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Heroic 13 Year Old Girl Crushes Socialist Professor

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June 12, 2010 – Comments (42)

Check out this brilliant and insightful 13 year old as she destroys Professor Benjamin Barber.  The other day we discovered that 92% of Progressives got the minimum wage law question wrong on a simple economics survey.  Well, here we go again.  

David in Qatar

Trolls, be warned: I think you are the lowest form of Internet life. I will insult and mock you. At the very least, since I did not invite you, I am going to get enjoyment out of your pathetic, masturbatory existence. Have a great day!

 

 

42 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On June 12, 2010 at 11:18 AM, blesto (31.74) wrote:

That kid reminded me of when I was that age. I had a working lawn mower and charged enough to cover gas, oil, and comic book habit. I'm thankful I never had any government entity on my back. I was just a kid happy to get my comics and those super sugary frozen slushy drinks.

And while I'm thinking about it, one of my favorite comics is becoming a movie. "Jonah Hex"!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#2) On June 12, 2010 at 11:23 AM, kdakota630 (29.86) wrote:

I wish I was that smart at that age.

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#3) On June 12, 2010 at 11:29 AM, tfirst (35.00) wrote:

Excellent!!!!

The problem IS the Fed...the Constitution states that only the treasury can coin money. When are we going to stand up and make the law breakers pay for their crimes? Not until the average citizen reads and understands our Constitution. Why would they, when they are too busy being an unknowing slave to our taxation system.

Special thanks goes out to Rockefeller, Kennedy, Hoover, Wilson, FDR, for keeping the rich safely rich and the working poor, remain the working poor. There has been no fortune made without some sort of criminal activity. The bigger the fortune, the more heinous the crime. Understand history and it becomes clear...

Am I a troll?

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#4) On June 12, 2010 at 1:08 PM, ozzfan1317 (81.78) wrote:

Ok I admire her guts but do you have any idea how little minimum wage is? If we were allowed to be paid less we would increase our number of homeless.

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#5) On June 12, 2010 at 1:37 PM, FleaBagger (29.46) wrote:

tfirst - you did stick to a subject that was briefly mentioned in the video. But you went off on a tangent that was clearly more along the lines of what you wanted to say than a comment on the post or the video.

I proclaim you half blogger, half troll.

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#6) On June 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM, whereaminow (51.33) wrote:

lmao @ flea and tfirst.  thanks for that!  classic!

David in Qatar

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#7) On June 12, 2010 at 2:04 PM, ralphmachio (23.81) wrote:

Does that mean a troll is concerned with the "How did things get so f-d up in the first place", and less interested in the acute argument in question?  Wow, I must be troll king!

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#8) On June 12, 2010 at 2:07 PM, cthomas1017 (69.03) wrote:

Once again, an unsubstantiated, irrational statement from #4.

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#9) On June 12, 2010 at 5:46 PM, devoish (99.08) wrote:

Is the subject child labor or minimjum wage laws?

Tell that little girls foolish parents that opportunity awaits her.

Special thanks goes out to Rockefeller, Kennedy, Hoover, Wilson, FDR, and now President Barack Obama for providing education, food, and now healthcare to all of America's children.

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#10) On June 12, 2010 at 5:50 PM, ozzfan1317 (81.78) wrote:

Did you watch the video Cthomas? The little girls argument is against minimum wage. Were people really better off when they made .05 an hour?  Also i'm not agreeing with certain kinds of government intervention is it really better to let employers charge as little as they want? I have had a minimum wage job before and could barely pay my bills if I had made less much I would have been moving back in with my parents..lol Also I don't agree with the bailouts either but that was a trillion wasted dollars that was already wasted.

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#11) On June 12, 2010 at 5:53 PM, ozzfan1317 (81.78) wrote:

Also minimum wage applies to a regular taxable job if shes employs herself like the question implies she can choose what ever she wants to make.

