October 02, 2009
– Comments (24)
Great interview here:
FYI - From yesterdays post the Daily Shows does HFT:
Excuse me, what was the answer to the question Jon asked at the 8 minute mark?
John, asked a good question and I have seen you raise it before about the existence of a liberterian (sp?) country out there today? Sadly, I don't think so and there probably never will be as long as those in power are not noble and carry guns :)
It doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I believe the way is by reducing gov't as small as we can and limiting gov't cronyism (unions, tax favors, special regulations....) as much as possible.
I think of it this way, on one end of the spectrum we have pure statism (communism) where the gov't is all controlling and makes all decision and the other end we have laissez faire(I copied because I couldn't spell). I believe pure statism is the worst kind of gov't for all involved. Sadly, the US is moving closer in this direction with the help of the Fed.
Do you think the US or the world for that matter will be able to afford statism? I guess we will find out :)
in my adult lifetime the 1980 - ? I have seen the results delivered by those who promoted "small gov't". Reagan, Bush, and the Rebubs. Most of America has gotten increased debt employers who own them through their health insurance and generally lower living standards. The "gains" made in that time were entirely due to the flood of tomorrows money being spent today, known as borrowing.
Todays Libertarians are just the re-branded Conservative's leadership who used marketing and slogans that sounded so nice yesterday. They took a good word and title that once meant fiscal and social responsibility and beat the decency out of it.
I "cancelled my subscription" to a specific political party or policy and am looking to a set of fundamentals which might set our socioeconomic system back on a real foundation. Funny money untimately leads to a bubble. I think Ron Paul is on the right track on property rights and sound money.
Bush was not a conservative or libertarian and made government bigger not smaller.
Todays Libertarians are just the re-branded Conservative's leadership who used marketing and slogans that sounded so nice yesterday.
I wish you thought differently about this because it is not true.
devoish: " I have seen the results delivered by those who promoted "small gov't". Reagan, Bush, and the Rebubs."
LOL, are you joking? These kids had nothing to do with small govt, and only expanded it! You talk as if there were a material difference between republicans and democrats. They both have worked in concert towards the same goal, expanded govt, increased spending, increase systemic debt, & keep the federal reserve intact.
Such a great interview. Notice how genuine, warm, funny, and engaging Ron Paul is and then contrast that with the stark, depressed, gloomy demeanor of most politicians on his show (did you see the Slick Willie or Madeline "starving children are worth it" Albreight interviews?)
And he's that way in person, as I noted after I visited with him in his DC office. Though I am an absolute nobody, he took time out of his busy schedule to talk to me about nothing - just two guys talking about liberty. He was friendly, kind, humorous. He is a man at ease with himself and is capable of taking a genuine interest in other people.
Jon Stewart deserves some praise here too. This is the second time that he has been on Jon's show, and both times he has treated Ron Paul with the respect he deserves.
Jon's question at the 8 minute mark is silly, as is devoish's insistence on clinging to it as his last line of defense. Ron Paul could have easily turned the question around on him. "Where is your ideal society, Jon? Where is there perfect income equality, perfect diversity, perfect regulation, perfect government, perfect environmental protection, perfect opportunity, perfect public education, etc etc etc..?"
No one's perfect society exists. It's pointless to use such a standard as a measure of an idea's quality. What separates humans from animals is the ability to reason. If we decide not to engage in reason, but instead chose to cling to silly lines of hypothetical masturbation, what is the point of anything?
David in Qatar
#6, and #8,
Both Bush and Reagan ran as small gov't advocates. Reagan certainly shrunk the income tax, Bush did too. But the truth is Americans want and need the floor set by having SSI and Medicare and they also need Medicare for all. If the resources of the USA cannot deliver then we are third world and sinking. But as you say, they were unable to shrink Gov't war machine or social programs and instead bankrupted America. As I say, they rans on small Gov platforms. They sound just like the Libertarians to me. Libertarian small gov't must be "new and improved," or with "enhanced cleaning power," or "now with more raisins". You can sell it, but it doesn't work anywhere, so I'm not buying.
I wish I thought differently about this too, and I am sure some Libertarians actually believe this crap just as most Conservatives believed Bush would be fiscally responsible. But if there is one thing history teaches, and Mises does not teach history, that believing everything will work out just fine if you just surrender your Democratic representation to corporate leaders is for fools.
