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My Response to Catoismymotor

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April 23, 2010 – Comments (41)

Earlier today Catoismymotor left us with this little gem of a publicity stunt. I would like to respond:

Earth Day predictions of 1970. The reason you shouldn’t believe Earth Day predictions of 2009.

From: www.ihatethemedia.com

For the next 24 hours, the media will assault us with tales of imminent disaster that always accompany the annual Earth Day Doom & Gloom Extravaganza.

Ignore them. They’ll be wrong. We’re confident in saying that because they’ve always been wrong. And always will be.

Need proof? Here are some of the hilarious, spectacularly wrong predictions made on the occasion of Earth Day 1970.

“We have about five more years at the outside to do something.”
• Kenneth Watt, ecologist

“Civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”
• George Wald, Harvard Biologist

We are in an environmental crisis which threatens the survival of this nation, and of the world as a suitable place of human habitation.”
• Barry Commoner, Washington University biologist

“Man must stop pollution and conserve his resources, not merely to enhance existence but to save the race from intolerable deterioration and possible extinction.”
• New York Times editorial, the day after the first Earth Day

“Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make. The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”
• Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University biologist

“By…[1975] some experts feel that food shortages will have escalated the present level of world hunger and starvation into famines of unbelievable proportions. Other experts, more optimistic, think the ultimate food-population collision will not occur until the decade of the 1980s.”
• Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University biologist

“It is already too late to avoid mass starvation.”
• Denis Hayes, chief organizer for Earth Day

“Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”
• Peter Gunter, professor, North Texas State University

Of all the idiocy in this post, this first quote is my favorite and the only one I would like to respond to at this time. “We have about five more years at the outside to do something.”
• Kenneth Watt, ecologist - 1970.

We have been doing something. Please get out of the way.

 

350.org refers to the level in parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that is deemed to be a safe upper limit in order to avoid a climate tipping point. [4] African Wild Dog Conservancy Aga Khan Trust for Culture American Consumer Council - http://www.americanconsumercouncil.org American Indoor Air Quality Council Antinea Foundation Antipoisoner International[5] ATWA (ATWA International) Bellona Foundation Biofuelwatch Biosphere Expeditions BirdLife International BLOOM[6] Blue Ventures[7] Borneo Orangutan Survival Center for a World in Balance [8] Center for International Environmental Law Coal River Mountain Watch Conservation Foundation Conservation Law Foundation Earth Charter Initiative Earth First! Earth Island Institute Earth Liberation Front (ELF) Earth Liberation Prisoner Support Network (ELPSN) Earth Policy Institute EarthLink e.V. Earthwatch [9] Earth System Science Partnership [10], worldwide integrated study of the earth system which includes: DIVERSITAS an International Programme of Biodiversity Science [11] International Geosphere-Biosphere Programme (IGBP) World Climate Research Programme (WCRP) International Human Dimensions Programme on Global Environmental Change (IHDP) [12] Environmental Law Foundation (ELF) (UK) Environmental Investigation Agency Forests and the European Union Resource Network (FERN) Forest Stewardship Council ForestEthics Friends of Nature Friends of the Earth Gaia Mater (the mother Earth) Global Footprint Network Global Justice Ecology Project [13] Global Water Policy Project Global Witness Global Vision International Great Transition Initiative Green Cross International Greenpeace International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) International Analog Forestry Network International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS) International Institute for Sustainable Development International Network for Sustainable Energy (INFORSE) Legacy Foundation The Mountain Institute NatureServe Nicodemus Wilderness Project Regenesis - the Global Movement for Environment Sustainability, Liberty & Social Justice Rettet den Regenwald (Rainforest Rescue) [14] Tellus Institute The Climate Project The Nature Conservancy Sea Shepherd Conservation Society Stockholm Environment Institute (SEI) Surfrider Foundation Wetlands International Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society Wildlife Conservation Society Wolf Preservation Foundation (WPF) World Business Council for Sustainable Development Worldchanging World Conservation Union (IUCN) World Resources Institute (WRI) World Union for Protection of Life (WUPL) Worldwatch Institute World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) Xerces Society Yellowstone to Yukon Conservation Initiative youthNoise

 

41 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On April 23, 2010 at 9:23 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

African Conservation Foundation Environmental Foundation for Africa Tropical Wildlife and Environment Conservation [15] [edit] EuropeClimate Action Network - Europe (CAN-Europe) European Biomass Association European Eco-Forum European Environmental Bureau (EEB) INFORSE-Europe [edit] North AmericaFund for Wild Nature International Joint Commission North American Native Fishes Association Rivers Without Borders [edit] South AmericaAmazon Watch Rainforest Foundation Fund [edit] National[edit] AustraliaAustralian Conservation Foundation Australian Coal Alliance Australian Koala Foundation Australian Student Environment Network Australian Wildlife Conservancy Birds Australia Environment Victoria Greening Australia SA Gaia Foundation Landcare Australia Public Transport Users Association Rainforest Rescue The Wilderness Society (Australia) Wildlife Watch Australia

See also Category:Environmental organisations based in Australia.

[edit] AustriaTransitforum Austria Tirol Global 2000 [edit] BrazilFundação Águas do Piauí (FUNAGUAS) [16] [edit] BulgariaGorichka [edit] CanadaCanadian Association of Physicians for the Environment Canadian Environmental Law Association Canadian Environmental Network Canadian Institute for Environmental Law and Policy Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society David Suzuki Foundation Ecojustice Canada (formerly Sierra Legal Defence Fund) Earth Liberation Army (ELA) Green Tomorrow Greenpeace Canada[17] International Institute for Sustainable Development Manitoba Eco-Network Nature Canada Raging Grannies Sierra Club of Canada Sierra Legal Defence Fund Toronto Environmental Alliance (TEA) Toronto Environmental Coalition Western Canada Wilderness Committee[18]

See also Category:Environmental organizations based in Canada.

[edit] CroatiaEkološko društvo Zeleni Osijek

Zelena akcija/Friends of the Earth Croatia www.zelena-akcija.hr

[edit] Czech RepublicHnutí DUHA - Friends of the Earth Czech Republic [edit] Denmark[http://www.dn.dk/ Danmarks Naturfredningsforening (Danish Nature Protection Association) DIB Danish Organisation for Renewable Energy (OVE) OOA (Danish Antinuclear Movement) NOAH Natur og Ungdom (Nature and Youth) Nepenthes (Defending Rainforest) Nordic Folkecenter for Renewable Energy 92-gruppen (92-group, a coalition of Danish environmental NGOs) [edit] EgyptHabi Center for Environmental Rights [edit] FranceCLER GERES Helio International [edit] GermanyBOS Deutschland e.V. (Borneo Orangutan Survival Germany) Bund für Umwelt und Naturschutz Deutschland (BUND) = Friends of the Earth, Germany BUNDjugend (BUND's Youth organization) Naturschutzbund Deutschland (NABU) - German Nature Conservation Society Robin Wood

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#2) On April 23, 2010 at 9:24 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

[edit] HungaryEnergy Club Hungary E-misszio ETK [edit] Hong KongAction Blue Sky Campaign Clear the Air (Hong Kong) Friends of the Earth (HK) Green Power Greeners-action Hong Kong Dolphinwatch Lights Out Hong Kong Society for Protection of the Harbour The Conservancy Association WWF Hong Kong [edit] IndiaGLOBAL GANDHI MISSION[19]

Global Gandhi Mission is promoting THE SIMPLE WORLD ORDER, based on concepts of Mahatma (M.K.)Gandhi. SIMPLE LIVING is the need of the hour to curb excessive consumerism and wastage of natural resources.

Green Coalition Network[20]

Green Coalition Network is an environmental NGO devoted to improving public health standards, promoting sustainable development and protecting the environment.

Environment and Food Security Concerns[21]

green warriors of Tamil Nadu agricultural engineering college and research institute, agriuniversity Tamil Nadu

Indian Institute of Ecology and Environment[22]

Studies, training, research and consultancy in the areas of ecology, environment, disaster management, sustainable development, remote sensing, eco-tourism at the bachelor's and master's levels besides encyclopedic publications on environment related subjects carried out at A 15, Paryavaran Complex, South of Saket, New Delhi-110030, India 24hrs Helpline : +91-9810162127

Hariyali [23]

Hariyali is an organization set up for the protection and upgradation of environmental conditions. Main areas of its activities are large-scale plantation, more particularly, on denuded forest land, water harvesting and conservation and generating environmental awareness. It carries out most of its activities through the "Shramdaan" (voluntary labour) of students, employees from corporate sector and nature lovers. It is one of the leading facilitator for plantation activity for the corporate sector, educational institutes and social service organizations with appropriate infrastructure. It is based in Thane, a twin-city of Mumbai in Maharashtra State of India.

kislay the great organisation [edit] IndonesiaBorneo Orangutan Survival Foundation [edit] IranEarth Watchers Center (EWC) [edit] IrelandEnvironmental Conservation Organisation Gluaiseacht Irish Natural Forestry Foundation Irish Peatland Conservation Council (IPCC) [edit] IsraelIsrael Union for Environmental Defense (IUED), Adam Teva V'Din Green Movement (Israel), Green Movement (external link), HaTnua HaYeruka [edit] ItalyMinistero Dell'Ambiente E Tutela Del Territorio Ministry of Environment Istituto Superiore per la Protezione e la Ricerca Ambientale Environmental Protection Agency Lega Italiana Protezione Uccelli Legambiente Wwf Terra! onlus Greenpeace [edit] KenyaGreen Belt Movement [edit] LaosSustainable Laos Education Initiatives (SLEI) [edit] LebanonGreen Orient [edit] MacedoniaMacedonian Ecological Society [edit] MadagascarL'Homme et L'Environnement [edit] MaltaBirdLife Malta [edit] MexicoDefensores del Medio Ambiente de los Tuxtlas, AC [edit] NepalICIMOD CRT Environment Conservation And Research Center. (http://www.ecrc.org) [edit] The NetherlandsMilieudefensie - Friends of the Earth Netherlands [edit] New ZealandBuller Conservation Group Environment and Conservation Organisations of Aotearoa New Zealand (ECO) Greenpeace Aotearoa New Zealand Native Forest Restoration Trust New Zealand Ecological Restoration Network Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society of New Zealand Save Happy Valley Campaign TerraNature Trees for Survival Waipoua Forest Trust [edit] NorwayBalyena Foundation Eco-Agents Norwegian Society for the Conservation of Nature (Friends of the Earth Norway or Norges Naturvernforbund) Green Warriors of Norway (Norges Miljøvernforbund) Natur og Ungdom Zero Emission Resource Organisation [edit] PakistanRehbar Development Foundation Safwan Foundation Ecotourism Society Pakistan [24]

To make schools a source of awareness about environment is the goal educating about the surroundings at an early age. Range land conservation is another major aim.

