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Jesse: The US Bull Market in Smoke, Mirrors and Gullible Investors

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December 23, 2009 – Comments (12)

Another great post by Jesse at Jesse's Café Américain

The US Bull Market in Smoke, Mirrors and Gullible Investors

We have given quite a bit of coverage to the somewhat 'thin' veneer of recovery being spun by misleading government econmic statistics in the US.

And we have certainly noted the almost blatant manipulation in many US markets, including stocks and commodities where the banks and hedge funds have been pushing prices around, sometimes with the help of the government, in a disgraceful repudiation of any notion of reform.

Thanks to the Tylers at ZeroHedge we have two very nice charts to present the case that the recent continuation of the US stock market rally is due in large part to a Ponzi-like price manipulation largely in the after hours markets when trading is thin.

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12 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On December 23, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Option1307 (29.91) wrote:

Great article Bvine, those are some pretty sweet looknig charts. Thanks for sharing!

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#2) On December 23, 2009 at 3:05 PM, kdakota630 (29.74) wrote:

Ditto.

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#3) On December 23, 2009 at 3:27 PM, binve (< 20) wrote:

Thanks Option! Thanks kdakota!

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#4) On December 23, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Tastylunch (29.48) wrote:

I'm dissappointed. I was hoping for Jeese "the Body" Ventura. :(

Hey Happy Holidays Binve!

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#5) On December 23, 2009 at 3:42 PM, prose976 (< 20) wrote:

If you want to play in the game, you've got to know the rules and what you can get away with.  The market is a place, not unlike the swap meet, where vendors line up, many of them selling the same thing,  Depending on whether you're the buyer or the seller, your price is alway manipulated, because the value of what you're selling or buying is alway subjective to how much you and the other person want it.

If the market has been manipulated and you're uncomfortable with that, then don't buy or sell anything.  Otherwise, there are gains a'plenty to be had by anyone who knows how to play the game.

"Fairness" is not part of the game, and the price of ANYTHING has always been and always will be manipulated in some fashion.  Buyer beware!

Fool on!

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#6) On December 23, 2009 at 4:00 PM, binve (< 20) wrote:

Tasty, LOL! Sorry man. Next I'll post an article by Terry Savage, and it will be like "Savage: Save for Retirement, blah, blah" and you will think it is a post by Macho Man Randy Savage :) (actually, bad example, I won't be posting anything by Terry Savage) :)

Happy Holidays Tasty!!

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#7) On December 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM, binve (< 20) wrote:

prose,

Nice comments, but you are preaching to the choir.

Depending on whether you're the buyer or the seller, your price is alway manipulated, because the value of what you're selling or buying is alway subjective to how much you and the other person want it.

See my post: Regarding Economic Debates and Opinions: The Fallacy of "Purely Objective" Analysis - http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=305849

If the market has been manipulated and you're uncomfortable with that, then don't buy or sell anything.  Otherwise, there are gains a'plenty to be had by anyone who knows how to play the game.

I don't think that was the point of Jesse's post. The point was to show that the market movement, from a bullish perspective is largely illusory. Much of it is due to manipulation. And much of it was due to the liquidity injection via QE. Russiangambit has a great post on that (http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=315787&) Basically all the gains are largely because of the slosh of money at the macroeconomic level, not because a true bull market is forming and real long term investment demand is picking back up.

"Fairness" is not part of the game, and the price of ANYTHING has always been and always will be manipulated in some fashion.  Buyer beware!

Never said fairness was part of the game. But we can agree that buyers should beware (especially those who are seriously long).

Just offering a counterpoint, that's all.

Fool on!..

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#8) On December 23, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Tastylunch (29.48) wrote:

Jess the Body takes on Climate Change and 9/11!

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/12/jesse-ventura-body-slams-climate-change

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#9) On December 23, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Tastylunch (29.48) wrote:

Jesse the Body takes on Climate Change and 9/11!

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/12/jesse-ventura-body-slams-climate-change

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#10) On December 23, 2009 at 6:26 PM, binv271828 (< 20) wrote:

Interesting, I guess the Body never rests! :)

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#11) On December 24, 2009 at 2:41 PM, rexlove (99.28) wrote:

The blog does not make much sense. There's no market manipulation here. The reason stocks have advanced so much after hours is because that's when most companies report their earnings. 

And guess what....?

Most earnings have beat estimates. Hence the rise in stock values after-hours.

Binve - you're not going all Alstry on me - are you? 

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#12) On December 24, 2009 at 5:45 PM, binve (< 20) wrote:

rexlove,

There's no market manipulation here. The reason stocks have advanced so much after hours is because that's when most companies report their earnings.

I think there is a bit more to it than that. But you observation is a true one.

Binve - you're not going all Alstry on me - are you?

WHAT!!!!!! HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ... :)

Merry Christmas!..

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