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Oce NV - Confusion Reigns! Does Anybody Use This Company?



February 13, 2009 – Comments (9)

It seemed like a good idea at the time.  I chose a few little underpicked stocks just for fun; no money on them, no harm done.  Oceny is now outperforming beautifully, and there is no financial data to tell me why.  So I am turning to CAPS.  The company makes printers, copiers, scanners, etc as mentioned below (taken from their website).  I am hoping that somebody reading this uses or has used the products of this company and can give me some feedback on the products and by inference the company.  I can ignore a company that just sits and does nothing.  One that moves agressively up or down makes me curious.  One that moves up or down with no information as to why makes me nervous.  Any help out there? - And please leave a rec even if you don't know about this company.  I would like for this post to stay around long enough to be found by someone who actually does use the blasted products or can fill in the reasons for the good fortune of the company. 

And for those who are interested, this stock has outperformed the S&P by 23% since Jan 26.  Reason enough to wonder what is going on and whether it should be looked at further.  At the moment, the stock is $3.20 per share.  Please feel free to add it to your picks if you like, but understand that I have no idea why it is acting this way so I can not recommend it.  This is more like recommending which wall to aim for in "Pin the Tail on the Donkey" while still wearing the blindfold.  The whole idea of this blog is to ask help from someone without a blindfold.

"Oce N.V. develops and supplies digital printing systems, software, and services for the production, reproduction, distribution, and management of documents worldwide. The company’s printing systems portfolio includes printers, copiers, and scanners for small and wide formats. The small format systems comprise printers, copiers, and scanners for daily office practice, both stand-alone and for network applications; and printers for various print jobs used by reprographic departments of various companies and commercial print service businesses. The wide format systems consist of printers and scanners for technical drawings, geographical maps and drawings, indoor and outdoor advertising, counter displays, banners and posters, and billboards and wall frontage displays on various paper and plastic materials. The company also offers workflow and output management software for small format print solutions; various software for the preparation, control, and monitoring of complex print jobs from various sources in black and white, and color on various print media. In addition, it offers software to control various printers; print management and distribution software for wide format printers; rasterization and distribution software for display graphics; application software for color reproduction in display graphics and advanced banners; and software to control decentralized printers. Further, the company provides various services, including installation and maintenance of its products; consultancy; document management process services; and financial services, such as rental and leasing. Additionally, it offers various imaging supplies, including rolls of paper, coated and plain paper, sheets, inks and toners for various applications, such as wide format media, display graphics media, print media for office and graphic, and small format media. The company was founded in 1877 and is headquartered in Venlo, the Netherlands."

9 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On February 13, 2009 at 2:40 PM, GNUBEE (< 20) wrote:

My company uses them, large scale printers/plotters, yes. They are more expensive than the cheapies, but better quality.

Incidentally, this could be an engineering play as all " the infrastructure" has to be designed (and plans made) first?

I can't figure it out either, but skimmed some points off Oce already.

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#2) On February 13, 2009 at 4:28 PM, BGMalcolm (< 20) wrote:

I work for Océ North America as a Major Account Exec.  Océ bough out Imagistics (the former copier division of Pitney Bowes) a few years ago.  Since then, the very compatible product lines of each of the companies have merged and the management team of Imagistics has taken over the management team of Océ.  It has been a wonderful process to be a part of!

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#3) On February 13, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Mary953 (82.67) wrote:

Were you part of Pitney Bowes prior to the merger?  How much, if any has Imagistics changed (equipment line, personnel, policies, pricing, etc) since they became a part of the Oce team?  What part did they play in the Pitney Bowes corporate structure prior to the merger?  I hope you do not mind answering these questions.  I am becoming more curious as I get more pieces of this puzzle.  I keep searching for the deal breaker and haven't found it yet.

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#4) On February 13, 2009 at 7:13 PM, Jsfwcz (< 20) wrote:

I'm a fellow fool who blogs about the digital print industry at  Tough Love for Xerox.

It's only my idiosyncratic view, but it will give you a sense of my view of this wonderful, under observed industry.