[edit] Poland

Polish Ecological Club (PKE) 14 regional branch

[edit] PortugalQuercus (organization) Maria Hloist (organization) [edit] The PhilippinesHaribon Foundation [edit] SlovakiaFoundation for Alternative Energy (FAE) SZOPK [edit] South AfricaEarthlife Africa Koeberg Alert Cape Town Ecology Group [edit] TaiwanTzu-Chi Foundation - A Buddhist organization, similar to the American Red Cross, dedicated to serving disaster-stricken areas and environmental "activism." Wild at Heart (environmental group) [edit] TanzaniaSand County Foundation [edit] United KingdomAssociation for Environment Conscious Building Association for the Protection of Rural Scotland Bicycology Butterfly Conservation Scotland Camden Green Fair Campaign for Better Transport Camp for Climate Action Campaign to Protect Rural England CEEQUAL Centre for Alternative Technology (CAT) The Corner House Down to Earth Earth First! Earth Liberation Front (ELF) Edinburgh Natural History Scoiety Forest Peoples Programme Friends of the Earth England Wales and Northern Ireland Friends of the Earth Scotland Groundwork UK The Institution of Environmental Sciences Marine Conservation Society John Muir Trust Plane Stupid River of Flowers [25] RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Birds) RSBP Scotland Scottish Environment Protection Agency Scottish Natural Heritage Scottish Ornithologists' Club Scottish Wildlife Trust Sea Shepherd Conservation Society The Wildlife Trusts Town and Country Planning Association UK Environmental Law Association (UKELA) Woodland Trust

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#3) On April 23, 2010 at 9:25 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

[edit] United StatesAbalone Alliance (historic) Adirondack Mountain Club African American Environmentalist Association Allegheny Land Trust Alliance for Climate Protection Alliance to Save Energy American Bird Conservancy American Farmland Trust American Wind and Wildlife Institute Appalachian Voices Association of Environmental Professionals Californians for Population Stabilization Center for a New American Dream Center for Biological Diversity Chesapeake Bay Foundation Citizens Campaign for the Environment Citizens Environmental Coalition [26] Citizens League for Environmental Action Now [27] Conservation International Defend Oahu Coalition[28] Defenders of Wildlife Defense of Place[29] Earth First! Earth Island Institute Earth Liberation Army (ELA) Earth Liberation Front (ELF) EarthLab Ecologyfund.com Environment America Environmental Defense Fund Environmental Law Institute Environmental Life Force (ELF) Forest Guardians Global Green USA Greener Corners Public Space Recycling Programs [www.GreenerCorners.com] Greystone Nature Preserve[30] High Uintas Preservation Council Hudson River Sloop Clearwater Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology I Plant Trees[31] Izaak Walton League Keep America Beautiful League of Conservation Voters National Audubon Society National Geographic Society National Wildlife Federation National Wildlife Refuge Association Native Forest Council Natural Resources Defense Council Nature's Classroom NatureServe Negative Population Growth Neighborhood Parks Council New Jersey Audubon Society New York City Audubon Nicodemus Wilderness Project Partner Engineering and Science, Inc. Population Connection Population-Environment Balance Rainforest Action Network Republicans for Environmental Protection Rising Tide North America Sand County Foundation Save the Redwoods League Sea Shepherd Sierra Club Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition Student Conservation Association Student Environmental Action Coalition (SEAC) Texas Campaign for the Environment The Marine Mammal Center The Nature Conservancy The School for Field Studies The Wilderness Society TreePeople (founded by Andy Lipkis) Union of Concerned Scientists Waterkeeper Alliance WEACT Worldchanging Worldwatch Institute Youth Earth Savers (Y.E.S.) [edit] Other (to be categorized)The Resource Foundation The Civic Trust GREENGUARD Environmental Institute Environmental Desk to Elate the Nature (EDEN) Groundwork Industrial Workers of the World Essential Information Environmental Working Group Bird Protection Quebec Montana Wilderness Association The Earth Organization Earth Rangers Earth Share People & Planet Applied Environmental Research Foundation - AERF Banksia Environmental Foundation Bonneville Environmental Foundation (BEF) Chartered Institution of Water and Environmental Management Confederation of European Environmental Engineering Societies Creative Environmental Networks (CEN) Federation of Environmental Trade Associations ENFORAC (Environmental Forum for Action) Environment California Environmental and Energy Study Institute (EESI) Environmental Centre ARCTUROS Environmental Design Research Association (EDRA) Environmental groups and resources serving K–12 schools Environmental Justice Foundation Environmental Law Service (ELS) Environmental Protection UK Environmental Services Association Environmental Transport Association European Association of Environmental and Resource Economists (EAERE) Green Camel Bell Green Life DC Institute for Energy and Environmental Research (IEER) National Council for Science and the Environment (NCSE) National Registry of Environmental Professionals (NREP) New Zealand Institute of Environmental Health (NZIEH) Pacific Environment Palestinian Environmental NGOs Network Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER) Science & Environmental Policy Project (SEPP) The Environmental Institute (O Instituto Ambiental [OIA]) The Ocean Conservancy West Harlem Environmental Action (WEACT) 41pounds.org Albatross Foundation USA Arlington Coalition on Transportation (ACT) Asociación pola defensa da ría ATREE Blue Wedges Builders for the Bay CERE India Clean Ocean Foundation Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow Ecotrust Energy Probe Friends of the Environment Green Actors of West Africa (GAWA) Green Alliance Idea Wild [32] International Council on Nanotechnology (ICON) London Islamic Network for the Environment (LINE) Preserve Our Island Project AWARE Resources for the Future (RFF) Riverkeeper Sibuyanons Against Mining Sierra Youth Coalition / Coalition Jeunesse Sierra Society for the Environment (SocEnv) Stop Climate Chaos Sustainable Silicon Valley (SSV) Water Environment Research Foundation (WERF) WILD Foundation Animal Protection and Rescue League (APRL) Honor the Earth Zalul Environmental Association Energy Action Coalition

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#4) On April 23, 2010 at 9:30 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

And this list is not complete,  for example, count the number of environmental organisations listed for Australia and then compare it to this list of environmental organisations that the Australian Gov't recognises:

Aid/Watch IncAid/Watch Fund13/06/96Albany Biodiversity ParkAlbany Biodiversity Park Gift Fund29/12/05Albury-Wodonga Environment Centre IncAWEC Murray Environment Fund12/11/96Alternative Technology Association IncRenewable Energy Development Trust Fund21/02/94ANGAIR IncorporatedANGAIR Fund11/09/02Animals Asia Foundation (Australia) LimitedAnimals Asia Fund04/10/05APNIEVE Environmental Education TrustAPNIEVE Environmental Education Fund19/09/07AQWA FoundationAQWA Foundation Gift Fund20/01/03Arid Lands Environment Centre IncALEC Fund21/02/94Asian Rhino Project IncorporatedAsian Rhino Conservation Fund04/10/05Armidale Tree Group IncArmidale Tree Group Fund19/05/98Australasian Regional Association of Zoological Parks and Aquaria IncARAZPA Wildlife Conservation Fund13/02/07Australian and New Zealand Solar Energy Society LimitedRenewable Energy Promotion Fund19/08/98Australian Association for Environmental Education IncorporatedAustralian Association for Environmental Education Gift Fund25/02/07Australian Bird Study Association IncAustralian Bird Study Association Fund for Avian Research12/11/96Australian Bush Heritage Fund LtdAustralian Bush Heritage Fund11/06/93Australian Carbon Biosequestration Initiative LimitedBig Green Umbrella Public Fund20/06/07Australian Centre for Environmental Sustainability LtdTrue Blue, Go Green Fund12/10/07Australian Coral Reef Society Inc Australian Coral Reef Society Fund
16/12/09Australian Desert Expeditions LtdAustralian Desert Expeditions Public Fund24/11/09Australian Ecosystems Foundation IncorporatedAustralian Ecosystems Foundation Incorporated Public Fund09/05/03Australian Environment Foundation LimitedAustralian Environment Fund03/11/05Australian Environmental Grantmakers NetworkAustralian Environmental Grantmakers Gift Fund26/11/09Australian Landscape TrustAustralian Landscape Trust Gift Fund12/09/96Australian Marine Conservation Society IncAustralian Marine Conservation Society Public Fund11/06/93Australian Marine Environment Protection Association IncorporatedAUSMEPA Fund06/06/01Australian National Wildlife Collection FoundationAustralian National Wildlife Collection Fund09/03/00Australian Native Dog Conservation Society LimitedMerigal Dingo Sanctuary Gift Fund23/08/99Australian Network for Plant Conservation IncANPC Public Fund05/07/07Australian Orang-utan Project IncorporatedAustralian Orang-utan Project Conservation Fund24/07/02Australian Platypus Conservancy IncAustralian Platypus Conservancy Research and Conservation Fund13/06/96Australian Rainforest Conservation Society IncRainforest Conservation Fund12/03/93Australian Rainforest FoundationAustralian Rainforest Fund12/11/96Australian Rescue and Rehabilitation of Wildlife (A.R.R.O.W.) Association IncArrow Gift Fund05/12/08Australian River Restoration Centre LtdAustralian River Restoration Centre Fund29/08/08Australian Seabird Rescue IncLance Ferris Memorial Fund 24/11/09Australian Speleological Federation IncorporatedThe Australian Speleological Federation Gift Fund06/06/01Australian Tropical Research Foundation LtdAUSTROP Gift Fund2/12/93Australian Trust for Conservation Volunteers LtdAustralian Trust for Conservation Volunteers Gift Fund12/03/93Australian Wildlife ConservancyAustralian Wildlife Conservancy Fund13/06/96Australian Wildlife Protection Council (Victoria) IncAWPC Public Fund10/04/95Australian Wildlife Rescue Service Central Queensland IncorporatedAustralian Wildlife Rescue Service Inc Trust Fund30/07/01Australia's Virtual Herbarium TrustAustralia's Virtual Herbarium Public Fund04/04/02Avoca TrustAvoca Trust Fund09/02/01Avon Valley Environmental Society IncAvon Valley Environmental Society Public Fund08/06/00AWARE Australian Wildlife Assistance Rescue and Education IncorporatedAWARE Wildlife Fund20/10/06 B4C - Bulimba Creek Catchment Co-ordinating Committee IncorporatedBulimba Creek Environment Fund09/05/03Balcombe Estuary Rehabilitation Group IncBalcombe Estuary Rehabilitation Group Inc Public Gift Fund19/05/98Ballarat Renewable Energy and Zero Emissions (B.R.E.A.Z.E.) IncThe BREAZE Fund19/09/07Barkindji Biosphere LimitedBarkindji Biosphere Public Fund23/12/04Barung Landcare Association IncorporatedBarung Environmental Gift Fund19/08/04Bat Rescue IncorporatedBat Rescue Fund15/06/06Bendigo Sustainability Group Inc
Sustain Bendigo Fund24/11/09Bicycle New South Wales Environmental TrustBicycle New South Wales Environmental13/05/04Big Scrub Environment Centre IncBig Scrub Environment Centre Gift Fund10/04/95Big Scrub Rainforest Landcare GroupBig Scrub Rainforest Fund10/08/06BioManagement LimitedBioManagement Fund24/07/02BIO-R OZBio-R Conservation Fund19/06/08Bird Observation & Conservation Australia
Fund For Birds29/06/94Blackbutt Support Group IncBlackbutt Support Group Gift Fund19/05/98Black Throated Finch TrustBlack Throated Finch Trust Fund19/06/08Blackburn and District Tree Preservation SocietyBlackburn and District Environment Protection Fund19/06/08Blue Mountains Conservation Society IncBlue Mountains Conservation Society Public Gift Fund12/11/96Blue Mountains Wildplant Rescue Service IncBlue Mountains Wildplant Rescue Fund13/02/07Blue Mountains World Heritage Institute LimitedBlue Mountains World Heritage Fund31/10/05Bonobo Conservation Initiative Australia LimitedBonobo Conservation Initiative Australia Fund05/12/08Borneo Orangutan Survival (BOS) Australia IncBorneo Orangutan Survival Fund05/07/07The Bower Re-Use and Repair Centre Co-operative LimitedThe Bower Fund04/10/05Brian Robinson FoundationBrian Robinson Foundation Fund20/10/06 Bribie Island Environmental Protection Association IncB.I.E.P.A. Public Environment Fund31/08/94Bridgetown Greenbushes Friends of the Forest IncorporatedBridgetown Greenbushes Friends of the Forest Public Fund31/05/04Bridled Nailtail Wallaby Charitable TrustBridled Nailtail Wallaby Fund19/06/08Brisbane Environment TrustBrisbane Environment Public Fund23/08/99Bug BlitzBug Blitz Public Fund 24/11/09Bunya Community Environmental Association IncKumbartcho Sanctuary Environmental Fund29/08/08Burdekin Solutions LtdBurdekin Solutions Public Fund 24/11/09Bushfire CRC LimitedBushfire Research Fund12/10/07Busselton Community Garden IncorporatedBusselton Community Garden Public Fund25/02/07Busselton-Dunsborough Environment Centre IncorporatedBusselton-Dunsborough Environment Centre Incorporated Gift Fund Account19/08/98Busselton Jetty Environment and Conservation AssociationBusselton Jetty Environment Fund09/03/00Cairns and Far North Environment Centre IncCAFNEC Gift Fund2/12/93Caldera Environment Centre IncCaldera Conservation Fund13/06/96Canberra Ornithologists Group IncCanberra Birds Conservation Fund08/06/00Cape to Cape Catchments Group (Inc.)CCG Public Fund17/10/07Capricorn Conservation Council IncCapricorn Conservation Council Inc Donation Fund19/05/98Carbon Community FoundationCarbon Community Gift Fund13/02/09Carbon Neutral LtdCarbon Neutral Gift Fund19/09/07Cardinia Environment Coalition IncorporatedBioLinks Environment Fund1/02/05Care for the Bush TrustCare for the Bush Public Fund30/07/01Carrajung Conservation Reserve Association IncorporatedThe Gift Fund25/06/98Catholic Earthcare Australia TrustCatholic Earthcare Australia Fund27/02/06Catholic Education South Australia Environmental TrustCatholic Education South Australia Environmental Public Fund10/05/06Centennial Parklands FoundationCentennial Parklands Gift Fund24/08/98Central Coast Indian Myna Action Group IncorporatedCCIMAG Fund04/10/05Central Downs Landcare Group IncorporatedCentral Downs Landcare Public Fund1/02/05Centre for Environment EducationAustralia Incorporated CEE Australia Environment Fund30/06/05Centre for Sustainability LeadershipCentre for Sustainability Leadership Fund19/09/07CERES [Centre for Education and Research in Environmental Strategies] IncCERES Environmental Fund13/06/96Citizens Wildlife Corridors Armidale IncCitizens Wildlife Corridors Fund09/02/01Claudio Alcorso Foundation Environmental TrustClaudio Alcorso Foundation Environmental Public Fund10/09/02Clean Ocean Foundation IncorporatedClean Ocean Fund30/07/01Clean Up Australia LimitedClean Up Australia Environment Fund31/07/98Clean Up Israel (Australia) LtdThe Clean Up Israel Fund05/07/07Climate Action Network Australia IncorporatedCANA Public Fund27/09/01Climate Institute (Australia) LtdClimate Institute Gift Fund16/12/09Cockburn Wetlands Education Centre IncorporatedWetlands Education Trust Fund19/08/04Cool Australia TrustCool Australia Fund 24/11/09Coolum District Coast Care Group IncCDCC Public Fund19/06/08Community Environment Network Inc. Community Environment Network Public Gift Fund11/09/02Community for Coastal and Cassowary Conservation IncC4 Gift Fund13/06/96Community Land Management IncorporatedCLM Public Fund19/08/04Condamine Catchment Natural Resource Management Corporation LtdCondamine Eco Fund14/10/08Conservation Council of South Australia IncConservation Council of South Australia Gift Fund12/03/93Conservation Council of the South-East Region and Canberra Inc / Canberra and South-East Region Environment Centre IncBogong Fund for the Environment and Conservation in Canberra and the South-East Region29/06/94Conservation Council of Western Australia IncConservation Trust of Western Australia12/03/93Conway Wilderness TrustConway Wilderness Fund20/06/07Coolum Cliffs Boardwalk IncorporatedCoolum Boardwalk Project Public Fund09/05/03Daintree Rainforest Foundation LtdDaintree Rainforest Preservation Fund11/06/93Darling Range Wildlife Shelter IncorporatedDarling Range Shelter Public Fund03/11/05Days of Change FoundationDays of Change Foundation Gift Fund 24/11/09Denmark Environment Centre IncDenmark Environment Centre Tax Deductible Donations Fund2/12/93Devilbend Foundation Inc
Devilbend Conservation Reserve Trust Fund12/10/07Devils in Danger Foundation IncDevils in Danger Foundation Public Fund05/07/07Doctors for the Environment (Australia) IncorporatedDEA Fund04/10/05Dolphin Research Institute IncorporatedDolphin Research Institute Environmental Fund08/05/02Dunkeld Arboretum Development Group IncorporatedDunkeld Arboretum Development Group Incorporated Gift Account23/08/99Eagles Nest Wildlife Hospital IncorporatedEagles Nest Wildlife Rescue Fund04/10/05Earth Foundation Australia LtdEarth Foundation Australia Fund21/02/94Earth Policy Centre IncEarth Policy Fund13/02/07Earth TrustThe Earth Fund09/05/03Eastern Hills & Murray Plains Catchment Group IncEastern Hills & Murray Plains Catchment Group Gift Fund12/10/07EcoIntegrity IncEcoIntegrity Fund29/08/08Eco-Transit Sydney IncorporatedEco-Transit, Sydney - Public Gift Fund27/09/01Elementree IncorporatedElementree Environmental Restoration Fund25/02/07Environment Defenders Office (Victoria) LtdEnvironment Defenders Office (Victoria) Gift Fund2/12/93Environment East Gippsland IncorporatedEast Gippsland Forest Fund19/05/98Environment House IncEnvironment House Tax Deductible Donations Fund31/05/04Environment Tasmania IncEnvironment Tasmania Public Fund13/02/09Environment Victoria IncEnvironment Victoria Trust12/03/93Environmental Defender's Office LtdEnvironmental Defence Fund10/04/95Environmental Defender's Office of Northern Queensland IncorporatedEnvironmental Defender's Office of Northern Queensland Tax Deductible Donations Fund23/03/99Environmental Defender's Office (Qld) IncEDO Tax Deductible Donations Fund29/06/94Environmental Defenders Office (SA) IncEnvironmental Defenders Office (SA) Gift Fund13/06/96Environmental Defender's Office WA Inc