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#12) On June 12, 2010 at 5:53 PM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

Don't fault ozzfan, that's a valid concern. It's on topic and directed to the point.

ozzfan, let's say that I own the local fast food joint and job openings are tight right now.

If I have a minimum that I have to pay someone, then I have to expect a minimum standard for my investment. I can't put someone that doesn't speak english at the front counter and I can't put someone with say a disability or someone that is older in a fast paced role in the business either.

If I did hire this person for the same wage that I hired someone that can do those things and more, they have a valid complaint that they should be worth more and paid more because they can do more.

Now if I could hire that person for less because they are able to clean the lobby or pick-up trash which is worth something to me but less money than the people that do more productive jobs then we both win.

With a minimum wage, homelessness actually goes up because you out-price the skills of some people and they just can't find a job. If I could pay a few of those people to do what I know they can do, I could hire a few more people and keep some of my more productive people from doing jobs that could be done by someone less skilled. It does have a drag on everyone else's wages because there is more competition, but that is better than the tax burden on the back end while we support those priced out of the market altogether. Those people are adding nothing to our production and in fact they are sucking away productivity.

 

 

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#13) On June 12, 2010 at 5:54 PM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

That was about #4 btw ozzfan

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#14) On June 12, 2010 at 5:57 PM, usmilitiadude (30.67) wrote:

Thank you politicians for letting me pay for someone elses tatoos, sweet rims, cable TV,cigarettes, and art with cross sitting in a toilet full of urine. It is my pleasure paying taxes to enrich others' lives in this way.

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#15) On June 12, 2010 at 6:10 PM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

devoish,

I'm trying to stay on topic, so I'll save the "Are you really happy with Obama's health care plan?" question for another post.

Please explain to me how the absence of minimum wage in this country would create child slavery.

Could you also tell me what happens with the child prostitution numbers in these poor countries when the child labor laws get enhanced? They are working because the family needs money and if they don't do legally, they'll do it illegally.

The situation in countries like Haiti is sad, but don't pretend a minimum wage would be a solution. Haiti has no exports as it is. Even a 50 cent minimum wage in Haiti would destroy the few exports that they have. 

I would like to see better child labor laws in Haiti, but the fact is if the economy isn't grown first, you'll increase child prostitution and the sale of children to predators.

 

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#16) On June 12, 2010 at 6:14 PM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

#11) On June 12, 2010 at 5:53 PM, ozzfan1317 (32.65) wrote:

Also minimum wage applies to a regular taxable job if shes employs herself like the question implies she can choose what ever she wants to make.

Legally no, the labor laws still apply. Think about that if you enploy a babysitter or someone to mow your grass, because you are most likely breaking the law.

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#17) On June 12, 2010 at 6:34 PM, whereaminow (51.33) wrote:

devoish,

Why haven't those countries succeeded in legislating themselves out of poverty?  I mean, can't they just pass a minimum wage law and make all the poverty disappear?  That's how it works right?  

It's like gravity.  We can pass a law that it no longer applies, and then we can all fly if we flap our arms.......No?

David in Qatar

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#18) On June 12, 2010 at 7:37 PM, ozzfan1317 (81.78) wrote:

I see your point and that was the discussion I was looking for most of us want every one to earn a fair wage but I can see the point that a minimum wage could price some out of work. See isnt that less painful than assuming my comments were baseless?..lol

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#19) On June 12, 2010 at 7:38 PM, devoish (99.08) wrote:

David,

You made a funny joke about gravity - 1/2 troll I guess.

With a minimum wage, homelessness actually goes up because you out-price the skills of some people and they just can't find a job. - ChrisGraley

Why haven't those countries succeeded in legislating themselves out of poverty?  I mean, can't they just pass a minimum wage law and make all the poverty disappear?  That's how it works right? - Hopelesslylost

So what are we arguing here? Minimum wage laws are a big deal or an insignificant rub in the ointment? Not having minimum wage laws certainly hasn't solved any employment issues. Perhaps there is something bigger going on. Lets investigate the thoughts of ChrisGraley for the real solution

If I have a minimum that I have to pay someone, then I have to expect a minimum standard for my investment. I can't put someone that doesn't speak english at the front counter and I can't put someone with say a disability or someone that is older in a fast paced role in the business either.