It would but nice to live in a free market utopia. It would be nice to live in a Socialist one.
So far in the real world the ones that are described as Socialist by free marketeers are the better place to live, than ones that actually are "small Gov't".
"Americans want and need the floor set by having SSI and Medicare and they also need Medicare for all."
Um America survived for 157 years until FDR extended the depression with the New Deal. In fact the New Deal is the cause of most our problems.
"So far in the real world the ones that are described as Socialist by free marketeers are the better place to live, than ones that actually are "small Gov't".
PLEASE prove that one.
Devoish, I enjoy hearing your responses & opinions especially since some of those opinions differ from my own. Either way, it seems we are in agreeance, corporate interests have sunk their teeth deep into both parties, Democrats & Republicans. And Americans would be total fools (note the lowercase) if they were to sit silent or ignore pressures of such influence through legislation at a national & local level.
Americans, we, me and you need to pay attention.
Oligopolies are just as evil as Monopolies, and our government has in hte past, and also very much in present day, supported the survival of Oligopolies in certain industries. Through legislation, regulatory industries, and the DOJ, the biggest & most influential are able to gain more power, more contracts, & keep the competition from either entering or from surviving.
Competition, regular, free, competition is extremely beneficial for all citizens in most cases. The government is needed, but should not be killing competition. In fact, the government should be killing anti-competitive practices if it continues to meddle around.
After 154 years Americans looked at the results and saw elderly people, family men and women and their children living jobless on the street and were discusted.
They elected FDR for the promise of SSI and jobs programs and were rewarded with infrastructure to be proud of and build a thriving private economy upon. They were rewarded with drasticly reduced poverty among the elderly and a Gov't strong enough to promise Medicare.
Now in the thirty years since Reagan, "small gov't" theory has broken America.
Somalia, Togo, Zimbabwe, El Salvador all have small gov'ts, unable to enforce their laws or protect their borders.
Would you rather be born poor there or "socialist" Norway. France, Germany, or Denmark with their "socialist" healthcare and mandatory pension/retirement plans, and access to clean water.
You don't get to choose to be born rich for this experiment. You have to do the bootstrap thing.
Typical line of reasoning from a person that doesn't travel. I've been in over 3 dozen countries and lived my adult life overseas. Never once have I heard a single person say they'd rather live in any of the countries you listed over America. Not once. Not ever.
The consulate lines are around the block for American visas for a reason. You see it in every country. People lining up and waiting overnight to get a visa - a lottery ticket - to America. They don't line up for socialist Germany.
One of you is an idiot.
David in Qatar
# 10 - Calling my beliefs "crap" is no way to foster a constructive conversation. It is dismissive, like labeling someone as "crazy" because you don't understand their line of reasoning. I would never call a socialist system "crap". It is just not the way I believe things should be run in this country.
@whereaminow,"The consulate lines are around the block for American visas for a reason. You see it in every country. People lining up and waiting overnight to get a visa - a lottery ticket - to America. They don't line up for socialist Germany."
Do you call this an argument? A serious one? Are you really that ignorant?
"No one's perfect society exists"
Who ever said that a perfect society exists? What a strawman.
"What separates humans from animals is the ability to reason."
Our ability to reason allows us to propose measures of well-being and quality of life such as:
- Human Development Index
- Genuine progress indicator
- Quality-of-Life Index
- Happy Planet Index
and countless others. Unsurprisingly, most if not all of these measures contribute to demolish the myths of American exceptionalism and greatness.
Hey you're back! And more stupid than ever. Since when am I an American exceptionalist? Techoncrats furiously crunching data in government cubicles from on high produce real world results huh? That's a new one. I live in the real world retard. Maybe in South America they don't line up around the block.... oh wait, yes they do. Have you ever been to Anscuncion or Montevideo? How about La Paz or Caracas? Oh well, back to your internship at the university youngster. Crunching statistics only takes you so far. Get out of the classroom and hit up the real world when you get a chance.
"I live in the real world retard."
You live in Qatar, I would hardly call that the real world. I lived in Kuwait for several years - the Gulf is where retards go when they can't make it big in America. Kinda like white guys in Japan. Can't get laid here, so they go to Tokyo.
People don't just line up to come to America. Thousands also line up overnight outisde "socialist" Canada's visa offices as well. And swim across the Mediterranean to sneak into "socialist" Spain.