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#5) On April 23, 2010 at 9:31 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

Environmental Water TrustEnvironmental Water Fund28/08/08Environs Australia: Local Government Environment Network IncorporatedLocal Solutions10/09/02Environs Kimberley IncorporatedEnvirons Kimberley Gift Fund23/08/99Far North Queensland Wildlife Rescue Association IncFNW Wildlife Rescue Fund05/12/08F.A.U.N.A. (Fostercare of Australia's Unique Native Animals) Association IncorporatedF.A.U.N.A. Public Fund01/12/03Fauna and Flora International AustraliaFauna and Flora International Australia Fund05/12/08Fauna Rehabilitation FoundationFauna Focus Fund24/06/03Fauna Rescue of S.A. IncorporatedFauna Rescue of SA Inc Gift Fund17/12/99Fauna Rescue Whitsundays Association IncorporatedWhitsundays Fauna Rescue Fund20/06/07FAWNA [For Australian Wildlife Needing Aid] (NSW) IncFAWNA (NSW) Public Fund13/06/96FAWNA IncorporatedFAWNA Incorporated Gift Fund27/08/01Field and Game Australia Inc Wetlands Environmental Taskforce TrustWetlands Environmental Taskforce Public Fund24/07/02Fisheries Habitat Improvement FundFisheries Habitat Improvement Public Fund08/06/00FNPW Gift Fund TrustFNPW Gift Fund09/02/01FNQ NRM LimitedNatural Capital Fund27/02/06Foundation for Australia's Most Endangered Species IncFoundation for Australia's Most Endangered Species Gift Fund 31/08/94Foundation for Rabbit-Free Australia IncAnti-Rabbit Research Council Trust21/02/94Free the Bears Fund IncorporatedFree the Bears Public Fund19/08/04Friends of Attadale Foreshore IncorporatedFOAF Public Fund31/05/04Friends of Chauncy Vale IncChauncy Vale Special Donations Fund13/06/96Friends of Fleays Association IncFriends of Fleays Conservation Fund05/12/08Friends of Gardiner's Creek Valley IncFriends of Gardiner's Creek Valley Gift Fund12/09/95Friends of Kings Park IncFriends of Kings Park Fund05/12/08Friends of Kooloonbung Creek Nature Park IncFriends of Kooloonbung Creek Nature Park Gift Fund29/06/94Friends of Lismore Rainforest Botanic Gardens IncorporatedLismore Rainforest Botanic Gardens Gift Fund13/06/96Friends of Lord Howe Island IncorporatedFriends of LHI Gift Fund09/05/03Friends of Parks IncFriends of Parks Gift Fund12/11/96Friends of Stirling Linear Park IncorporatedFriends of Stirling Linear Park Fund14/06/02Friends of the Australian National Botanic Gardens IncorporatedFriends of the ANBG Public Fund01/12/03Friends of the Earth AustraliaFriends of the Earth (Australia) Fund18/08/02Friends of the Earth (Fitzroy) IncFriends of the Earth Fund13/06/96Friends of the Elms IncorporatedFriends of the Elms Public Fund06/06/01Friends of the Gold Coast Regional Botanic Gardens IncFriends of the Gold Coast Regional Botanic Gardens Gift Fund31/10/05Friends of the Koalas IncFriends of the Koalas Gift Fund13/06/96Friends of the Koala IncFriends of the Koala Care Fund29/06/94Friends of the Long Lost Phasmid IncPhasmid Fund19/06/08Friends of the Porongurup Range IncorporatedPorongurup Conservation Fund Public Fund20/01/03Frogs Australia Network IncorporatedFrogs Australia Network Public Fund04/10/05Frog Decline Reversal Project IncorporatedSave Our Frogs Fund20/10/06 Fungimap IncAustral Fungi Fund05/07/07Future Environment AssociationFuture Environment Fund11/08/04Futurefish Foundation TrustFuturefish Foundation Public Fund31/10/05Futureworld - National Centre for Appropriate Technology IncN.C.A.T. Environment Gift Fund12/09/95Gecko-Gold Coast and Hinterland Environment Council Association IncorporatedGECKO Public Fund12/11/96Genesis FoundationGenesis Foundation07/07/95Gilbert's Potoroo Action Group IncorporatedGPAG Public Tax Deductible Donations Fund31/05/04Global Energy Network Institute Foundation LimitedGENI Foundation Ltd Public Fund13/04/99Global Green Plan LimitedGlobal Green Plan Fund23/12/04Gosford City Council Protection of the Environment TrustGosford City Council Protection of the Environment Public Fund05/07/07Goulburn Valley EcoParkEcoPark Public Fund
24/11/09Goulburn Valley Environment Group IncorporatedGoulburn Valley Environment Group Public Fund10/09/02Gould Group LimitedGould Group Limited Fund03/11/05Great Barrier Reef FoundationGreat Barrier Reef Foundation Fund09/02/01Great Lakes Environment Association IncGreat Lakes Environment Association Inc Public Fund29/09/99Green Cross Australia LimitedGreen Cross Australia Support Fund19/06/08Greenfleet TrustGreenfleet Fund26/06/01Greening Australia (NT) IncorporatedGreenfund NT14/06/02Greening Australia (Qld) LimitedGreening Australia Fund Queensland22/05/07Greening Australia (Tasmania) IncorporatedGreening Tasmania Fund09/10/02Greening Australia (Vic)Greening Australia Fund Victoria24/11/09Greening Australia (Western Australia) IncorporatedGreening Australia (Western Australia) Public Fund09/05/03Greening Western Australia IncTrees for Tomorrow Public Trust Fund13/06/96Greenpeace Australia Pacific LimitedThe Greenpeace Trust29/06/94Green TrustGreen Trust Public Fund06/06/01Gulf Barramundi Restocking Association IncorporatedGulf Barramundi Restocking Association Incorporated Public Fund06/06/01Gympie and District Land Care Group IncorporatedGympie and District Landcare Public Fund28/03/00Habitat Restoration FundHabitat Restoration Gift Fund19/06/08Holbrook Landcare Group LimitedHolbrook Landcare Fund09/02/01Humane Society International IncHumane Society International No. 3 Account12/09/95Hunter Environment Lobby IncHunter Environment Lobby Fund13/02/09Information for Action IncorporatedInformation for Action Public Fund09/05/03The Institute for Earth Education Australia (SA) IncorporatedEarth Education - Australia Fund04/10/05Institute of Health and Environmental Research IncorporatedThe Institute of Health and Environmental Research Fund19/08/04International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives - Australia/New Zealand LimitedICLEI - Aust/NZ Public Fund08/05/02International Environmental Weed FoundationIEWF Public Fund13/02/07 International Fund for Animal Welfare (Australia) Pty LimitedIFAW28/06/01International RiverfoundationInternational Riverfoundation Fund31/05/04Invasive Species Council IncorporatedInvasive Species Council Fund09/05/03It's Time Foundation LimitedIt's Time Foundation Limited Fund05/12/08JECO: The Jewish Ecological Coalition IncorporatedJECO Environmental Gift Fund20/10/06 Kanyana Wildlife Rehabilitation Centre IncKanyana Wildlife Rehabilitation Centre Gift Fund12/11/96Keep Australia Beautiful Council (NSW)Keep Australia Beautiful (NSW) Gift Fund15/06/06Keep Australia Beautiful National Association IncorporatedKeep Australia Beautiful National Association Gift Fund20/06/07The Keep Australia Beautiful Council (Vic.) IncorporatedKeep Australia Beautiful Victoria Gift Fund04/10/05Kimberley Toad Busters IncorporatedKimberley Toad Buster Fund09/11/06Kuranda EnviroCare IncorporatedKuranda EnviroCare Gift Fund23/08/99Ku-ring-gai Bat Conservation Society IncorporatedBat Conservation Gift Fund