I'd like to point out that you cannot put someone at the front counter who cannot speak English regardless of how much you pay them.

If I did hire this person for the same wage that I hired someone that can do those things and more, they have a valid complaint that they should be worth more and paid more because they can do more.

And you would have to pay them more to hire them, regardless of how little you pay your other help. Since your business has no other competitive advantage than the low wages it trys to pay it will wallow along until it fails. Minimum wage or not. Because not having a minimum wage will not give you the competitive advantage you don't have on your own merit.

Now if I could hire that person for less because they are able to clean the lobby or pick-up trash which is worth something to me but less money than the people that do more productive jobs then we both win.

Congratulations. You both win. Hire that person to pick up the trash for less money than the people that do more productive jobs. Or don't hire them and take that productive person off the productive job to pick up the trash. Or stay late and do it yourself instead of the bookkeeping.

Hey! is pointing out your lack of any competitive advantage actually causing your problems an example of "thinking for oneself"?

You are welcome again!

A minimum wage law is merely one part of a level playing field wherupon creative and better run business's can excel and advance on their own merit.

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#20) On June 12, 2010 at 7:39 PM, ozzfan1317 (81.78) wrote:

#16 good point chris I guess thats like the hush ,hush system lol if your your own boss wage is negotable just don't tell Uncle Sam.

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#21) On June 12, 2010 at 7:47 PM, ozzfan1317 (81.78) wrote:

Hey Chris also thanks for pointing that out I didn't realize that labor laws stretched to cover the self employed learn something new every day.

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#22) On June 12, 2010 at 8:04 PM, jatt22 (52.70) wrote:

$ 7.25 x 40 = 290 - 50 ( all taxes ) = 240   all i wanna say dat how lower some body can go , some body who wakes up every day an dress up an drive to work an work wth full good faith n honestly an still get paid less dan da figure above . cmon

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#23) On June 12, 2010 at 10:04 PM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

 devoish wrote

If I have a minimum that I have to pay someone, then I have to expect a minimum standard for my investment. I can't put someone that doesn't speak english at the front counter and I can't put someone with say a disability or someone that is older in a fast paced role in the business either.

I'd like to point out that you cannot put someone at the front counter who cannot speak English regardless of how much you pay them. (Thanks for agreeing with me here Steven)

If I did hire this person for the same wage that I hired someone that can do those things and more, they have a valid complaint that they should be worth more and paid more because they can do more.

And you would have to pay them more to hire them, regardless of how little you pay your other help. Since your business has no other competitive advantage than the low wages it trys to pay it will wallow along until it fails. Minimum wage or not. Because not having a minimum wage will not give you the competitive advantage you don't have on your own merit. (Thank you again for agreeing with me that not having a minimum wage does nothing to help my competitve advantage, but it does allow me to hire people that I would normally tell to pound pavement.)

Now if I could hire that person for less because they are able to clean the lobby or pick-up trash which is worth something to me but less money than the people that do more productive jobs then we both win.

Congratulations. You both win. Hire that person to pick up the trash for less money than the people that do more productive jobs. Or don't hire them and take that productive person off the productive job to pick up the trash. Or stay late and do it yourself instead of the bookkeeping.(Wow! you agreed with me 3 times in a row! In this system, I'm making more money and can afford bigger raises!)

Hey! is pointing out your lack of any competitive advantage actually causing your problems an example of "thinking for oneself"? (I'm not sure how you think my ficticous restaurant lacks an competitive advantage?)

You are welcome again!