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#5) On February 14, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Jsfwcz (< 20) wrote:

I spent 40 years on the ground in the printing industry running my own company, with a 7 year stint teaching graphic designers print production at Parsons School of Design in NY.

Oce is part of an as yet to be defined sector  which I think of as  Print Output Infrastructure . It is evolving from a mash up of office machines and commercial printing, With the addition of the internet, the sector is taking on a life of it's own.

The big players are HP, Ricoh, Xerox, Oce, Kodak, IBM.and Canon with lots of smaller players and suppliers to the big guys. The driver is outputting digital information to paper.On the ground the product is delivered on the desktop or through the web for consumers, for clients it is in a commerical "print for pay" organization or within an enterprise in an "in house print shop."

The infrastructure companies earn their revenue in post equipment sales recurring revenue. Toner, paper and services.

The success of companies like and are built on the infrastructure put in place by the big players. The disruption of newspapers, publishing and textbooks are all opportunities to expand the infrasture to fill those spaces.

it's a global infrastructure that , in my opinion, will expand as literacy, rules based enterprises and competitive markets expand in the developing world, especially in the BRIC countries and Eastern Europe.

Given the increasing market share of MFP (multi funtion printer) which scan as well as print and MPS (Managed Print Services)  that rationalize print output at the enterprise level,  in my opinion all the pieces are in place for significant sector growth.

I blog about that sector at my Tough Love for Xerox blog.


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#6) On February 14, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Mary953 (82.67) wrote:

Thank you - Finally a growth industry that I can understand!  Publishing/information science driven - This is one I can learn with the educational groundwork already in place.  Your blog was interesting and has been bookmarked.  May I return with more questions?  First among those being the general curiosity of how this might fit into self-publishing for authors that have not been picked up by major publishing houses (the so-called "vanity press" of yesteryear)

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#7) On February 17, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Jsfwcz (< 20) wrote:

The short story, anecdotal only, I haven't the hard work of pulling together the stats, is that self publishing is growing very quickly.

 This  the sector  that supplies the infrastructure that has enabled what I think is internet sytle growth. Consider that the founder of Red Hat?. The linux guy, started which seems to be a leader in the self publsihing space at the consumer level.

Meanwhile, ingram has just spun off Lightning Source, who just announced the completion of their 7 millionth company for commerical publishers.

Then consider that Amazon bought a digital print outfit and is trying to figure out how to make Booksurge a real revenue producer. 

 The trick is figuring out which player is going to get it and is organized for success. The problem is that they all have legacy cultures. And useless overhead to support non core activities.

Oce from the data transaction world. Their equipment and channels are for EZ pass statemetns are stuff like that. Lighting Source runs on Oce machines. I think.

HP's legacy culture is data processing, blablabla but they own the desktop.

Xerox's legacy culture is the enterprise.

Not sure about Kodak. I would watch RIcoh, very carefully. I belive they are an 88 billion company and have recently made alliances with Kodak in Europe and IBM here in the states. 

 The other player to watch comes from the commercial print space.They are called Screen, based in Japan, and they are first to market with a machine installed in NJ, that is doing on demand, potentially personalized newspapers.

Kodak meanwhile is going to introduce a product called Stream which will also work for personalized, versioned newspapers. 

 If I had the time or the skill, I would try to find the SG&A for each outfit.  My benchmark is Walmart. As I understand it their SG&A is about 16+%.  Xerox is about 25% and went up at the last conference call.  I don't know about the others. 

My bet would be on those whose SG&A is decreasing and whose educational and publishing activity is increasing.  Also, keep in mind it's all about the toner and after sales service revenue.



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#8) On February 18, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Jsfwcz (< 20) wrote:

Just an FYI..HP made a pretty big, IMHO, annoncement today lots of buzz in the industry. About a month ago they went live with MarketSplash, just came to everyone's notice today.

 Short story is that it's a pretty interesting play for the Small Medium Business Market. I did a post today that got lots of hits, 

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#9) On July 14, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Mary953 (82.67) wrote:

And today OCENY is on the hardest hit stock list


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