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#6) On April 23, 2010 at 9:32 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

Lake Cowal Foundation LimitedLake Cowal Foundation Public Gift Fund27/09/01Lake Macquarie Landcare Network IncLake Macquarie Landcare Network Public Fund19/06/08Lamington Natural History Association IncLamington Natural History Association Inc Donation Fund12/09/95Landcare SJ IncLandcare SJ Public Fund05/07/07Launceston Environment Centre IncorporatedLaunceston Environment Centre Public Fund20/01/03Lawyers for Forests IncorporatedLawyers for Forests Gift Fund03/11/05Little Desert Flora and Fauna Foundation IncorporatedLittle Desert Flora and Fauna Foundation Environment Fund10/10/00Little River Landcare Group IncLittle River Landcare Public Fund16/12/09Live and Learn Environmental Education IncorporatedLive and Learn Public Fund14/06/02Liverpool Plains Land Management CommitteeLiverpool Plains Environmental Fund28/08/08Lockyer Catchment Association IncorporatedCaring for Our Lockyer Fund19/08/04Logan-Albert Rivers Catchment Association IncLogan-Albert Rivers Catchment Association Public Fund12/10/07Macadamia Conservation TrustMacadamia Conservation Fund13/02/07Macarthur Centre for Sustainable Living LtdMacarthur Centre for Sustainable Living Public Fund13/02/07Macedon Ranges Sustainability Group IncMacedon Ranges Sustainability Group Fund 24/11/09Mackay Conservation Group IncMackay Conservation Group Public Fund11/06/93Macquarie Valley Landcare Group IncMacquarie 2100 Public Fund26/06/01Macquarie Wetlands Association IncMacquarie Wetlands Environmental Fund05/12/08Magnetic Island Nature Care Association IncorporatedMagnetic Island Nature Care Association Incorporated Public Fund27/08/01Maleny District Green Hills FundMaleny District Green Hills Gift Fund13/06/96Malleefowl Preservation Group IncCommunity Conservation Trust Fund12/11/96Mansfield Agricultural Land TrustMansfield Agricultural Land Trust Gift Fund10/08/06Marine Care - Ricketts Point IncorporatedMarine Care Public Fund1/02/05Marine Discovery Centre, Bondi Beach IncorporatedMarine Discovery Donation Fund06/06/01Marine Stewardship Council TrustMarine Stewardship Council Fund19/08/04Maroochy Waterwatch IncorporatedMRCAN Waterwatch Inc Fund19/08/04Mary Cairncross Association IncFriends of Mary Cairncross Reserve Fund09/02/01Mary River Catchment Coordination Association IncorporatedMary River Catchment Public Fund03/11/05Merri Creek Management Committee IncMerri Creek Environment Fund08/06/00M.A.T.F. TrustMarine Animal Tracking Fund05/12/08Millennium Kids IncMillenium Kids Enviro Fund16/12/09Mineral Policy InstituteAustralian Rivers and Mineral Policy Institute Gift Fund13/06/96Mitchell River Watershed Management Group IncMitchell River Group Public Fund10/08/06Moggill Creek Catchment Management Group IncMoggill Creek Catchment Fund05/12/08Moggill Koala Hospital Association IncorporatedMoggill Koala Hospital Association Inc Public Fund10/10/00Molonglo Catchment Group IncMolonglo Environmental Heritage Fund13/02/09Mooloolah River Waterwatch and Landcare IncorporatedMooloolah River Waterwatch and Landcare Public Fund03/11/05Moonee Ponds Creek Co-ordination Committee IncMoonee Ponds Creek Environment Fund14/10/08Moreton Island Protection Committee IncThe MIPC Public Fund05/07/07Mornington Peninsula and Western Port Biosphere Reserve Foundation LimitedMornington Peninsula and Western Port Biosphere Reserve Foundation Fund11/08/04Mount Alexander Sustainability Group IncorporatedMount Alexander Sustainability Fund10/08/06Mount Pleasant Natural Resource Centre IncMPNRC Fund05/12/08Murray Catchment Management Authority Charitable TrustCorroboree Frog Conservation Fund05/12/08Murray Darling Association IncorporatedMurray Darling Association Environmental Foundation19/08/98Myall Park Botanic Garden LimitedMyall Park Botanic Garden Gift Fund25/06/97MyEnvironment IncMyEnvironment Public Fund19/09/07Namoi Valley Environmental Protection Association IncNamoi Valley Environmental Protection Fund16/12/09National Parks Australia Council IncNational Parks Australia Council Tax Deductible Donations Fund08/06/00Native Animal Education Sanctuary LimitedPotoroo Fund20/06/07Native Animal Network Association IncNative Animal Network Fund19/09/07Native Animal Trust IncFriends of the Native Animal Trust Fund19/05/98Natural Capital Protection TrustNatural Capital Protection Fund20/10/06 Natural Resources Conservation League of VictoriaNRCL Trees Fund31/08/94Nature and Society Forum IncNature and Society Forum Public Fund12/09/95Nature Conservation Council of NSW IncNature Conservation Council of NSW Environment Gift Fund29/06/94Nature Refuge Landholders' Association - Queensland IncorporatedNature Refuge Landholders' Association (Queensland) Public Fund15/06/06New South Wales Bird Atlassers IncorporatedNew South Wales Bird Atlassers Incorporated Public Fund19/08/98New South Wales Wildlife Information and Rescue Service IncNSW Wildlife Information and Rescue Service Public Gift Fund29/06/94Noah's Ark Wildlife Coalition IncNoah's Ark Environment Fund31/05/04Noosa and District Landcare Group IncorporatedNoosa and District Landcare Environment Fund09/05/03Noosa Integrated Catchment Association IncorporatedThe Noosa River Catchment Fund15/06/06Noosa Parks Association IncNoosa Parks Association Gift Fund25/06/93Norman Wettenhall FoundationNorman Wettenhall Foundation13/06/96North Coast Environment Council IncNorth Coast Environment Council Public Donations Fund29/06/94North East Downs Landcare Group IncNorth East Downs Landcare Group Inc Public Fund09/02/01North East Tasmania Land TrustNorth East Tasmanian Land Trust Fund28/08/08North Metro Conservation Group IncThe Catchment Care Environment Fund12/10/07North-West Environment Centre IncNorth-West Environment Centre Public Fund 24/11/09Northern Agricultural Catchments Council IncThe Northern Agricultural Catchments Council Fund28/08/08Northern Gulf Resource Management Group LtdNorthern Gulf NRM Public Fund05/07/07Northern Rivers Environment TrustNorthern Rivers Environment Public Trust Fund10/08/06Northern Rivers Wildlife Carers IncPublic Fund of the Northern Rivers Wildlife Carers13/06/96Northern Tablelands Wildlife Carers IncNorthern Tablelands Wildlife Carers Public Fund12/11/96Northey Street City Farm Association IncorporatedThe Environment Fund08/05/02North Head Sanctuary Foundation IncorporatedNorth Head Sanctuary Foundation Public Fund01/12/03Northern Illawarra Residents Action GroupNIRAG Incorporated Sandon Point Coastal Park Fund30/06/05North Queensland Conservation Council IncNorth Queensland Environment Fund31/08/94North Queensland Wildlife Care IncorporatedNorth Queensland Wildlife Care Public Fund

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#7) On April 23, 2010 at 9:33 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