A minimum wage law is merely one part of a level playing field wherupon creative and better run business's can excel and advance on their own merit. (Did you read what you just wrote? It doesn't level the playing field. It creates an artificial playing field. When you create a gap, a few people fall into it. I know it doesn't matter to you, because you'll just pass off support of these people off on the taxpayer, but turning someone that could be productive into a government liability is exactly why the economy erodes. You can't keep causing a problem and keep telling people that you're the solution. My fictional fastfood restaurant and the one across the street will still play by the same rules and the guy that doesn't speak English still doesn't have a job.)

 

 

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#24) On June 12, 2010 at 10:25 PM, whereaminow (51.33) wrote:

devoish,

What I am pointing out is that you have failed to ask some very simple questions that would lead you to understanding.  It is nice that you feel bad for the plight of children around the world.  So do I.  The difference is that I understand why they are poor, and there is nothing that a minimum wage law can do to help their situation.

Two simple questions should suffice:

1. Why are the children in these countries working?

2. Why are children in developed countries able to not have to work?

I'll give you a hint.  It has something to do with the labor productivity of their parents and the nation as a whole.  And no, I don't mean that poor children have lazy parents.  I mean, how productive is the labor of the parents in terms of how much it produces.  And second, how does labor become more productive.

If you can't understand this, you are doomed to life of feeling sorry for people that you can't help because you don't understand their predicament. 

What good does it do to plaster images of poverty everywhere if you don't understand why some people are poorer in the first place?  I don't think you are helping them.

David in Qatar

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#25) On June 13, 2010 at 12:16 AM, devoish (99.08) wrote:

And you would have to pay them more to hire them, regardless of how little you pay your other help. Since your business has no other competitive advantage than the low wages it trys to pay it will wallow along until it fails. Minimum wage or not. Because not having a minimum wage will not give you the competitive advantage you don't have on your own merit. (Thank you again for agreeing with me that not having a minimum wage does nothing to help my competitve advantage, but it does allow me to hire people that I would normally tell to pound pavement.) - ChrisGraley

I did not agree with you that not having a minimum wage allows you to hire people you would normally tell to pound pavement. Having a floor that needs sweeping does. They will cost you minimum wage, put it in your budget or put your hands upon the broom and understand that you have not done enough more than the sweeper to deserve a higher wage than the sweeper.

A minimum wage is not an "artificial" floor. It is the law of the land and set far to low at present but still helps create a far better world to live in than any "free market" economy ever will.

David,

We should just stay on the subject and agree that minimum wage laws did not cause the conditions in the videos I posted.

Then you can discuss how raising minimum wage can help ChrisGraley's business even if he brings no special ability to it.

I have to go to sleep.

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#26) On June 13, 2010 at 1:05 AM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

Wow!

Politics is everything in the devoish family!

Thanks to devoish, I've got to tell the guy that can't speak English that I can't hire him to sweep the floor because I have to pay him the same amount of money that I have pay to people that do more.

Your right devoish a minimum wage is not an artifical floor, it's an artificial market.

 

David,

We should just stay on the subject and agree that minimum wage laws did not cause the conditions in the videos I posted.

In my opinion, if you are going to propose that, then you have to agree that minimum wage laws will do nothing to help those same conditions and would in fact hurt those conditions.

Then you can discuss how raising minimum wage can help ChrisGraley's business even if he brings no special ability to it.

You are very good at making my fictional business out to be evil! As far as what I bring to it, have you tasted one of my burgers?

 

 

 

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#27) On June 13, 2010 at 2:52 AM, devoish (99.08) wrote:

You are very good at making my fictional business out to be evil! As far as what I bring to it, have you tasted one of my burgers?

As Fleabagger says - you did stick to a subject that was briefly mentioned in the video. But you went off on a tangent that was clearly more along the lines of what you wanted to say than a comment on the post or the video.

I proclaim you half blogger, half troll.

Either get that floor swept or expect people to choose not to eat in a dump. Same issues as any other burger joint deals with.

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#28) On June 13, 2010 at 9:24 AM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

Either get that floor swept or expect people to choose not to eat in a dump. Same issues as any other burger joint deals with.

