universe. And the universe appears infinite to us as a fitting picture of what the universe cannot actually be: infinite. Only God is infinite. The universe is declaring at least that.

22 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On March 07, 2010 at 9:09 AM, fewl10 (35.97) wrote:

Man is as God once was, and God is as man may become. 

God created this earth as a proving ground for man to become as He is.

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#2) On March 07, 2010 at 11:38 AM, ralphmachio (24.57) wrote:

And dog is god spelled backwards. They too are on the up and up, and one day will feed the cat, and themselves, when humans become as gods, and no longer fill their bowl. Will I need my own pyramid? ;) 

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#3) On March 07, 2010 at 12:34 PM, SockMarket (86.70) wrote:

Bravo,

my Q is unrelated to the post so ignore it if you want, but you seem to be the most knowledgeable person on montheistic religion (crhistianity and as an extention judiasm) around here so I figured I would ask you. 

I was talking with a friend the other day and they mentioned that one can draw quite a number of parallels between the Garden of Eden and a hunting/gathering lifestyle. He went on to say that, at least Judiasm promises that we will live "heavenly days on earth" (I don't know the source). And although I am secular, my church attending is limited to an annual visit on Christmas Eve, so I can't promise this is accurate, but that seems to be (roughly) the same as the christian promise that with the 2nd coming of Christ we will return to living like we were in the garden of eden. So are they saying that we will return to a hunting/gathering lifestyle?

 

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#4) On March 07, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Option1307 (30.48) wrote:

Sweet picture! 

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#5) On March 07, 2010 at 2:18 PM, ralphmachio (24.57) wrote:

Wow, danielthebear! That would require massive depopulation (Georgia guidestones) and probably resemble some of the( 'Wierd Murals at DIA') which both can be found on youtube. Going completely naked if you are a hunter, is never highly recommended(even less so if you are fishing), and if I remember my Genesis correctly, it wasn't until adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that he even realized he was naked. Maybe I am interpreting the book too literally...he he. 

While 5 miles hike away from any roads, in the middle of Rocky Mountain wilderness, with nothing but your fly fishing gear, pack, cookwear, and some rain gear, one must wonder if they already are in heaven. We as a culture are way too busy chasing dollars.  

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#6) On March 07, 2010 at 2:49 PM, SockMarket (86.70) wrote:

ralph,

I don't think it will ever happen, I just want to see what those with a religious slant on things think.

Living in the rockies I would tend to agree (although I personally find dense forests and larger lakes much more to my liking than the thin/tiny ones we have out here).

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#7) On March 07, 2010 at 3:49 PM, BravoBevo (99.97) wrote:

@danielthebear:  Thanks for the inquiry. I haven't thought about a comparison of the Garden of Eden to a hunter/gatherer lifestyle.  I do think that a Christian's expectation of the "2nd coming of Christ" is equivalent to a Jew's expectation of the "Messiah."  Just in case you didn't know, Christ is the greek translation of the hebrew word Messiah, just the same way that Juan is the spanish translation of the name John.

The Jewish scriptures (i.e. the Old Testament of the Bible) contains many predictions of the Messiah/Christ.  Some of the prophecies appear to have already been fulfilled through Jesus: he will be born in Bethlehem from a virgin; he will come from the heritage/lineage of David; he will heal the sick and the blind; he will save his people; he will be rejected and tortured; etc.  Other prophecies about the Messiah/Christ have not been fulfilled: he will rule with a rod of iron; he will strike down the nations that oppose his people; he will save his people; he will usher in an era of peace on earth; he will judge sin; etc.

In my opinion, the basic difference between a devout Christian and a devout Jew is that the devout Jew looks at Jesus and says "Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he didn't accomplish all of the Old Testament prophecies.  The Messiah will fulfill all of the prophecies when he comes," whereas the devout Christian says "Jesus is the Christ because he did miracles that only God could do and he fulfilled many (but not all) of the Old Testament prophecies. Jesus will fulfill the remaining prophecies when he returns."