Ocean N Environment LimitedOcean N Environment, Save Our Seas Fund (SOS Fund)19/08/98Ocean Watch Australia LimitedOcean Watch Fund31/10/05ORRCA IncORRCA Public Gift Fund12/09/95Oxley Creek Catchment Association IncorporatedOxley Creek Catchment Association Public Fund27/08/01Oxygen Farm Association IncorporatedOxygen Farm Public Fund30/07/01Oz GREEN - Global Rivers Environmental Education Network (Australia) IncFund for the Rivers25/06/97P2: People and Parks FoundationP2: People and Parks Foundation Public Fund03/11/05Paddy Pallin Foundation TrustPaddy Pallin Natural Environment Fund19/09/07Painted Dog Conservation IncorporatedPainted Dog Conservation Incorporated Public Fund03/11/05Pambula Wetlands and Heritage Project IncorporatedPanboola Fund09/05/03Parkes and Districts Landcare Steering Committee IncorporatedParkes and Districts Landcare Environmental Fund14/06/02Parklands Albury Wodonga LimitedParklands Public Fund27/02/06Parklands Foundation LtdParklands Fund27/02/06Pelican and Seabird Rescue IncThe Pelican and Sea Rescue Fund19/06/08Penguin FoundationPenguin Foundation Gift Fund30/06/05Permaculture International LimitedPermaculture International Public Fund19/08/98Petrie Creek Catchment Care Group IncorporatedPetrie Creek Public Fund23/12/04Phillip Island Conservation Society IncorporatedThe Phillip Island Conservation Society Public Fund1/02/05Pittwater Environmental TrustPittwater Environmental Foundation Fund20/10/06 Pittwater Natural Heritage Association IncPittwater Natural Heritage Association Public Gift Fund16/03/01Planet Ark Environmental FoundationPlanet Ark Environmental Foundation Public Fund14/10/08Project Platypus Association IncorporatedProject Platypus Public Fund04/10/05Protect the Kimberley LtdThe Protect the Kimberley Fund14/10/08Portland Eco LimitedPortland Eco Trust Fund31/05/04Port Phillip EcoCentre IncorporatedPort Phillip EcoCentre Public Fund27/09/01Pristine Ecoscene LimitedPristine Ecoscene Public Trust Fund23/03/99Project Aware (Asia Pacific)Project Aware Public Fund14/06/02Project Dolphin Safe Association IncorporatedProject Dolphin Safe Fund04/10/05Project Jonah Australia IncProject Jonah Australia Gift Fund21/02/94Protection of the Earth and Wildlife Association IncProtection of the Earth and Wildlife Association Public Environmental Gift Fund13/06/96Purves Environmental TrustPurves Environmental Fund11/08/04Queensland Conservation CouncilConservation Trust of Queensland12/03/93Queensland Frog Society IncorporatedQueensland Frog Society Public Trust Fund17/12/99Queensland Landcare Foundation LimitedQueensland Landcare Public Fund15/06/06Queensland Trust for NatureQueensland Trust for Nature Fund31/10/05Quest 2025 Support Group IncorporatedThe Quest 2025 Ecological Sustainability Fund25/02/07Rainforest Information Centre IncRainforest Information Centre Public Fund29/06/94Rainforest RescueRainforest Rescue Fund28/03/00Reef Catchments Mackay Whitsunday IncReef Catchments Public Fund 24/11/09Reef Check Foundation LimitedReef Check Foundation Fund04/10/05Regent Honeyeater Project IncRegent Honeyeater Habitiat Restoration and Greenhouse Reduction Fund17/10/07Reserve Protection Group IncorporatedReserve Protection Public Fund24/07/02Responsible Forest Management Australia LtdResponsible Forest Management Australia Public Fund 24/11/09Revolve LimitedRevolve Public Fund19/08/98The River Basin Management Society LimitedICM Foundation Public Fund05/12/08River Conservation Society IncRiver Conservation Society Public Gift Fund12/11/96River, Lakes and Coorong Action Group IncRLC Gift Fund 16/12/09River Murray Urban Users Local Action Planning Committee IncMurrayCare Foundation Tax Deductible Donations Fund05/07/07RiverSmart Australia LtdRiverSmart Blue Bucket Fund
16/12/09Rockingham Regional Environment Centre IncRockingham Regional Environment Centre Tax Deductible Fund19/05/98Roo Gully Wildlife Sanctuary IncorporatedRoo Gully Wildlife Sanctuary Incorporated Public Fund19/08/04Rotary Native Bird Nest Box Project IncRotary Native Bird Nest Box Project Fund19/05/98Rottnest Conservation Foundation IncRottnest Conservation Foundation Gift Fund05/07/07Royal Australian Ornithologists UnionThe Australian Bird Fund09/02/01Save Foundation of Australia IncSave Foundation of Australia Donation Fund2/12/93Save Our Waterways - Now Inc
Save Our Waterways Now Environment Fund16/12/09Save the Cheetah Trust FundThe Cheetah Preservation Trust Fund12/11/96School Communities Recycling All Paper LimitedSCRAP Ltd Public Gift Fund23/03/99Scientific Expedition Group IncScientific Expedition Foundation10/04/95Sea Turtle Foundation LimitedSea Turtle Foundation Fund05/12/08SEQ Catchments LtdSEQC Public Fund28/08/08Silvery Gibbon Project IncorporatedSilvery Gibbon Project Conservation Fund14/06/02Skyrail Rainforest Foundation LimitedSkyrail Rainforest Research Fund26/08/05Society for Responsible DesignThe Society for Responsible Design Sustain Fund19/05/98South Coast Natural Resource Management IncSouth Coast NRM Region Tax Deductible Donation Fund19/06/08South Eastern Centre for Sustainablilty IncSouth Eastern Centre for Sustainablility Public Fund12/03/09South Gippsland Conservation SocietyLand for Wildlife Fund19/05/98South Gippsland Landcare Network IncSouth Gippsland Landcare Fund16/12/09South West Environment Centre IncSouth West Environment Centre Gift Fund12/09/95Southern Ash Wildlife Shelter IncSAWS Public Fund16/12/09Southern Gulf Catchments LtdSouthern Gulf Catchments Environment Fund28/08/08Southern Oceans Seabird Study Association Inc (SOSSA)SOSSA "Donations Fund"25/06/97Statewide Wildlife Rescue Emergency Service IncStatewide Wildlife Rescue And Rehabilitation Public Gift Fund13/02/07STEP IncThe Step Environment Protection Fund25/06/97Stop the Toad Foundation IncorporatedStop the Toad Fund09/11/06Sunshine Coast Environment Council IncSunshine Coast Environment Council Gift Fund2/12/93Surfrider Foundation LimitedThe Surfrider Foundation Fund10/10/00Sustainable Gardening Australia FoundationSustainable Gardening Australia Foundation Public Fund04/10/05Sustainable Living Foundation IncSustainable Living Foundation Fund30/07/01Sustainable Population Australia IncorporatedSustainable Population Fund10/04/95Sutherland Shire Environment Centre IncSutherland Shire Environment Centre Public Gift Fund2/12/93Sydney Aquarium Conservation Fund IncSydney Aquarium Conservation Fund14/10/08Sydney Metropolitan Wildlife Services IncSydney Wildlife Public Gift Fund05/07/07Taiwan International Society of Wilderness in Australia IncorporatedAustralian Taiwan Society of Wilderness Public Fund10/08/06Tamar Region Natural Resource Management Strategy Reference Group IncTamar Region Natural Resource Fund11/08/04Tag for LifeTag for Life Gift Fund24/11/09Tamborine Mountain Rainforest TrustTamborine Mountain Rainforest Public Fund07/07/95Tarkine National Coalition IncorporatedTarkine Fund27/02/06Taroona Environment Network IncorporatedTaroona Environment Network Fund01/12/03Tasmanian Bushland Garden IncorporatedTasmanian Bushland Garden Public Fund09/03/00Tasmanian Environment Centre IncTasmanian Environment Centre Public Fund12/03/93Tasmanian Landcare Association IncorporatedTasmanian Landcare Fund22/12/03Tasmanian Land Conservancy IncorporatedTasmanian Land Conservancy Fund24/07/02Tasmanian National Parks Association IncorporatedTasmanian National Parks Association Public Fund

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#8) On April 23, 2010 at 9:34 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

The Athena Foundation LimitedThe Athena Foundation Gift Trust Fund14/09/00The Australian Arid Lands Botanic Garden TrustAustralian Arid Lands Botanic Garden Public Fund09/10/02The Australian Dingo FoundationThe Australian Dingo Foundation Public Fund17/10/07The Blackwood River Foundation IncThe Blackwood River Foundation Public Fund05/07/07The Bunbury Timber Jetty Environment and Conservation Society IncBunbury Timber Jetty Environment and Conservation - Public Fund31/05/04The Cape Otway Centre For Conservation Ecology TrustCape Otway Centre for Conservation Ecology Public Fund12/10/07The Clarence Environment Centre IncorporatedThe Clarence Environment Centre Gift Fund24/07/02The Clean Air Society of Australia and New Zealand IncClean Air Society Public Fund14/10/08The Climate Group TrustThe Climate Group Public Fund13/02/09The Climate Positive FoundationClimate Positive Foundation Gift Fund19/09/07The Coastwatchers Association IncorporatedCoastwatchers Environment Fund20/01/03The Colong Foundation for Wilderness LtdThe Colong Wilderness Fund25/06/93The Crossing Land Education TrustThe Crossing Land Education Trust Public Fund06/08/06The E'co Kids TrustE'co Kids Public Fund23/12/04The Eden Whale Discovery Centre Research TrustEden Whale Discovery Centre Gift Fund28/03/00The Environment Centre NT IncThe Environment Centre NT Public Fund25/06/93The Friends of the Marine Discovery Centre IncFOMDC Queenscliffe Public Fund17/10/07The Field Naturalists Club of Victoria IncorporatedThe FNCV Environment Fund14/06/02The Friends of Oolong Association IncorporatedFund of Friends of Oolong09/05/03The Jewish National Fund Environmental Association of Australia IncThe Jewish National Fund Environment Gift Fund22/08/97The Lead Group IncLead Education and Abatement Fund23/08/99The Manly Open Space TrustManly Open Space Public Fund13/02/09The Men of the Trees (NSW) IncThe Men of the Trees (NSW) Inc Public Gift Fund19/05/98The Men of the Trees (WA) IncThe Men of the Trees Public Environmental Gift Fund11/06/93The Moore Catchment Council (Inc.)Moore Catchment Environmental Fund19/06/08The Nature Conservancy Australia TrustThe Nature Conservancy Australia Public Fund19/08/04The Nature TrustNature Trust Public Fund24/06/03The Noosa Community Environment TrustNoosa Environment Public Fund01/02/05The North West Research Association IncNorth West Research Association Fund30/06/05The Peter Cullen Water and Environment TrustPeter Cullen Water and Environment Fund16/12/09The Phil Little Sustainable Design FoundationPhil Little Sustainable Design Foundation Public Fund05/03/09The Rotamah Island Bird Observatory IncorporatedRotamah Island Bird Observatory Environmental Fund10/08/06The South Australian Ornithological Association IncBirds SA Conservation Fund14/10/08The Tree Project IncThe TreeProject Public Fund25/06/97The Valley Centre for Environmental Research and Education IncThe Valley Public Fund09/03/00The Wetlands and Grasslands FoundationWetlands and Grasslands Fund27/09/01The Wilderness Society IncThe Wilderness Fund11/06/93The Wombat FoundationThe Wombat Foundation Public Fund30/06/05The Xeriscape Gardens Council IncXeriscape Gardens Environmental Education Fund14/06/02Tilligerry Habitat Association IncTHA Environmental Gift Fund13/06/96Tolga Bat Rescue and Research IncTolga Bat Hospital Fund13/02/07Total Environment Centre IncTotal Environment Centre Public Gift Fund11/06/93T.R.E.A.T. (Trees for the Evelyn and Atherton Tablelands) IncorporatedTREAT Environmental Benefit Fund09/03/00Treenet IncorporatedTreenet Fund11/08/04Trees for Life IncTrees for Life Growing Fund2/12/93Trees Please! IncTrees Please Donations Fund23/08/99Trinity Inlet Catchment Management Association IncTrinity Inlet Catchment Management Association Public Fund11/09/02Tweed Valley Wildlife Carers IncorporatedTweed Valley Wildlife Carers Public Fund10/08/06Understorey Network IncorporatedThe Understorey Network Public Fund15/06/06Underwater Conservation Society IncUnderwater Conservation Education and Research Fund13/06/96Upper Hunter Waterkeepers Alliance IncorporatedUpper Hunter Water Fund25/02/07Urban Ecology Australia IncEcoCity Foundation Fund13/06/96Victorian Association for Environmental Education IncorporatedPublic Grants Fund19/08/04Victorian Cliffcare TrustThe Cliffcare Fund09/03/00Victorian Indigenous Nurseries Co-operative LtdVINC Environment Fund13/02/07Victorian Ornithological Research Group Inc (VORG)VORG Environment Fund05/12/08Warddeken Land Management LtdWarddeken Land Management Public Fund12/03/09Waterfall Springs Conservation Association IncorporatedWaterfall Springs Foundation Endangered Species Fund04/10/05Waterfind Environment Fund IncHealthy Rivers Fund17/10/07Waterkeepers Australia LimitedWaterkeepers Public Fund01/03/04Watermark IncorporatedWatermark Incorporated Public Fund28/03/00Water Resources Management TrustWater Training Education and Research Fund14/10/08Wentworth Group of Concerned Scientists FoundationWentworth Group of Concerned Scientists Fund24/11/09Westernport and Peninsula Protection Council IncWesternport and Peninsula Protection Council Trust21/02/94Western Australian Naturalists' Club IncorporatedWA Naturalists' Fund25/02/07Western Port Seagrass PartnershipWestern Port Seagrass Public Fund27/09/01WetlandCare Australia Pty LtdWetlandCare Australia Fund20/06/07Wetlands and Wildlife LimitedThe Wetlands and Wildlife Public Fund25/06/93Wetlands Conservation Society IncorporatedWetlands Trust Fund23/03/99Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society (Australasia) Incorporated Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society Research Fund27/02/06Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society IncWhale and Dolphin Conservation Society Inc Public Fund27/02/06Wide Bay Burnett Conservation Council Incorporated Wide Bay BurnettConservation Council Incorporated Public Fund27/02/06Wildcare Australia Inc
Wildcare Australia Gift Fund12/09/95Wildcare IncorporatedWildcare Gift Fund31/10/05Wildcare Queanbeyan IncorporatedWildcare Queanbeyan Public Fund24/07/02Wildflower Society of Western Australia IncWildflower Society Bushland Conservation Fund12/09/95Wildlife Advocate IncorporatedWildlife Advocate Public Fund20/10/06 Wildlife Assistance & Information Foundation IncorporatedWildlife Assistance & Information Foundation Incorporated23/12/04Wildlife Conservancy of Tropical Queensland LtdWildlife Conservancy of Tropical Queensland Public Fund25/06/97Wildlife Education and Rescue Service of Central Qld IncWEARS Donation Fund13/06/96Wildlife in Secure Environment TrustWildlife in Secure Environment Trust Fund12/03/93Wildlife Land Fund LimitedWildlife Nature Reserve Fund22/04/02Wildlife Preservation Society of Australia LtdWPSA Public Fund24/11/09Wildlife Preservation Society of QueenslandWildlife Preservation Society of Queensland Gift Fund11/06/93Wildlife Protection Association of Australia IncWildlife Protection Association of Australia Fund09/03/00Wildlife Rescue and Information Network IncorporatedWRIN Public Fund30/07/01Wildlife Rescue and Protection IncWRAP Public Fund28/08/08Wildlife Victoria IncWildlife Rescue and Rehabilitation Fund09/02/01Wildlife Volunteers Association IncorporatedWildlife Volunteers Association Fund31/05/04Wildlife Warriors Worldwide LimitedWildlife Warriors Public Fund20/01/03Wild Mob TrustWild Mob Public Fund05/12/08Wild Mountains TrustWild Mountains Fund19/08/98Winifred Curtis Scamander Reserve Trust DeedWinifred Curtis Scamander Reserve Public Gift Fund28/03/00Wirraminna Environmental Education TrustWirraminna Environmental Education Trust Fund30/06/05Woady Yaloak Catchment Group IncorporatedWoady Yaloak Catchment Improvement Fund04/10/05Wombat Protection Society of Australia LtdWombat Protection Society of Australia Public Fund05/07/07Wooragee Landcare Group IncorporatedWooragee Landcare Fund10/08/06WSPA Australia LimitedWSPA Public Fund02/08/01Yarra Riverkeeper Association IncYarra Riverkeeper Association Public Fund17/10/07Yea Wetlands TrustYea Wetlands Trust Fund23/12/04Yellow Footed Rock Wallaby Preservation Association IncBunker Block Project Public Fund08/06/00Zero Waste Australia IncZero Waste Australia Public Fund19/09/07Zoo Peru IncZoo Peru Conservation Fund10/08/06

