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Teacherman1 (56.67)

Investors vs Taxpayers

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December 06, 2009 – Comments (8)

There have been many comments and "pundifications" on T.V., in blogs, in newspapers, in the Hallowed Halls of Congress ( snort), and can you believe it, even in CAPS; that investors and the markets are profiting at the expense of the taxpayers. Many good, and some not so good arguments are made to support this position. But I would like to take exception to this, (in my opinion) "myth".

I would submit that investors are the taxpayers.

Due to many factors, more and more of those who in the past were included in the ranks of "taxpayers", are no longer paying taxes. In fact, many have moved into the category of "taxreceivers"; as an ever decreasing percentage of the the populations, pays more and more of the taxes (refering primarily to income taxes here).

Yes, there are those on "Wall Street", that fit into a special category of their own, but we tend to overlook how many Americans really are investors, either directly or indirectly.

Some invest directly in the market for their own accounts, but there are also many more who invest through ownership in Mutual Funds, Hedge Funds, Pension Plans, Retirement Accounts, Insurance Companies, Annuities,the investments of companies that pay salaries,and many other avenues.

Even the "bailout" of Fannie and Freddie supports taxpayers (as well as taxreceivers) investments in homes, keeping their values from falling even further than they have, and hopefully bringing about a recovery sooner than might otherwise have happened.

Rather than belabor the point, ( I'm sure that others will be more than willing to point out the errors in my argument), I would simply state that Investors and Taxpayers are one and the same.

In the words of the immortal POGO, I will wrap it up by saying, "We have met the enemy, and it is us".

Good luck with your investments, Uncle Sam needs the money.

JMO and worth exactly what I am charging for it. 

Foolanthropy on. 

 

8 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On December 06, 2009 at 5:27 PM, tkell31 (24.10) wrote:

True, but obviously there is a matter of degree.  30% means a lot more to me then it does to someone trading millions of dollars.

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#2) On December 06, 2009 at 6:09 PM, paperpump (96.99) wrote:

good points teacherman..

much money has been spent on preventing the failure of our financial system, which has in turn sparked debate about their profits and earnings going to reward investors. But what about extensions to unemployment benefits and extensions on rebates to first time homebuyers in order to prop up the inflated value of U.S. assets (home prices) not only for U.S. banks balance sheets, but for the average homeowner as well. 

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#3) On December 06, 2009 at 6:45 PM, devoish (98.42) wrote:

Yes, there are those on "Wall Street", that fit into a special category of their own, but we tend to overlook how many Americans really are investors, either directly or indirectly.

Some invest directly in the market for their own accounts, but there are also many more who invest through ownership in Mutual Funds, Hedge Funds, Pension Plans, Retirement Accounts, Insurance Companies, Annuities,the investments of companies that pay salaries,and many other avenues.

The more often I hear that argument, to me the more likely that means the "taxpayer as investor" group is shrinking. And frankly I think the relevant number is not how many own stocks, but how many can live off them.

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#4) On December 06, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Teacherman1 (56.67) wrote:

My point was that there are not two different groups - Investors/Taxpayers.

The taxpayers who are on the "hook", are for the most part, the same ones who are benefiting from a large portion of the "bailout".

We lose on one hand, and win on the other.

There is not a large group of "taxpayers" who are bearing the burden of the bailout who are not in some way, to some extent, benefiting from it.

Yes, if we end up with "hyper inflation", all will suffer, but I object to the attempts to paint investors who benefit from a rising stock market as bad people who are doing so on the backs of the "taxpayers". For the most part, they are one and the same.

JMO and worth exactly what I am charging for it. 

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#5) On December 06, 2009 at 9:49 PM, tkell31 (24.10) wrote:

Winners/criminals - Builders, Bankers, and people who sold before it collapsed.

Losers - the innocent buyers still paying mortgages on houses they paid too much for because idiots took out mortgages they didnt have a chance in heck of paying back thereby driving up the price of housing.

Far too simple, but you get the point.  Figure out which group you belong in because teachers contention is far too simple as there are many investors/taxpayers in each of those groups yet some got the shaft and others got million dollar bonuses.

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#6) On December 06, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Teacherman1 (56.67) wrote:

I believe those who got million dollar bonuses, got million dollar bonuses before the bailout too. So was it really the bailout that got them the million dollar bonuses.

I believe I saw something the other day about the GS gang was going to have to take at least a part of their bonuses in stock.

It seems public opinion and some (I assume big) investors has dampened the party a little.

I am not defending those who profit exorbitantly from the bailout.

It is just when some congressman/congresswoman ( want to be politically correct here ) wants to make investors pay by coming up with some hairbrained idea, they don't seem to realize they are the same ones who are the taxpayers.

JMO and worth exactly what I am charging for it. 

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#7) On December 07, 2009 at 4:12 PM, lemoneater (79.16) wrote:

Virtual gift for you:

http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-One-Balloons-Puffin-Modern-Classics/dp/014240330X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260219899&sr=1-1

If you have never read it, you probably would enjoy it. "Merry Christmas!" to one of my favorite teachers that I have yet to meet.

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#8) On December 11, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Teacherman1 (56.67) wrote:

Thank you lemoneater.

An early Merry Christmas to you in case I forget to say so later. 

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