@whereaminow,"lucas1985,Hey you're back! And more stupid than ever."Thanks for the warm welcome. Unfortunately, I forgot that you don't like facts. Let's clean up the stupidity."Since when am I an American exceptionalist?"You said:"Never once have I heard a single person say they'd rather live in any of the countries you listed over America. Not once. Not ever.The consulate lines are around the block for American visas for a reason. You see it in every country. People lining up and waiting overnight to get a visa - a lottery ticket - to America."According to your own words, people around the world are lining up to get a ticket to the great paradise of freedom called America. "Techoncrats furiously crunching data in government cubicles from on high produce real world results huh?"Ohh, those evil bureaucrats and technocrats. To crunch numbers you first have to obtain data. To obtain data you have to measure the real world. That's what scientists do: they collect facts from the real world and express them in a numerical way.Also if you bothered to read the links that I provided - which is highly unlikely - you'd have noted that the Quality-of-Life Index is prepared by the Economist Intelligence Unit, part of the Economist Group (the publisher of The Economist newspaper), not exactly a bastion of statism. Ahh, those pesky facts."I live in the real world retard."Another example of civility and thoughtfulness."Have you ever been to Anscuncion or Montevideo? How about La Paz or Caracas?"I know Montevideo and Asunción. Asunción is one of the exit points for Paraguayans who want to migrate to Argentina. I've seen them cross the border illegally to enter Argentina. I also know the Bolivian border, another hot point of migration."Crunching statistics only takes you so far."Statistics provide the mathematical foundation of modern science. Statistics helps you make sense of the data that the real world provides. It separates fact from fiction."Get out of the classroom and hit up the real world when you get a chance."I hit the real world everyday, thank you very much.
Man, I would love to compare resumes with you. You sound like someone who thinks much more highly of himself than he should. What did you do in Kuwait? I used to live in Salmiyah, Kuwait so be don't think you can b.s. me :)
David in Qatar
I love you! (Is that better?) You're so predictable. You have a hard on for lofty intellectuals that sit around and try to quantify the impact of things they don't even comprehend. I think that's cute. Again, when you get a real job you'll see the difference between the real world and their world. But, alas, you have chosen a life of government work so there probably won't ever be a real job in your future. You will have a nice life of leisure however, making well above your real worth to society. Don't worry, the intelligentsia has already worked up a number of ways for you to practice cognitive dissonance.
David in Qatar
Heh, I almost didn't catch the hilarious implication of these two sentences:
I lived in Kuwait for several years
the Gulf is where retards go when they can't make it big in America
Have you ever heard of the term "projection?"
Lol, all I want to know is if somebody ACTUALLY cited the Happy Planet Index as some sort of evidence.
Secondly, on that topic, ever find it funny that every year they find conservatives/libertarians are happier with life than liberals?
And for all the talk about helping the poor, making things fair and equal, etc. etc. by lefties its conservatives who give more to charity.
@whereaminow,"I love you! (Is that better?)"
It'd be better if you were polite, intelligent and open minded.
"You're so predictable."
So are you.
"You have a hard on for lofty intellectuals that sit around and try to quantify the impact of things they don't even comprehend. I think that's cute."
I love science and the pursuit of knowledge from the simplest things (reading a thermometer and taking note of the value, writing a simple batch file, etc) to the most complex things. Why do you hate knowledge so much? It's because it doesn't fit your faith-based worldview?
"Again, when you get a real job you'll see the difference between the real world and their world."
What's a real job? Growing vegetables for my own consumption isn't a real job? Being a lab asistant isn't a real job? Writing for the local newspaper isn't a real job? Doing basic IT work isn't a real job?
"But, alas, you have chosen a life of government work so there probably won't ever be a real job in your future."
I don't work for the government. Where did you get this baseless assumption?
"You will have a nice life of leisure"
I do, indeed, have a nice life of leisure. I'm very grateful for the possibilities that life has gave me: lots of friends, good health, a very good job, a nice amount of savings at a young age, the possibility to enjoy the outdoors in the most beautiful continent in the world, a working brain, the respect and admiration of lots of people, etc.
"making well above your real worth to society."
I advice you to not use the word society. Collectivist thoughts aren't welcome in your cult. Also, how do you measure someone's real worth to society? Do you use the size of the banking account as a proxy? Or it's a subjetive thing?