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#9) On April 23, 2010 at 9:39 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

Anyway I am done mocking your post, suggesting that nothing has been done but we are ok anyway. The crime is that much better could have been done without the moronic idiocy campaigns of the right wing of American Politics.

Thank you for noticing.

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#10) On April 23, 2010 at 11:35 PM, whereaminow (20.98) wrote:

Looks to me like you inadvertently proved a different one of Cato's position (which is most definitely not "right-wing".)

I see from your list hundreds of voluntary organizations at grass roots levels helping to solve problems.  Maybe you can research further and see which ones needed to be set up by government and which arose through the demands of the marketplace.

At first glance, it appears that nearly all of them are born from voluntary action.  Once again, the market triumphs.  If true, there is absolutely no need for coercive measures to subsidize green initiatives if all of these organizations are already accomplishing that mission. 

Good job.  After the Club of Rome invented Global Warming to scare the people into coercion, the market responded naturally and voluntarily to address the threat (whether it is real or not.)

I'm sure Cato would be pleased.  

But you still haven't addressed the core issue of Cato's original post.  The mere fact that these organizations exist doesn't prove anything.  Have you ever read the book Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds?

You have failed to deliver a proof.  Good luck.

David in Qatar

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#11) On April 23, 2010 at 11:57 PM, irvingfisher (36.68) wrote:

You guys might not be old enough to remember, but the Los Angeles sky was often brown in the the early 70s. There were many "smog days" during which people were warned to stay inside due to high levels of particulate pollution.

Politicians took action (!), especially in California, by cleaning up the gasoline, requiring more emissions controls and requiring increased fuel efficiency in cars. Particulate pollution reduced to safer levels. OPEC politicians helped out by creating their cartel and driving up oil prices. Oil production in the domestic US also fell dramatically, squeezing supplies, and thus increasing prices.

The problem is that particulate pollution has a cooling effect. GHG emissions' warming effects were being kept in check by the particulate pollution. Reduce the particulate pollution, while increasing GHG emissions, and you get a warm up.

Anyway, I guess there's not much point in pointing this out.

 

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#12) On April 24, 2010 at 12:20 AM, whereaminow (20.98) wrote:

irvingfisher,

Unfortunately it's not that simple. According to the Washington Times' Eric Peters, 95-98% of vehicle emissions had already been eliminated by the time of the Clean Air Act in 1990 thanks to three-way catalytic converters, fuel injection, and computer-controlled engine management systems.

And if you research the history of catalytic convertors and government, you'll find out that the reason American cars were less environmentally friendly than say their Japanese counterparts was directly due to government mandates that protected older, higher emission, technologies for the benefit of outdated American car manufacturers.

Government solving problems they created once again.

David in Qatar

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#13) On April 24, 2010 at 12:22 AM, irvingfisher (36.68) wrote:

One of the problems with the current economic system is that it does not factor all costs into the prices of goods and services. For example, suppose that some product led people to lose too much sleep (because they were staying up too late writing posts on the internet that no one will ever read, for example). The cost to the economy of the lost sleep, in terms of decreased productivity and adverse health effects is pretty much guaranteed to *not* be accounted for the in the price of the product.

Another example is the big banks' low cost of borrowing, leading to excess leverage which later blew up in everydody's faces. The costs of such a blow-up (even potential) was not reflected in the costs of the borrowing. Had it been, we might have avoided the whole thing. In geneneral, the market prices often do not correctly reflect societal and economic costs.

That's the problem with pollution. If the costs to health and the potential costs of dealing with global warming (which would be huge!) were factored into the price of oil and other GHG producing activities (like cows farting), then we could say that the market "can take care of it". But that's not the case, so we can't leave it to the markets. That's why there are regulations. I would instead like to see taxes used to price products to better reflect the true costs of those products. Cigarette taxes should reflect the costs of cigarette use, whatever they are. Bicycle taxes should reflect the costs of bicycle use. Maybe the prices of somethings (like local fruit) would have to be lowered through subsidies. But at least then market forces could potentially be effective in dealing with issues like poor eating habits and pollution. If you don't do that, then you have to regulate.

Having a bunch of green groups begging for money and begging for regulations doesn't constitute a solution, market or otherwise, to the problem.

 

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#14) On April 24, 2010 at 12:34 AM, irvingfisher (36.68) wrote:

David,

I don't get your comment. It doesn't refute what I said, but it's written as if it does.

Particulate pollution controls were enacted in the 70s, so yes by 1990, car pollution was way down. Overall, GHGs kept rising. Increasing GHGs with less particulate pollution (which kept GHG warming effects in check) results in global warming. Maybe the mistake was to lower particulate pollution. Had we more smog today, we'd have a cooler planet! (BTW, deforestation has cooling effect on the planet too, so maybe we should be burning the rain forest, thereby increasing the planet's colling through both reflectance and particulate pollution!)

I think you might be interested in Macur Olsen' book "the rise and decline of nations" on how large organizations (e.g. gvts) end up being controlled by special interests.

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#15) On April 24, 2010 at 12:36 AM, whereaminow (20.98) wrote:

irvingfisher,

Let's set aside for the moment the indisputable fact that the worst polluters of the last 150 years are governments themselves (for a long time the USSR was the worst polluter, but the USA and Chinese government are now top honchos) and that asking the biggest offenders to fix the problem is akin to asking the worst alcoholics to solve the problem of too much drinking.

If government regulators can actually determine these pollution costs, why can't private companies?  It seems quite far fetched to me that a government regulator, sitting in a cozy office in DC can make an economic calculation, completely free from political pressure, that is more precise than a private firm.  

Instead, why not allow private companies to compete to "certify" the cleanliness of producers, much in the same way that UL certifies product safety.  Sure seems to be a better idea than Energy Star.

David in Qatar

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#16) On April 24, 2010 at 1:03 AM, irvingfisher (36.68) wrote:

 

Conflict of interest. It's like ISO certification. Company pays to get certified. Is it going to pass? Gee I dunno. DUH!

Acrtually, as long as there's no corruption (easier said than done), I don't care who does it. But right now, it's not being done, so market pricing is flawed and market pricing, in the current manner, cannot be used to fix any social or general economic ills.

 

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#17) On April 24, 2010 at 1:13 AM, catoismymotor (21.72) wrote:

Devoish,

Something tells me I am expected to issue a fire and brimstone attack of your blog. That is not what I am going to do.

I thank you for putting forth such a great effort to give weight to your position. I can tell you did a lot of research. It must have taken a large portion of your day to bring this to fruition. He whipped it good, as it were.

I believe what started 40 years ago as an ernest cause has turned into a global con job. I think there are some good scientist today that get lost in the mob of grifting Chicken Littles with their voices raised and hands out. As with anything backed by tax dollars, wars or scientific research, I will remain sceptical of any results that are reported.

Fourty years ago it appears there were many scientists jumping to bad conclusions based on faulty evidence. Did they know they were wrong? Did they care? It was the first Earth Day and the ones with the scariet stories of doom were bound to get the most press. I think vanity and greed ruled over good science, thus we have the article I posted today showing the ones that never panned out. 

I believe we are stewards of the Earth. We need to take care of her or face living on a Buy n Large astro-cruise ship while a fleet of robots clean up our mess. That's a Wall-E reference for those without little kids. I recycle, don't live in a huge house, drive a fuel efficient four banger. As a matter of fact my next car might be a hybrid. Once I have driven the wheels off my current one, an 11 year old model no less, they might be down to a good enough price I can pay cash for one that is a couple of years old. We'll have to see how the technology progresses. Heck, at that point there might be an option to retrofit my current car for less than buying new. That would be cool.

I have to chuckle when you call me *right wing*. I believe in a woman's right to choose, that gay marriage is cool, marijuana should be legalized, that the designated hitter rule is dumb and Newt Gingrich is a tool. Yeah, wrap me in the RNC colors! I'm a libertarian for Pete's sake. Please make a note of it.

My best to you and yours,

Cato

 

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#18) On April 24, 2010 at 8:17 AM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

BS Alert.

I believe we are stewards of the Earth. We need to take care of her or face living on a Buy n Large astro-cruise ship while a fleet of robots clean up our mess.

You've written a bazillion or so posts. Find me the one where you supported an environmentalist position over a corporations need to pollute. Not a vacuous one like this where you claim to be a steward of the earth (is that the same as someone who wants to stop changing the environment against future generations or is that someone who wants to use the environment for personal gain leaving nothing behind?) while mocking those who are.

Show me the post dedicated to the support of gay rights.

Count for me your statements mocking Newt Gingrich and the right wing of American politics as compared to your statements mocking Al Gore and the left.