What is taught in many Christian churches is something to the effect of "Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies of the Old Testament." When I pointed out this error to my pastor after he had said the exact same thing, he agreed and then rationalized "but we don't have Jewish people in our congregation to get confused by what I said."  The problem is that to continue to say such things just keeps the walls up between Judaism and Christianity, so that there is no comprehension and growth towards unity.

You might recall that after Jesus' resurrection on Easter Sunday, Jesus had a glorified body - he could appear and disappear; he could walk through walls but he could still eat fish; he could make himself unrecognizable to Mary in the garden and to two of his followers walking on the road to the town of Emmaus but he also retained the scars of nailmarks in his hands and of a spear thrust in his torso. I assume that in heaven, people will have glorified bodies like Jesus' body. I don't know if a glorified body needs to hunt/gather to obtain food to eat, but maybe.

Whether or not there are hunt/gather responsibilities, I do think that there will be tasks of some kind because, before Adam and Eve first sinned, God had already given them responsibilities to tend to the Garden of Eden and to name all of the animals, etc. From that I deduce that work is honorable, purposeful, and God-glorifying.  I do think that is more realistic than picturing heaven as an amusement park or as a series of television sitcoms.

@ralphmachio:  I think that you are right, and you aren't taking the Genesis story too literally. The story about Adam and Eve in the garden eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is something I've heard of as far back as I can remember, but it wasn't until recently (within the last couple of years) that I've begun to understand that I've been listening too selectively (with too much bias).

For example, there are three primary frameworks of value in societies and cultures around the globe. Here in America, as well as in Western Europe and Australia the primary framework of value is built upon guilt/innocence (Western Christianity calls it guilt/righteousness).  Throughout the Middle East and across to the Far East, the predominant framework of value in those cultures is honor/shame.  In many cultures in Africa and Latin America, the primary framework of value is power/fear.

Back to Genesis - there are parts of the Garden of Eden story that seemed to me to be throw-aways in that they didn't provide much value to help me understand the story - and so I would ignore or at least gloss over those portions of the story. Now I know that those parts are rather crucial to the hearers who come from a different background or heritage.  Western Christianity knows that Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil; therefor Adam and Eve disobeyed and sinned against God ... end of story. 

But wait! To a Muslim or an Asian, however, the next part of the story is absolutely critical: "After they ate of its fruit, then knew they were naked and were ashamed."  In Western Christianity, I could care less that they were naked, but to someone who lives in an honor/shame culture, the fact that Adam and Eve "were ashamed" rings true to their beliefs.  To them, disobeying God causes shame. The Genesis story goes on to say that "God walked through the garden and asked "Adam, where are you?" And Adam said, "we hid because we were afraid."  I didn't pay much attention to this part of the story, but to people groups who have spiritism, animism, voodoo or witch doctors, that particular part of the story pricks their consciences because they learn that disobeying God causes fear. 

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#8) On March 07, 2010 at 4:29 PM, ralphmachio (24.57) wrote:

BravoBevo- To me, (I don't follow any one faith, but spend a lot of time reading and trying to find meaning in religion), the important part is "Now all man has to to eat of the Tree of Life to be as us, and live forever". It would also be the part that concerns the Kabbalist. (don't know if I spelled that correctly) and also important to some folks that don't like to be mentioned, and especially don't like their secrets disclosed, Skull and Bones. They have a number posted on their door, the meaning of which is a secret. That number is 322. Genesis 3:22:And the lord God said: behold, man has become as one of US, to know good and evil:and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

(which sounds like a blood ritual/sacrifice to me, taken in context with skull and bones. They definitely think they are Gods, I wonder if they drink blood. Vampires also drink blood and live forever.)