Yep, same issuses that all the other restaurants deal with.

Those issues would be easier to deal with without you dictating to me how my business should handle things though.

If you want to show people how a fast food business should be run, open up your own burger joint and stop telling me how to run mine.

BTW, you are the one that went off on the tangent that I didn't bring a special ability to my ficticious business. That makes you the troll yet again, but that's not new. I do bring a special ability that you don't bring. An understanding of basic economics.

 

 

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#29) On June 13, 2010 at 9:44 AM, devoish (99.08) wrote:

Those issues would be easier to deal with without you dictating to me how my business should handle things though.

Those minimum wage issues are no harder for you than any other restaurant owner. Step up to the challenge if you can.

 

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#30) On June 13, 2010 at 10:50 AM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

 #29) On June 13, 2010 at 9:44 AM, devoish (99.57) wrote:

 Those minimum wage issues are no harder for you than any other restaurant owner. Step up to the challenge if you can.

 

The point was that there are people that I couldn't hire and neither can my competition. Did you forget about those people or is your agenda more important than they are?

 

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#31) On June 13, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Quellist (< 20) wrote:

Trolls, be warned: I think you are the lowest form of Internet life. I will insult and mock you. At the very least, since I did not invite you, I am going to get enjoyment out of your pathetic, masturbatory existence. Have a great day!

Really? Considering that most of your blogs fit the classical definition of Trolling like a glove, that is fairly funny. Altough the old school trolls end theirs with have a nice day (hand), I guess you wanted to show that you are the new breed?

Like this one, short, cheap and inflammatory and if you really think that she "destroyed" the professor I think that you could have used some more time in school. 

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#32) On June 13, 2010 at 7:19 PM, devoish (99.08) wrote:

The point was that there are people that I couldn't hire and neither can my competition. Did you forget about those people or is your agenda more important than they are? - ChrisGraley

Then your point is entirely, thoroughly, completely wrong. You and your competition both need your floors swept. If you do not want to pay minimum wage, grab hold of the broom and recognise that at that very moment you have nothing more valuable to do.

The help you hire is decided by the work you need done. Not a minimum wage law. If you have the ability to hire well it is a competitive advantage you have earned. If not your business wallows in mediocrity or fails to the restaurant that hires better than you.

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#33) On June 13, 2010 at 8:17 PM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

devoish, you don't even believe that circular logic. If you can only sweep the floor you aren't worth the same minimum wage to myself or my competition.as others that can do more. I'll pay them to sweep the floor and you are out of a job. It hurts both of us but at least your government is out to protect you.

Hiring better is exactly the reason that you wouldn't have a job. 

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#34) On June 13, 2010 at 10:13 PM, whereaminow (51.33) wrote:

First of all, Quellist, thanks for the urban dictionary link. You are a troll of the highest order, and I commend you.

Second, devoish, who are you to direct the operations of Chris' business?  Why are we to believe that a disinterested (in an economic sense) third party can direct the affairs of private business any more rationally and practically than they can on their own?

In other words, you are giving yourself away as the tyrant you want to be. If your decree does not make economic sense, you turn to personal attacks and place blame on Chris ("you can't meet the challenge!" or "you are too lazy to sweep floors!")

It's the typical behavior of a tyrant, your highness.  So from now on, I shall refer to you as King Devoish, since that it is obviously what you want to be.

David in Qatar

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#35) On June 14, 2010 at 1:41 AM, ChrisGraley (30.29) wrote:

I actually think devoish would make a good Chavez.

You can't sell your product at the government mandated prices! We're taking you over, you unpatriotic loser! 

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#36) On June 14, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Quellist (< 20) wrote:

First of all, Quellist, thanks for the urban dictionary link. You are a troll of the highest order, and I commend you.

Well, my semi-broken english doesn't lend itself to trolling but do you really think that my short comment way down on the page is the best I could do if I wanted to garner a lot of irational and/or emotional responses?  The more likely explanation is that to your zealot mind every problem is a nail, or in this case, every detractor a troll. 