I've said it before and I'll enjoy saying it again. Republicans = Conservatives = Libertarians. Just ruin the brand and change the name. "cut taxes, deregulate" "cut taxes, deregulate" cut taxes, deregulate". You have to support something different, to be something different, all pretentions aside.

Fourty years ago it appears there were many scientists jumping to bad conclusions based on faulty evidence. Did they know they were wrong? Did they care? It was the first Earth Day and the ones with the scariet stories of doom were bound to get the most press.

They were not wrong. As you ignore, the point of my post is that lots of people have banded together and done something despite your pretentions otherwise.

As hopelesslylost (can you laugh when I write that?) cannot see from the first hundred organisations I posted (all Gov't), the first greenies organised, voiced their concerns and intelligent Americans formed Gov't organisations to create laws for private individuals and corporations to live by and standards to meet. Hopelesslylost likes to tell us that somewhere that was actually happening before there were regualtions, despite a dead lake Erie (which is huge and pretty hard to kill by the way) harbors you would not let a dog swim in because fish could not, and a Denver whose smog cloud you could see ten hours before you got there.

Fourty years ago it appears there were many scientists jumping to bad conclusions based on faulty evidence. Did they know they were wrong? Did they care? It was the first Earth Day and the ones with the scariet stories of doom were bound to get the most press.

Seems to me that this is more a failure of "the press" than scientists. You spend more time writing a small newspaper than studying the environment or even gardening, correct? Thirty years ago scientists acknowledged the possibility they could be wrong as they do today. It is enduringly the fossil fuel funded news sources that barely acknowledge that real scientists might know more than their editors. Like the Cato institute. Or the Heritage Foundation.

Hopelesslylost suggests:

Looks to me like you inadvertently proved a different one of Cato's position (which is most definitely not "right-wing".)

I see from your list hundreds of voluntary organizations at grass roots levels helping to solve problems.  Maybe you can research further and see which ones needed to be set up by government and which arose through the demands of the marketplace.

At first glance, it appears that nearly all of them are born from voluntary action.  Once again, the market triumphs.  If true, there is absolutely no need for coercive measures to subsidize green initiatives if all of these organizations are already accomplishing that mission.

Hoplesslylost seems to need to miss entirely that "the market" failed. It seems corporate entitys that bore the costs of their pollution voluntarily could not compete for the dollar of cash strapped Americans with those that did not and sold at lower prices because they did not.

In fact it is typically those who stand against environmental laws that complain about the added costs as an argument against stopping pollution laws. "recycling laws will devastate the beverage industry" we are told. Talk about your misguided doom and gloom publicity.

As Hopelesslylost says environmentalism rose out of the voluntary actions of real Americans and real citizens around the world who recognized real problems for what they are. Polluters rarely stopped, if ever. And so voluntarily, Americans recognised the need to be a Nation of Laws, not a Nation of Pointing Fingers. And we formed an EPA to pass laws for All of Us to live by. And in response polluters created media campaigns to tell us environmentalists were against progress when in truth Americans want to make progress to cleaner energy sources, and cleaner water and cleaner air to breath.

And so there was created a Federal EPA, and a State DEC and it was good. Laws were passed requiring carmakers to increase MPG's reduce nitrous oxides, CO, and HC. Long before 1990 as someone (irvingfisher) who can see the real world noticed. And it was good. Carmakers were not told how to meet those standards, they were encouraged to innovate and meet them as best as they could and gain competitive advantage for their ability if they could. And it was done and it was good. The companys that were quicker, more creative, and more able, did better. Nox was reduced, CO was reduced, HC's were reduced, MPG's were increased and less fossil fuels were consumed and more were saved lowering the demand and the costs of fuel for all of us.

And it is better.

Cato told us:

For the next 24 hours, the media will assault us with tales of imminent disaster that always accompany the annual Earth Day Doom & Gloom Extravaganza.

On this website, has the media assaulted us with "imminent disaster" or are their more posts mocking environmentalists.

On this website, has the media assaulted us with "imminent disaster" or are there more posts trying to pretend environmental activists are the problem?

Thanks for playing.

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#19) On April 24, 2010 at 8:20 AM, catoismymotor (21.72) wrote:

BTW: + 1 Rec

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#20) On April 24, 2010 at 8:31 AM, catoismymotor (21.72) wrote:

Devoish,

 

You've written a bazillion or so posts. Find me the one where you supported an environmentalist position over a corporations need to pollute.

No. 

Show me the post dedicated to the support of gay rights.

No.

Count for me your statements mocking Newt Gingrich and the right wing of American politics as compared to your statements mocking Al Gore and the left.

No.

The burden of proof is on you. You accuse me of being something without evidence. Present your proof. Present it! To find my positions you need to search my blogs and others. Now go waste your Saturday trying to make your point.

 

Cato

 

 

 

 

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#21) On April 24, 2010 at 9:37 AM, TSIF (99.96) wrote:

As with almost everything, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Cato's blog does show that some people can take things to the extreme. Many of the scientiest quoted were clearly shooting their cannons to make some noise, with no data or facts. I agree the press will take the extremes for their own editorials and newsprint selling purposes.

Some people take it to the other extreme. The world hasn't ended, thus we clearly don't have a problem. 

I think the truth was closer to the humans, stewards of the earth, damaging it beyond control. Whether that would have been 20, 50, or 100 years if we had taken no action, I have no idea, but extrapolating the condition we were in out into the future, it didn't look bright to me.  A point a can't prove, but I've been to many cities over the year, throughout the world, and my own pallete senses vast improvements.  I doubt my tolerance has build up to the point that I don't notice as much.

Fortunately a huge percent of the population has taken some type of action, even if later in the cycle. 

I agree that this is the type of debate where there is no winners, because fortunately, "we" didn't do NOTHING since the first Eath Day.  We can't prove we would have collapsed if we hadn't done anything.  We can't prove that we would not have collapesed if we hadn't done anything.  What I'm confident of, but I can't prove, is that the world is a little better off due to identifying the problem and taking the actions we have taken so far. 

Whether we have people on both ends of the debate, exhausting themselves with no ability to sway the other side, but at least keepign the issue in the forefront and as long as we have the majority of people at least aware that their contributions, small to large, can help, then I have some hope for the future and subsequent generations.

TSIF  The SKY isn't falling today, it where I've lived and travelled, it's a lot cleaner than it use to be.  My gratitude to all who help(ed).

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#22) On April 24, 2010 at 10:42 AM, whereaminow (20.98) wrote:

As fun as it is to see devoish's hatred for me ooze from his keyboard, I don't think anyone will be able to answer my economic calculation question in comment #15, so I'm going to move on. Citing conflict of interest merely begs the question of regulatory conflict of interest and is not a response.  However, if you do have an answer, let me know.

Thanks,

David in Qatar

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#23) On April 24, 2010 at 10:44 AM, PDTBiotech (91.77) wrote:

I’ll have to trump cato as the villain on this one.  As a former scientist of the crusty old-school variety which demands something called “evidence” to believe a claim I despise the way conservation and environmentalist groups frame this issue publicly.  I’m not going to read through all that stuff, but fortunately I didn’t get past the first sentence without wincing, so I’ll make my point on that.

350.org refers to the level in parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that is deemed to be a safe upper limit in order to avoid a climate tipping point.”

For someone to claim today that they know how much CO2 in the atmosphere will avoid a climate tipping point is utterly, completely, stone-cold absurd, because it simply can’t be tested.  These sorts of people seem completely oblivious to the nature of nature - we cannot fix our environment in a conformation that is conducive to our survival or comfort.  Natural selection never would’ve been necessary if the environment wasn’t consistently changing.  Ice ages come and go, and will not stop doing so just because humans evolved the capacity for thought.

We don’t know jack, nor can we know jack, about how our interactions with the environment will shake out in the long run relative to what we know in sciences that we know well enough to predict outcomes accurately.  It’s an unbelievably soft area of science, I’d say on the opposite end of the spectrum of biology in terms of testability.  

For example, if I knock a gene out in a mouse and it causes disease X it’s a good chance that mutation of the same gene will cause the same disease in humans.  Though this isn’t always the case, after developing such a hypothesis based on that experiment I can go further and sequence the gene in humans with the disease, which will confirm or disaffirm my theory.  In science, that’s as clean as it gets.  There’s no analog in climate biology.

I would call the sum total of everything we know related to our interaction with the environment pseudoscience at this point - I’m not saying that to discredit people working in this field, it’s a combination of the fact that it’s a mindblowingly complex problem and we’re hamstrung by the fact that we can’t really run prospective experiments, we can only look at past evidence and observe what’s happening today.  The article Cato posted pointed this out nicely.  There are some similarly incorrect statements made in any area of biology if you go back to publications that came out prior to the development of systems that allowed us to truly understand the problem being studied, many of them by people who ultimately won Nobel prizes.

Here’s a somewhat scary question, and if your answer is no I genuinely don’t think you’ve thought about it hard enough – given what we do and don’t know about our interaction with the environment is it possible, even if very minimally so, that some of the efforts described in your post are actually going to do what the people engineering them would consider more harm in the long run than good if they could see the consequences far enough into the future?

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#24) On April 24, 2010 at 12:37 PM, ralphmachio (25.62) wrote:

In the 60's, a man could work a decent job and make enough for a family. Then the women starting asking for rights. 

Then the government used political Aiki-do: To use your opponent's inertia against him (or her). Now it takes two workers to support a smaller family, the divorce rate skyrockets, the breakdown of the family has created a set of problems that we can only guess the severity of.

Then the environmentalists came along, and instead of addressing the real problem of Oil companies influencing policy which was designed to create an unnecessarily large need to use their product, which created an economic monster that needs to be fed through constant war, too much labor, and in the worst scenario, when it can't be nourished from abroad, it just eats it's own people, they focused on some of the environmental impacts these companies had.  Somehow, the oil companies that were intended to get hurt from this are still running our lives! They even manufacture our solar panels! Who is going to pay for the 'solution' to this problem? The consumer! The same poor guy who complained in the first place! 

"We fixed your 'problem', created a bunch of useless jobs, and increased the scope of how we can tell you how to live! Win win, right!"

Nope. Just more political Aiki-do. Supporters of either left or right perpetuate this non-sense, but the largest proponents work FOR the government, and depend on them for a paycheck, and you to actually pay it. The maggot, being more noble, does not feel the need to justify it's existence. Nature provides. Supporters of an oversized government are an abhorance of nature, and will fill our heads with non-sense as they fill their guts with our blood.  

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#25) On April 24, 2010 at 3:54 PM, RonChapmanJr (67.70) wrote:

"Stewards of the earth"?

Genesis 1:28

 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

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#26) On April 24, 2010 at 9:26 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

Ron,

Then we agree Genesis does not say extinguish it. 

PDTBiotech,

Your faith in ignorance is your own to keep. In answer to your question - of course it is. But lets face the problems we have, not fear the ones you imagine.

Ralphmachio,

Turn off Limbaugh and Fox for a while and think about what you see for yourself.

Hopelesslylost, 

Do I "hate" you - no. Do i believe you believe what you type - also no. But com'on calling someone you disagree with who named himself "whereaminow," "hopelesslylost" is funny. I'll stop if it really hurts your feelings that much, just say so.

TSIF,

Almost 100% agreement. I think in 1970 the news services exagerrated "alarmisim" (is that a word?) to the point of misrepresentation what scientists told them far more often than the scientists were doing it.

Cato,

No,no,no! Three "no's" you sound like my girlfriend. I looked. I did not find any posts of yours wherein you genuinely took the positions you claimed to have in reply #17.

Thanks for playing.

And a much bigger thank you to all the folks who have done something to improve the environment, and our interaction with it. You are the wise ones.