Now I know the explaination for the 'us' part (father, son, holy spirit), I just don't buy it. I believe it clearly states that there was more than one 'Lord' god, and that he or they were not GOD! I believe they were like us, without a detuned brain, and all of their DNA activated. (we only use 10-20% of our brain, and much of our DNA is considered 'junk' by our top scientists.) All the questions the Lord God was asking Adam,"Where are you, why are you wearing a leaf, did you eat forbidden fruit?", surely does not sound like a omniscient being's speech. There are too many excuses made to make this excerpt fit the conventional story for it to be anything but literal, in my opinion. 

 

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#9) On March 07, 2010 at 11:13 PM, 4thDensity (99.69) wrote:

IMHO, the bible is nothing more than mythicized history from about 400,000 years ago.  What most people don't realize is that the era we live in now (for the last 10,000 years or so) is a "post-apocalypse" civilization, survivors of an earth-busting event known in the bible as "the flood".  The old testament is a series of documents describing what life was like before the apocalypse.  This story as we see it today, though is severely corrupted due to the fragmentation of data through the destruction and also through deliberate manipulation from people in power at various times for the purpose of control. 

The new testament is the story of a man who came along and tried to raise people's awareness, but the gatekeepers of the old story could not accept this.  Because the man who the legend of Jesus is wrapped around procured such a following, the powers that be had to do a form of damage control and created the covenant between Christianity and Judaism, thus preserving the old control mechanism, but also allowing a new religion based on the same 'god' to come into being.  Because of this usurpation, the message from 'Jesus' that we have today is but a pale reflection of what he was saying in his day. 

I realize a lot of people will not appreciate this interpretation, but this is the conclusion, ever evolving, that I have come to after much reading and research.  I apologise for any offense.

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#10) On March 08, 2010 at 9:00 AM, ralphmachio (24.57) wrote:

4th D-

That is kind of what I think, there seems to be a technology gap that we have yet to re-attain from some period thousands of years ago. Science and history go out of their way to avoid even mentioning these gaps. There are more anomalous coincidences in Giza alone to justify a whole field of alternative archeology. The chance that it is coincidence that there are two pyramids on two continents that incorporate pi into their outer dimensions is outlandishly slim. Then the chance that right next to the 'face' on Mars there are(what appear to be) pyramids(including a five sided pyramid)... Sort of like a sphinx next to some pyramids. I feel that we are trying to catch up to whatever left us here, and (as all generations, I think we're special;)) I believe that our current economic crisis and the ensuing social turmoil will bring us closer to the mindset we need to be in to advance socially, which is to be motivated not by control, greed or fear, but by our benevolence towards our fellow man, and to do what is right for the future's sake. 

I mention the above youtube clips "murals at DIA", "Georgia Guidestones", not because I wish to spread fear or any conspiracy theory, merely to illustrate that SOMEONE believes we are heading for dramatic, cataclysmic change (that is needed), but that I fear that those who wish to rectify this situation are also those who created it from the beginning. When the children of those who started the problems come as our saviour, it leaves the same taste in my mouth I get when I see a solar panel made by any big oil company.

To understand the Georgia Guidestones, RC Christian, the person who supposedly paid for the stones is not a real name, but a sort of calling card- The Chemical wedding of Christian Rosencruetz- is a book about Rosecrucianism, The Order of the Rose Cross, or (for those who are not in the know) those who claim to be the modern Templars. Today, the Rosecrucians are an upper level branch of freemasonry. 

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#11) On March 08, 2010 at 12:44 PM, tgarci2 (84.83) wrote:

"Now as amazing as NASA's picture is of this space object, there are hundreds of millions of breath-taking stars and constellations across the 7.2 billion mile diameter of our own Milky Way Galaxy, just one of billions of galaxies in the known universe. So then how can we make sense of the disproportion between the gigantuan size of the universe and the smallness of man?"

 This makes me think of every space movie I've seen, every game I've played (most recently Mass Effect/Mass Effect 2) relating to space, and generally the unfathomable size of our universe.  I don't have so much of a question as I do an observation relating to religion, space, and existance as humans understand it.

