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KDakotaFund (26.23)

Peter Schiff: China's Stimulus Spells Trouble for U.S.

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November 11, 2008 – Comments (16)

This week, Asian markets were initially energized by China's announcement of a near $600 billion economic stimulus package for its own economy. Although I have never been a fan of government-fueled stimuli, the relative wisdom of the plan hinges on the source of funds the Chinese government decides to utilize. Their best choice would be the country's nearly $2 trillion in foreign reserves, the largest portion of which is held in U.S. Treasury and agency debt. This pile of dollars, which really amounts to no more than a subsidy for U.S. consumers, does nothing to benefit Chinese citizens.

If it does decide to employ this ocean of cash, China will become a net seller of U.S Treasuries just as the U.S. Government itself will be pushing up its issuance of new Treasury bonds into record territory. With two huge sellers and few major buyers (just about every major creditor nation having problems of their own), the Federal Reserve will become the only reliable customer. As a result, not only will the Fed monetize our own economic stimulus packages, but will be forced to provide the same service to the Chinese.

Most economists feel that China will maintain the status quo by borrowing or printing the funds for their own stimulus while continuing to hoard its trillions of existing U.S. dollars. Most also believe that the Chinese will substantially increase their dollar holdings in order to finance America's never-ending string of bailouts and its ballooning Federal deficit, which is soon to pass $1 trillion annually. These optimists are in for a rude awakening.

The Chinese cannot follow such a course without unleashing intolerable inflation at home. Selling down their vast reserves of U.S. debt and using the proceeds for domestic infrastructure projects (or anything else for that matter) is a vastly superior stimulus mechanism than "lending" to Americans so we keep "buying" their products. When Chinese authorities finally figure this out the United States will suffer the consequences.

As they have in the past my critics will cavalierly dismiss this view. However, as the following compilation of some of my 2006 and 2007 television appearances attests, my economic predictions have proved extremely prescient:

However, given recent global stock market and currency volatility, some are questioning the wisdom of my investment strategy. I am confident that the short-term effects suffered by foreign stocks and currencies as a result of financial de-leveraging and losses on bad U.S. debt will prove temporary. If so, my market forecasts will ultimately prove just as accurate as my economic predictions. Those who are currently patting themselves on the back for having had the apparent foresight to stay in U.S. dollars will be singing a different tune when the music stops playing.

16 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On November 11, 2008 at 4:57 PM, DemonDoug (98.84) wrote:

haha art laffer "monetary policy is spectacular... I think Peter is totally off base, I don't know where he's getting his stuff." Good one Art.

Art owes Peter a penny. :) 

Who the hell was that guy "Tom" on 12/31/06 that thought home prices would be going up 10% LOL.  What a maroon.

And they are laughing at Peter.  Dorks.

Next up: Ben Stein 8-18-07.  "Subprime problem is a problem but it's a tiny problem... it's a buying opportunity, especially for the financials, maybe that I've never seen before in my entire life."  Calls for MER as a buy.

Good calls you idiot!

Some guy named Charles Payne 8-18-08 "The worst is over." Then picks bear stearns. bwahaha

12-29-07 Charles Payne - makes basically a zillion bad calls, and calls to buy Washington Mutual, "big winner will be Nasdaq."

The video title should be "Peter Schiff Pwnage"

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#2) On November 11, 2008 at 5:53 PM, kdakota630 (33.34) wrote:

DemonDoug, Art Laffer decided that he didn't owe Peter that penny because the statute of limitations had run out after 9 months.

LOL!

I'd have respected him a lot more had he just been a man, admitted he was wrong and gave Peter Schiff the penny, ideally inside a frame.

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#3) On November 11, 2008 at 5:55 PM, RainierMan (40.03) wrote:

I do pay attention when Schiff speaks, but I have to say, he's missed some of his key predictions. China was supposed to unleash it's massive consumer purchasing power under Schiff's scenario, thus laughing off the impact of a recession in the U.S. The rest of the world too was supposed to prosper despite a U.S. crash.

The dollar was going become worthless, and inflation was going to go hyper. Gold was supposed to be the only place to be.

Now, we may get there eventually, but the timing here is pretty damned important, and Schiff has missed it by a mile.

I mean come on; if you had followed Schiff's recommendation you would be sitting of seriously reduced assets of gold and foreign stocks.

A lot of the mechanisms of the decline were right on, but the "how to make money off it" part, is, quite frankly, now debunked. Big time.

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#4) On November 11, 2008 at 6:37 PM, vtBrunson (60.26) wrote:

Michael...lets look at how his recommendation to buy the GLD ETF (and staying out of stocks) has fared...

...since the broadcast in Jan 2008
GLD -15.09%
S&P -37.88%
Nasdaq -39.42%
DJI -33.35%

Unless you are the luckiest person alive and have a portfolio that somehow manged to outproform the market by more than 50%, you would have been better off listening to his advice.  Debunked... I dont think so.

 

 

 

 

 

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#5) On November 11, 2008 at 6:53 PM, kdakota630 (33.34) wrote:

I would agree with vtBrunson.  By Schiff's own admission, following his strategy hasn't paid off yet, but remains of the belief that it will, and I think this particular blog suggests that it likely won't take be too far off.  Jim Rogers says essentially the same thing.

No one times everything perfectly.  Look at how all the other experts laughed as Schiff made predicition after prediction, which end up being true time and time again.