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#27) On April 24, 2010 at 11:02 PM, catoismymotor (21.72) wrote:

No,no,no! Three "no's" you sound like my girlfriend.

It sounds like you need to kick her to the curb or release her from the basement.

I looked. I did not find any posts of yours wherein you genuinely took the positions you claimed to have in reply #17.

You actually wasted your Saturday looking through all my blogs and comments? If you really had you would have come up with a different result. And define genuinely. Did you find something, misinterpret the tone of something I wrote and discount it? It would not be the first time you have been guilty of doing such.

Being in your crosshairs has been amusing but I think whereaminow has a higher threshold for your BS than me.

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#28) On April 24, 2010 at 11:52 PM, PDTBiotech (91.77) wrote:

I agree with your statement "lets face the problems we have, not fear the ones you imagine".  That was a central part of my point - we need to sort through what we know and what we don't know and be careful to act on things we're sure of.  Right now people are pulling theories out of their a$$es based on practically nothing, calling it scientifically proven, and energizing people to do something to fix it.  That site claims to be trying to prevent some sort of climate tipping point, one we can't prove is there.  We also don't know if trying to manipulate the environment to avoid the probably imaginary tipping point might not create further, unimaginary problem, or whether there's anything we can realistically do to control the situation at all.  On the most basic levels I think a lot of things are obvious problems and there are obvious responses (garbage, recycling), these things need to be teased apart from the speculative problems.

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#29) On April 25, 2010 at 3:42 AM, ralphmachio (25.62) wrote:

That's rich. I never listened to that fool(Limb), I am neither on the left, nor right. I believe in live and let live, plain and simple. If in order to exist you must control others, or charge them just to go about their lives, or take advantage of them, I question your value, to say the least.

And FoX?!?! Are you kidding? I don't watch cable, at all. As unimaginable as it may seem, those are my original thoughts. I did not hear them from someone else first. Bill O'Reilly is a clown. All mainstream media insults my intelligence. 

I have a tough time understanding how anyone doesn't clearly see that neither party bring us closer to what we, the citizens want, yet they are both bringing us closer to what they both want- too much control. They need hobbies, and to pull the pole out of their asses.  

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#30) On April 25, 2010 at 3:05 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

Cato,

Of course not. You claimed the positions, not me. Limbaugh is a ruined brand, that's why you run to the Libertarian one.

Ralph,

I agree with you in #29. I'm still waiting for the example of a small Gov't country that achieves your goals to clean the environment.

PDTBiotech,

In the event a giant wave is rushing toward you, would you suggest waiting to be sure it was going to get you wet? And frankly, characterising NOT adding CO2 to the environment as "manipulating" it and stopping as "manipulating" is about as far over the crackpot wall as anything any of you have ever posted, and that is saying alot.

Climate change disbelievers wish to continue to manipulate the environment, by continuing to add CO2. I have no idea what you think you said.

We also don't know if trying to manipulate the environment to avoid the probably imaginary tipping point might not create further, unimaginary problem, or whether there's anything we can realistically do to control the situation at all.

Thanks for playing.

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#31) On April 25, 2010 at 3:51 PM, catoismymotor (21.72) wrote:

Devoish,

You lied about reading all my blogs and comments, claim to not find anything I have written to support my statements in comment #17. Now you try to tie me to the republicans and Rush Farking Limbaugh? You sound desperate and stupid in your attempt to bring me down to your level. 

There is nothing to be gained by continuing to add to the comments of this blog or by conversting with you, period. You are a sad little lying attention whore. I am cutting you off.

Cato

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#32) On April 25, 2010 at 6:51 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

David cut me off once too. All good. BTW, I have read most of your blogs, just not today. I've even "rec'd" a few, and agreed with fewer.

 

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#33) On April 27, 2010 at 10:39 PM, ChrisGraley (29.77) wrote:

devoish,

PDTBiotech seems to understand the science or lack of it.

Cato and Dave understand the politics.

You seem to catagorize anyone not willing to reach your level of stupidity as a right-winger. Could there possibly be anyone else other than a right winger that doesn't agree with you?

The only true answer to global warming if it were imminent, which it's not, is Eugenics.

The are much bigger populations than ours just entering the industrial age.  They have the same right to growth as we had when we were a developing nation. If we became totally Carbon neutral, it would not be enough to stop global warming. We have no right to dictate our values to those nations. So the only solution is to subsidize those populations or eliminate them. We can't afford the subsidies that we have to our own population.

I know your political party struggles with basic economics, but given your stance on social responsibility, you have to admit that denying an emerging market the same path to prosperity that we had when we were an emerging nation amounts to convienent ethics.

Even in your own skewed vision of Economics, you have to admit that we don't have the financial means to support the emerging markets, and even if we did, they would be wary to accept it.

So what do we do?

Should we drop random bombs?

Should we fire up the gas chambers?

I know that at least you stray enough from the party line to admit that the trading of Carbon credits is just a ponzi scheme.

But even with the Carbon tax, who ultimately pays the tax?

Do you believe that any corporation would pay it without passing it off to the end-user?

Is there anything stopping anyone from opening up hundreds of carbon emitting power plants in Mexico and selling that power to California because our own legislation cripples domestic power plants? Does the Carbon count change if it's being produced in another country?

devoish, I own energy efficient appliances and I have tankless water tanks. I bought all of the above because I save money by doing so.

I also own DriP's in utility companies that basically pay me more than my utility bills.

I didn't need to be poked or prodded to do these things, and I'm not enthused to poke or prod others.

If your climate solution is viable, you shouldn't need to force people to buy into it. A fact of life shouldn't require legislation. There should be people like me that do it simply because it makes sense.

If it doesn't make sense, then you'll be forced to resort to legislation. You can manage it the same way that you did with health care and force people to buy it that didn't want to buy it.

Are you really helping a submissive population with a different form of domination?

I understand the thought process and that you believe that your values are altruistic enough to be forced on the general population, but I look at differently.

I kinda value my own thought processes. They have served me well over the years. Somewhere along the line, your group decided if they can't sell it, they'll mandate it.

A tyrant with altruistic goals is still a tyrant.

Could you please just leave me alone?

 

 

 

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#34) On April 27, 2010 at 11:33 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

With all the carbon cutting steps you have taken the carbon tax and refund would leave you alone.

I understand you want to be left alone by Government. I want to be left alone by Dow, and 3M and Mobil. I want my water left alone by the manufacturers of Atrazine and BPA. I want my air left alone by Masseys coal.

Don't you?

And what if "just you" have not done enough? Should I be silent as the rest of America drops a carbon bomb on me? Or a cancer bomb on our kids? Should I let someone lie and sya there is no risk? Should I go all E.L.F. on the polluters?

Representative Government is not your enemy. Captured Representative Governmant is not your enemy. Those who captured it are and they will still be there after your Representative Government is gone. Ask any King or Dictator.

Your words are not wisdom. They are the words that have forgotten.

I will do my best to persuade the majority of people in America of the obvious. That political mouthpieces like the Cato Institute and the Heritage Foundation are the ones who are lying and corrupt, not climate scientists. I will do my best to band us together and fight for our survival just as our forefathers have. I will try for the best possible solutions, then the economic solutions but the ultimate goal has become a world that we all can live in. 

Affordability of the solutions is an imaginary obstacle and easily solved by decision making.

It is you who does not understand economics.

All it takes is willpower and economics does not have to matter.

You are going to die. You really do not "own" anything. I am sorry to break the news to you. 

You continue to argue over economics. I will continue to argue for healthcare and sensible, sustainable energy and environmental policy that does not sacrifice quality for price.

Our children will not notice a federal deficit in a world that cannot feed them.

I think the "population" will do much better using Democracy to stand up for themselves, rather than "submit" to self interest.

Go have a shower, and thank your Government.

You pretend that lake Erie was not dead before the EPA. You pretend that Huntington Harbor was clean. David pretends that "volunteer" organisations stopped pollution. Volunteer organisations used Government Regulation as the tool that did the good.

Thanks for reading.

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#35) On April 28, 2010 at 11:44 AM, ChrisGraley (29.77) wrote:

"All it takes is willpower and economics does not have to matter"

How much more debt did you pile on to your child today?

Inflation is the slavery of the middle class.

The ultimate result of your party's platform is combined misery.

 

The above qoute sounds like it came from Karl Marx

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#36) On April 28, 2010 at 11:50 AM, whereaminow (20.98) wrote:

ChrisGraley,

I was thinking the same thing.  Or Lenin instituting War Communism.

Devo is about to make claims like Fourier that the new Progressive man will change the world through willpower.  The lions will let you ride them.  The oceans will turn to lemonade.  Chickens will roast themselves and fly into your mouth.  (Fourier actually said those things.)

Btw, Fourier was crazy.  What about his disciples?

David in Qatar

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#37) On April 28, 2010 at 5:06 PM, ChrisGraley (29.77) wrote:

The scary thing is that he believes it.

All those people striking in Greece believe it too.

You can't borrow your way to prosperity!

Your children should be enjoying the fruits of your labor rather than be laden with the burden of your debt.

As debt increases the service of that debt increases and more of your child's future productivity will be devoted to debt service.

 

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#38) On April 28, 2010 at 7:44 PM, chk999 (99.97) wrote:

It is you who does not understand economics.

All it takes is willpower and economics does not have to matter.

Economics is like physics. It doesn't care whether you believe in it or not. No, it is not as precise as physics in the answers that it generates, but the effects are real and cannot by wished out of existance. The Marxists tried for decades, with a singular lack of success.

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#39) On April 28, 2010 at 11:01 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

Physics are rules we cannot change.

The rules of economics can be changed in an instance. Instead of distributing money through the banking system the US could choose to distribute money only through a retirement fund.

There is very little economic reality beyond supply and demand. After that it is rules decide upon by men.

In Norway it was decided that natural resources should provide for all its citizens. In the US it was decided that natural resources should provide for land owners, except Alaska which does both. In Qatar natural resources provides healthcare and infrastructure.

Economics is just choices. Unlike physics. Or biology.

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#40) On April 29, 2010 at 3:02 PM, ChrisGraley (29.77) wrote:

"Economics is just choices. Unlike physics. Or biology"

Economics is based on fundamental economic laws that don't change just like Physics or Biology.

The fact that you believe that you can change those laws shows how little you know about Economics.

You can test your own theories though.

Max out all your credit cards and let me know how borrowing your way to prosperity works for you.

 

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#41) On April 29, 2010 at 5:54 PM, devoish (98.25) wrote:

I'll play. Can I max my credit in a world with my rules? Or the ones in place right now?

Once again, beyond supply and demand, almost everything else is just invented, or to put it another way, responses to arbitrary policys or regulation.

I can max my credit cards in a world where a Gov't will help the creditor collect.

I can max my credit cards in a world where the Gov't will hinder the creditors collections.

I can max my credit cards in a world with no Gov't.

My creditor can try to collect in a world where I maxed my credit buying arms.

I can max my credit in a world where my creditor can bring his friends to try to collect.

I can max my credit in a world where my friends will stop the creditor from collecting.

I cannot max (or already have maxxed) my credit in a world with no credit.

I can max my credit in a world where the creditor can increase the rate on already lent money.

I can max my credit in a world where the creditor can only increase the rate he charges on new money that he lends me.

I have lived in the last two worlds, but did not max my credit.

I can live in a world where my creditor maxxes my credit based upon my skin color.

I can live in a world where my creditor maxxes my credit based upon his skin color.

I am old enough to have lived in both those worlds, too.

I can live in a world where my creditor maxxes my credit at a level I can pay him back.

I can live in a world where my creditor maxxes my credit at a level where I cannot.

I have lived in both of those worlds, too.

Random arbitrary rules will affect the results of your experiment. Not gravity.

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