 I have been a devout catholic for most of my 25 years.  Starting a few years back I began putting my religious beliefs under some scrutiny, primarily because of the the recurrence throughout history of new and improved religious deities.  What was fact in the Roman empire is now considered "mythology," what was once fact to the incans, mayans, etc., is now providing a curiousness that otherworlds races manifested beliefs to those cultures.  Christianity as a whole, Judaism, Taoism...Buddhists, Muslims, Polytheists, all seek to understand that which we can't fully comprehend: Death, infinity, the relative insignificance of ourselves (not that I or any other individual is insignificant, but that one in a billion is a paradox between the psyche's understanding of existance and humanity as a whole) among an entire race of humans, then paled against the galaxy, and finally the universe.

 I do not doubt the existance of God, I believe he desires that humans treat each other with kindness and understanding...I simply find it hard to believe that, among the millions of solar systems per galaxy, and the billions of galaxies out there, that there isn't another race of creatures with intelligence equal to or surpassing our own, and that those creatures have established a way to relate with things beyond their understanding. 

I have no idea if there was a point here, I guess I just needed to clear my mind.  Really cool picture though

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#12) On March 08, 2010 at 2:38 PM, tgarci2 (84.83) wrote:

4thDimension...

I don't think anyone takes offense to an opinion like that, it is to one degree or another insightful...to concede that life on earth wasn't perhaps as, or more advanced than we are today seems foolish.  I think most people would expect loads of artifacts to still be around and maybe that's why the idea isn't acknowledged so much, but who's to say that their technology might not have been as crude as our own...that some cataclysmic event didn't destroy nearly everything.  Who knows, could just be ignorant speculation, it sure would be awesome to have some huge discovery in my lifetime though :)

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#13) On March 08, 2010 at 11:40 PM, ifool100 (53.22) wrote:

The most startling thing of all is that, despite our advanced intellect, we really don't have a clue.  It seems to me that we know of God is similar to ants trying to describe bulldozer.  It's just not within our realm of understanding.  Fortunately we don' t need to know a lot.  "Love one another' pretty well sums it up and that's already more than we can handle.  Nice picture.

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#14) On March 09, 2010 at 1:33 PM, FleaBagger (33.44) wrote:

This may seem a trivial point, but bear with me:

It is highly misleading to call the way of life in the Garden of Eden a "hunter/gatherer" lifestyle, because there was no hunting. No animals were harmed in the making of Adam and Eve's meals. If you read the story carefully, it says that they were to eat the fruit of the trees of the garden. That is all that is said about their diet. It becomes more explicit in Genesis 9:2-3: "The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant." So God had already given Man the green plant, but not animals, for food.

What is the significance of that? It is of great significance. For the difference between killing another living, breathing thing for your food, and simply eating the fruit of a tree is the difference between predation and cultivation. We did not cause harm to anything while we were living in obedience to God in the Garden of Eden. When Man reached out his hand and took from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, it put enmity between himself and God, as well as shame between Man and Woman. I believe this curse is also responsible for the savagery of wild animals toward each other and toward humans.

As it says in Isaiah, in speaking of the time when the curse of Adam's sin shall be lifted forever: " 'The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain,' says the LORD." (Isaiah 65:25)

So when all is made perfect, and the earth restored, not only will people not die, but no living thing shall kill another: all will be at peace.

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#15) On March 09, 2010 at 1:35 PM, FleaBagger (33.44) wrote:

BravoBevo: the "Klingon Bird of Prey" was central to Star Treks III & IV. The one pictured is the one used in those movies.

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#16) On March 09, 2010 at 1:58 PM, dargus (84.44) wrote:

Romulans build War Birds, not Bird of Prey's.

 

Does this mean God lives on Uranus?