Your criticism reminds me a bit of when goldminingXpert made his thumbs down call on Visa.  At the time his ranking was 99.50 (currently at 99.99, 6th overall).  He had people (usually ranked >20) calling him an idiot.  He ended up being early, but correct.

Hell, I'm in commodities and I'd wished I'd stayed in cash starting about 4-6 months ago and just started buying now.  Bottom line is that I still believe commodities will rebound faster and stronger than other sectors, and considering how accurate Schiff and Rogers have been thus far while bucking the experts, I'll stick with them.

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#6) On November 11, 2008 at 7:01 PM, abitare (99.42) wrote:

Great video. Art Laffer went on to write a book "End of Prosperity". Bill Maher had him on and Laffer, admitted he did not pay Schiff.

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#7) On November 11, 2008 at 7:48 PM, lquadland10 (< 20) wrote:

Their best choice would be the country's nearly $2 trillion in foreign reserves, the largest portion of which is held in U.S. Treasury and agency debt. This pile of dollars, which really amounts to no more than a subsidy for U.S. consumers, does nothing to benefit Chinese citizens.   Now we know were the 2 trillion that everyone is looking for and the Central Bank and the IMF won't tell congress where it went. Now for the new new new deal. (scam) teaser rate for the resets and a balloon payment when they sell because they Assume that house prices will go back in 5 years or less. Ha Ha try 50 years because they still won't cut the ties with China and bring our manufacturing jobs home. Note. Charles said BS.

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#8) On November 11, 2008 at 8:28 PM, johnw106 (60.90) wrote:

China owns less than 5% of the USA debt. I have no idea where this fable got started that China owns trillions of dollars of US debt. It simply is not true. They own about 500 billion.

 They are a minor player in the grand scheme of things and will gladly buy more debt.

They have two choices. Continue on the current path by supporting the American consumer or face a rebellion of millions of starving peasants if they let their economy slow down and fail to keep the masses working in factories grinding out cheap goods.

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#9) On November 11, 2008 at 8:49 PM, RainierMan (40.03) wrote:

Brunson: with all due respect--are you kidding me? There are bond mutual funds that would have fared way better than what you just posted for returns, and that's where a lot of people went for safety. What about being in cash? A lot of people went to cash, and those who are still in cash are far better off than if they had been holding gold and foreign stocks. The dollar may go to hell, but timing is everything.

I noticed you did not put up a foreign stock fund index, which would have been ugly, and Schiff was really pushing foreign stocks in "Crash Proof". I forget what mix he was calling for in his book, but I believe it was more stocks than gold.

As I said, I do listen when Schiff speaks; he's a smart guy, but frankly, he missed this call in terms of where to put your money for safety. 

There is no way that you could say to this point, his strategy was anything but a gigantic loss. He missed the call on gold and he missed on foreign stocks. He missed on the dollar. He was supposed to be making people "crash proof", but they crashed hard. 

Regards. 

 

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#10) On November 11, 2008 at 8:53 PM, RVAspeculator (62.69) wrote:

How in the world did Ben Stein ever get into the stock picking business anyway.   The funny part about this video isnt how horribly wrong these people are, the funny part is they are still on TV doling out horrible advice.   They all sound like Peter Shiff now.

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#11) On November 11, 2008 at 9:27 PM, RainierMan (40.03) wrote:

Kdakota: first of all, I'm not talking about some CAPS players' call on Visa, and I never call people stupid. Schiff is a financial expert who make money off his financial advice, so it's fair to look at how it's been working.

You're talking about timing as it were a minor consideration, but it's everything. Hell, most things rebound eventually. Schiff's timing was off, or he was just wrong about some things. I'm convinced he was wrong about China.

Let's say his timing was just off, and he wasn't wrong about where people should put their money. People who followed his advice are currently are sitting on big loses. Those who stayed in his much maligned dollar are sitting on a pile cash waiting for the right time to buy whatever they decide to buy, whether it's commodities, stocks, gold, etc. The most obvious thing to do was to get out of stocks and go to cash late last year or early this year, but that was absolutely the worse thing you could have done if you listened to Schiff.

He called the crisis reasonably well, but he got the investment approach wrong, and that's pretty darned important don't you think?

Please don't tell me that he'll be right eventually. He was wrong to this point, where the market has crashed, and that's a really critical point. 

 

 

 

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#12) On November 11, 2008 at 11:36 PM, awallejr (80.10) wrote:

Wish I could rec MichaelinWa's replies. 

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#13) On November 12, 2008 at 1:45 AM, starbucks4ever (99.53) wrote:

Let's hope Schiff is right. It will be a real tragedy if the bond market refuses to crash.

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#14) On November 12, 2008 at 10:15 AM, kdakota630 (33.34) wrote:

MichaelinWA, I mentioned the other players just for comparitive purposes for my example.  Actually, before your reply I started to think that there was the possibility that you would misinterpret what my intentions were.

I don't want to dismiss what you wrote because you DO make some very valid points.

Schiff certainly wasn't 100% correct, but I'd still follow him ahead of the vast majority of "experts."

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#15) On November 12, 2008 at 11:05 AM, RainierMan (40.03) wrote:

Understoond kdakota; no problem.

Schiff is certainly worth listening to during the current crisis; I sure do. And I totally agree, he is way ahead of many of the experts out there.

Cheers. 

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#16) On November 13, 2008 at 2:18 PM, FlyingComic (< 20) wrote:

China effectively threatened to do this very thing in 2007.

 

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