But honestly, do you really think that this Fox Talkshow excerpt, your inspired commentary nonwithstanding, is something to build intelligent discourse on? 

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#37) On June 14, 2010 at 10:50 AM, whereaminow (51.33) wrote:

Quellist,

is something to build intelligent discourse on? 

By itself? No. But the commentors here have been discussing this for quite some time.  We make progress every now and then.

David in Qatar

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#38) On June 14, 2010 at 12:37 PM, nzsvz9 (< 20) wrote:

David,

The young girl gets it all right - and I'll suppose that's her Mom looking in on her asking the question. Way to go Mom.

And the answer is capital.

Productivity is enhanced by capital investment. Drucker writes about this a lot is his work - and as a knowledge worker myself - we can not (yet) be replaced by capital. Manual labor can be replaced by capital to make the worker more productive, which drives down the cost of operating (otherwise it is a bad investment) to offer goods and/or services for sale at a more competitive price. That's how capitalism works.

The videos posted by King Devoish are an emotional distraction to the central topic of wage labor laws - or minimum wage. The governments in those countries have long histories of human rights abuses and corruption - any job there would help their families lift themselves out of poverty - and they are desperate. They have my sympathy, and get some of my aid through charity - but I too wish they were better off. Child labor in Pakistan, slavery in Haiti, brickmaking in Cambodia - I hope it is to earn something for food, clothes, shelter and such for the possibility of a better life. Evan the girl who sells ice - she is clothed and I hope she eats. She's running part of a small business as part of family effort not to starve. Quite a feat for a girl of 8.

I remember my first minimum wage job $4 something an hour. Unloading trucks, cleaning stock rooms, moving carpets, crushing refuse, and general labor. After 3 months my wage went up by $0.25 an hour - simply because I stuck around while others quit (it was pretty hard work) - and the managers saw I was reliable and a good employee - and I was quite pleased. After that I NEVER worked for minimum wage again. It was the absolute bottom rung of the ladder ... But is was not necessary.

Oh - and the one video claimed child labor was working under age 18 I think. That means I was working as a child laborer for at least 3 years officially - and many more unofficially (delivery boy and lawn cutter, etc.)

Known as knowledge worker nzsvz9

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#39) On June 14, 2010 at 8:42 PM, devoish (99.08) wrote:

 Second, devoish, who are you to direct the operations of Chris' business? - hopelesslylost

In reply #12 ChrisGraley expressed a list of issues he was having trouble dealing with and was requesting that Government change the rules to help him out. I was just trying to offer him some help based upon your teachings that "the market" rewards innovation and quality.

Clearly he needs to "man up" and face the reality of how "the market" deals with his mediocrity.

the tyrant you want to be - hopelesslylost

King Devoish - nzsv9

So from now on, I shall refer to you as King Devoish, since that it is obviously what you want to be. - hopelesslylost

That will be Grand High Exalted Mystic King Devoish to you.

I would like to point out that your economic acumen has devolved into name-calling. "Trolls" I think you call yourselves now.

Regards,

The Grand High Exalted Mystic KIng Devoish

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#40) On June 15, 2010 at 9:12 AM, whereaminow (51.33) wrote:

LOL, nice!

David in The Kingdom (well, next door)

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#41) On June 15, 2010 at 9:43 AM, mhonarvar (< 20) wrote:

First of all..it had to be a video from FOX...im surprised Glen Beck and O'Reilly weren't there to yell at Barber the whole time...

Im sure the "heroic" little girls neighbour is going to fill out all the required employment forms, print the girl her pay stub and give her a paycheck for one hour of work...its called working under the table.

it's all extremes with you guys isn't it, there's no grey area...only black or white...just like that stupid poll 

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#42) On June 15, 2010 at 5:52 PM, devoish (99.08) wrote:

LOL, nice!

:-)

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