April 19, 2013
– Comments (21) |
RELATED TICKERS: JPM
Wheres the evidence? All I see is news sources I have never heard of making unbacked claims
If the government was to do its job and actually investigate maybe we would have not had Bernie,, who by the way utilized JPM, who knew he was a shame, but of course the word among many many individuals is that JPM is just a lackey of the FED and they have a rather incestuous relationship.
The evidence will never come to fruition, wanna guess why ? because no one will be willing to investigate and if there ever was to be an investigation or heaven forbid some kind of accountability or oversight it would be deemed that any manipulation is just good business ( legal for some ~ illegal for most others).
I know I may not understand all the intricacies about the markets, the futures, but I do understand and I can see a rip off in the making.
Just look at JPM's relationship with MF global ~ and how customer funds ~ just magically disapeared.
As I understand things, JP Morgan (and many other banks, but mostly JP Morgan) has many clients who want to be long silver, in the OTC or "Over The Counter" market and LBMA market, up to perhaps $100 billion to $200 billion worth of "silver" in "accounts". But JP Morgan (and other western banks) never went out and bought this silver in the first place, because there does not exist $100 billion to $200 billion worth of silver to buy in a world that produces and mines only about $6 billion (at $10/oz.) to $21 billion (at $30/oz) worth of silver per year. This puts JP Morgan (and other banks) in a natural short position, as they owe their clients 10-20 times more silver than the world produces annually. JP Morgan thus has this massive natural silver short exposure. To protect the bank from the silver short position, JP Morgan must cap silver prices, by shorting silver on the COMEX, where prices are set. Otherwise, as silver prices rise, the bank loses more and more on the silver they are supposedly holding for their clients. Only in that sense, does JP Morgan have "offsetting positions"; in other words, shorts on COMEX to back up or shore up JP Morgan's other losing short positions (client long positions)!
JP Morgan cannot offset such OTC positions in the OTC market. Except, in the sense I just explained, every single additional "sale" of silver in the OTC market protects and hedges every other sale, as all sales of "silver" in "accounts" to customers have the cumulative effect of preventing people from buying and taking delivery of real physical silver which would drive the silver price up.
The key reason why the London LBMA and OTC silver selling is so successful is that nobody ever asks for delivery of the silver, because there is a 20% tax on silver delivery in London. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_as_an_investment#Taxation
So youre completely convinced of something that you just admitted theres no evidence of? Why JPM? WHy not BAC with a huge naked short on copper?
at ~ 4:20- "silver is skyrocketing towards $29. A 30 yr high..." should have told you this is more than a couple yrs old when sil was pushing $40. Also, silver to $500? This puts gold at $8000. We'll see.
It's a commercial for a dealer. Glad it helped your understanding to the point you could "explain" things.
I don't see what's wrong with "manipulating" the price of silver. When has cornering a market ever worked? It hasn't. So let them bare the brunt. Why is it unlawful to buy as much of something as you want? Placing restrictions on silver buying and selling is the complete opposite of a free market
Well it certainly worked for John Rockefeller with oil. And he made even more when he was forced to break up his monopoly. Personally I don't believe there can ever be a true free market. And if you do allow an individual or entity to "corner" a particular market well then again you would no longer have a "free" one for that market.
P.S., enjoyed that video in #6 ;)
It is free in the sense that one cannot simply "corner" a market, without the intervention and force of government. If one were to "corner" a market, in a free market, they would have to do so through buying the entire supply from willing sellers. If a seller had a whif of the cornering, they would charge insane prices so that the corner-er did not profit. And yes, breaking it up did help Rockefeller....so, trying to stop it is pointless, as the cornering itself never works out, therefore the free market takes care of the "threat".
However the government has no problem cornering a market in policing, militia, organized sports, social welfare, lottery games, etc with the force of imprisonment and violence if one does not comply with the contract that one did not sign to be involved with this cornered market.
Except silver was cornered decades ago.
Except it wasnt, because it failed miseeably, and the hunts brothers lost their inherited oil fortune....did you actually read about them or did you just do a quick google search and assumed you knew the story?
Notice how the price of silver skyrocketed during the attempt, so he had to pay more and more each time, screwing himself
I lived through it so don't be a wiseguy. I was responding to this comment of yours:
It is free in the sense that one cannot simply "corner" a market, without the intervention and force of government.