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#17) On March 09, 2010 at 1:58 PM, MaxTheTerrible (92.37) wrote:

It's a really cool picture and definitely is an accomplishment on a part of science. However, I find it ironic that people exploit it to reinforce their own religious beliefs. Let's face it, just a few centuries ago the fact (hypothesis at the time) that the earth is round and revolves around the sun was considered herecy. Just look up Galileo's page on Wikipedia according to which: "Cathlic Church condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture" in February 1616"...

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#18) On March 09, 2010 at 2:03 PM, FleaBagger (33.44) wrote:

Oh, and it just isn't right to leave the "10% of your brain" myth unaddressed. Here is Snopes.com. But basically, our experience and logical thought is plenty to put that falsehood out of our minds and use our scarce brain capacity for other things.

How many times has someone survived being shot in the head? How many times has it been lethal? The exception clearly proves the rule that being shot in the head is devastating or lethal, and we do not have the luxury of letting most of our brains be destroyed by a bullet and then going about our lives unchanged. Of course we use all or almost all of our brains. Our brains get wired so that every part is used for different things throughout our lives, and many tasks require more than one part of our brains. You may have seen scans that seemed to show that we only used about 10% of our brain at any one time, but even that is misleading, as some tasks are complex enough to require a majority of our brain simultaneously.

Our lack of psychic powers is not a Templar conspiracy.

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#19) On March 12, 2010 at 3:59 AM, ralphmachio (24.57) wrote:

Checked out the snopes article. Although I have no idea what percentage of the brains power we use, and have no way to prove it, experience tells me that you can improve your psychic ability with recordings that take your mind into the 'alpha state'. It goes way beyond simply increasing intuitiveness. I never remember saying it was a templar conspiracy, and the tone of that comment needs a definition. What would you call that, the immature, senseless attempt to make some ones perspective seem silly when one has no experience in the subject matter, and feels the whole thing is just over their heads, but their ego just comes out with,"our lack of psychic powers is not a Templar conspiracy". All it is missing is a laugh track for lego people to chime in with.  It needs a word dedicated to it that would have the reciprocal effect as the term "Conspiracy Theory".  Snopes is basically a conglomerate of nay-sayers who only impress others who want the facts they teach in College to be the only facts at all. As noble a task as jumping through hoops for 4 years is, (or more if it suits your fancy) anyone with a strong desire for education would be bored by the educational system if they had no desire to impress anyone with a diploma. 

This life is for experience, and the belief that conventional modern wisdom is the only acceptable perspective goes against the individuals ability to maximize this experience. You will never attain what you don't believe you can attain. 

There are plenty of snake oil salesmen out there. No doubt. I don't recommend purchasing anything, especially if you don't research it. 

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#20) On March 12, 2010 at 10:12 AM, ravali (65.46) wrote:

"the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks"

 

isn't that from Fight Club?

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#21) On March 15, 2010 at 3:10 PM, jpr74 (47.14) wrote:

For those who are skeptics, I was not raised in Church, my dad was an old marine fought on guam, iwo and in korea, was raised with three brothers, the oldest decorated vietnam, we were taught to be tough, I personally fought in karate tournaments in my younger years. The Bible says in Romans 10:17 that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, II Peter 3-3&4 warns of scoffers in the last days, many of the discoveries we have today came by men reading God's word, eg, oil, ocean currents, the hydrological cycle, etc. I began to seek to know if God was real, I began to read his word and pray and one night in the privacy of my room He changed my life, I am not saying all this to criticize, however if I am wrong what harm have I caused, I live a morally pure life, I try to help my fellow man, however if some of you are wrong and you never seek to learn about the forgiveness of sin through the shed blood of Jesus and you die in your sins what then, so instead of being critical to bravobevo and other christians on the sight why not go directly to God and ask Him if He is real, may God bless you all.

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#22) On March 16, 2010 at 2:18 PM, freunddoggy (99.31) wrote:

If you weren't such a good stock picker, I'd really find you useless.

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