What did the Hunt brothers in was the change in the margin rules for silver. Since they were massively leveraged that changed crushed them. The government had nothing to do with any of this. They are a classic example of the dangers of playing with high leverage.
Well the gov-ment was pretty good but really ugly at cornering the gold market... I remember something about a family sending their gold coins to be appraised and the gov-ment decided to keep them because they should have been confiscated by the gov-ment when the gov-ment decided it was a good idea to take all the gold away from the people.
Funny, did they take gold bars from the really rich ? and give them fiat currency to replace the gold ?
Franklin D. Roosevelt President of the United States of America April 5, 1933
What is it about Democratic presidents and their propensity to dip their sticks into places they shouldn't ?
Roosevelt reportedly had affairs outside his marriage, including one with Eleanor's social secretary Lucy Mercer which began soon after she was hired in early 1914. In September 1918, Eleanor found letters revealing the affair in Roosevelt's luggage, when he returned from World War I. According to the Roosevelt family, Eleanor offered Franklin a divorce so that he could be with the woman he loved, but Lucy, being Catholic, could not bring herself to marry a divorced man with five children. According to FDR biographer Jean Edward Smith, it is generally accepted that Eleanor indeed offered "to give Franklin his freedom." However, they reconciled after a fashion with the informal mediation of Roosevelt's adviser Louis McHenry Howe, and FDR promised never to see Lucy again. His mother Sara also intervened, and told Franklin that if he divorced his wife, he would bring scandal upon the family, and she "would not give him another dollar." However, Franklin broke his promise. He and Lucy maintained a formal correspondence, and began seeing each other again in 1941—and perhaps earlier. Lucy was even given the code name "Mrs. Johnson" by the Secret Service. Indeed, Lucy was with FDR on the day he died. Despite this, FDR's affair was not widely known until the 1960s. Roosevelt's son Elliott stated that Franklin also had a 20-year affair with his private secretary Marguerite "Missy" LeHand. Another son, James, stated that "there is a real possibility that a romantic relationship existed" between his father and Princess Märtha of Sweden, who resided in the White House during part of World War II; aides began to refer to her as "the president's girlfriend", and gossip linking the two romantically appeared in the newspapers.
The effect of these flirtations or affairs upon Eleanor Roosevelt is difficult to estimate. "I have the memory of an elephant. I can forgive, but I cannot forget," she wrote to a close friend. After the Lucy Mercer affair, any remaining intimacy left their relationship. Eleanor soon thereafter established a separate house in Hyde Park at Valkill, and increasingly devoted herself to various social and political causes. For the rest of their lives, the Roosevelts' marriage was more of a political partnership than an intimate relationship. The emotional break in their marriage was so severe that when FDR asked Eleanor in 1942—in light of his failing health—to come back home and live with him again, she refused
If the government had nothing to do with it (dont beleive that) then silver price fell because cornering doesnt work and you prove my point anyway...
It didn't work because the rules were changed on them. Read the link, it is why I posted it. And as I said Rockefeller cornered the oil market successfully. As other examples, look at early MSFT or GOOG or Old Ma Bell, they were all trying to "corner" their market. It took the Government to break them up or put in restrictions.
What stops any market "cornering" today are Governmental restrictions. AT&T had no shot at merging with T mobile (why the CEO is still in office after having thrown away literally $4 billion is shameful).
Andy, interested in your thoughts here. Would you think an argument could be made that "controling" a market could qualify as "cornering"? Or, say, if an entity controlled demand or price, could it also be considered as having "cornered" that market? I'm playing with the thought that a market could be "cornered" in ways other than the traditional sense of exclusive ownership of supply. Simply put, wouldn't a manipulated market be a "cornered" market- beyond the verbage? Legally, or realisticly, and hypothetically, of course?
Star you ask an excellent question, since in either case the end result could be the same. But on the other hand manipulating is trying to make the market do somewhat what you want it to do whereas "cornering" gives no leeway. A fine distinction in the end I suppose. Kudos on the comment.
Thanks for the kudos but not what I'm looking for. Just working on a brain fart and hoping for clarity from one with a legal mind.. thanks for you thoughts. Best.
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