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valuemoney (99.99)

TAXES 101 ...... Republican or Demacrat

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March 24, 2012 – Comments (37)

Here are my thoughts on taxes. I am going to give an example and my thought process. Pardon Spelling and grammar.

Ok you have 3 people and one corperation. The 1st makes 50K a year and goes about his or her business every day trying to make a live.

Next you have an indivisual who makes 1 million dollars a year and lives quite comforably.

3rd you have a corperation that makes 500 million a year or more.

I have a 4th but that will come later.

Now lets say a road need to be built or America has to go to war.

This will cost us a lot of money. Who deserve to pay for it...... each of the 3 equily? I say no. It can't work like that. Now you say what if tax rates were equil for all of us. The one the makes 50k ends up paying a lot less even though he or she is paying the exact same rate. Lets use 20% for example? For the most part I am going to agree with that.

Now I am going to add the 4th. This person is laid off.....has a disablity or something that makes him or her unable to work or generate an income. What do we do about this? Do we help him out? I would if possible. Now lets say I am the one making 50K.....can I aford to. Not really. If I was the one making 1 million or more. I could help out a little more and live a little less comfortably and feel I was making a difference and helping someone out. Now I am the coperation making 500 million a year. I know I have plenty of money. I should be helping out the less fortunite. Everyone should be helping if possible. Come on. Now will it kill the coperation to pay lets say 30% instead of 20% to help the needs of someone or the nation? Everyone with a heart should say that is the way it should be. Does the corperation throw in extra money? No. Does the millionare? NOPE. Does the person making 50k? Nope he can't afford to even if he wanted to. So this cant be valintary. It has to be put into law. Other wise NO ONE will help and that 4th will just suffer. That is why I vote Obama. Both sides have good ideas but when it comes down to it in my mind cutting taxes on the rich makes no sense. Hey the Dem. want to spend way to much and be to involve but I say we need a DEM. president, DEM. congress and a majority on REP in the senate and all work to together for the good of the nation. I would say they did that REP and DEM with Simpson Boles. Which should have been taken to a vote and passed. Both parties came together on this and did a terrific job. At least vote on it! All that work for nothing? That is a crying shame. Shame on both parties!

37 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On March 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I wanted to add one more thing to this. It involves Warren Buffett.

I hear a lot of Republicans say this comment. If he wants to write a check out to the government why don't he just go ahead and do it. Now look at my above post. Look at what I said about helping the less fortunate in regards to taxes. Now look at Warren Buffetts contributions to the Gates Foundation. He is doing his part by helping the less fortunate. He wants to do it in regards to the nation in the form of taxes but he know EVERYONE needs to contribute not by choice but by law or no one will.

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#2) On March 24, 2012 at 12:24 PM, HarryCarysGhost (99.70) wrote:

Republican or Demacrat

Ughhh! if those were my only two options I'd pick option C- death by multiple spork stabbings.

Ok I am effectivley the first person on your list and pay 37%

Second person on your list pays 15%- to maybe 22%

Third person pays 0%

If you evened that out at 20% the forth person would be taken care of.

Also someone like me would have more money to pump into the economy creating more tax base and some extra for non government mandated charitable donations.

Also would help if we ended pointless wars, stopped spending more then we bring in, and legalized and taxed Marijuana.

Hmmm.. I wish there was a candidate who shared my views.

Oh wait there is.

Ron Paul 2012

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#3) On March 24, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Valyooo (99.47) wrote:

has to be put into law. Other wise NO ONE will help and that 4th will just suffer.

 

That is such bullcrap.  There are so many charities, so many celebrities that donate, so many religious organizations that donate, etc.  And they get to do it at their discretion, unlike now where all of the money that goes to 'helping' goes to a bunch of drug addicts who just use their money to buy more drugs (this is an exagerration but still)

 Plus, you disproved your own point when you said "Do we help him out? I would if possible."

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#4) On March 24, 2012 at 2:05 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

Yeah... I do like Ron Paul. And agree with everything you just said. Unfortanately their are 3 other Republican Canidates ahead of him. I would say his views are more like an independents. I wish everyone ran as an independent and their were no REP. or DEM parties.

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#5) On March 24, 2012 at 2:09 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

Valyoo the main point I am getting at is we have a huge debt and we need to solve it. The money needs to come from somewhere. It isn't going to come from charity. Where is it going to come for I ask you? 

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#6) On March 24, 2012 at 2:13 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I just was stating the 4 classes of people.

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#7) On March 24, 2012 at 2:25 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I am beginning to like what you said Harry. And you made a reasonable statement even though Ron Paul is running as a Republican I would vote for him.

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#8) On March 24, 2012 at 2:34 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I just don't think Rommey would like to change his tax rate because he is paying way less as a % of his income for the reasons I stated above. No one will pay more than they have to in taxes unless they r required to. And frankly I think he is all about himself. If he would state this is wrong I am only paying in this much..... when everyone else for the most part is paying WAY more as a % of their income I would think different of him. He won't and I won't vote for him.

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#9) On March 24, 2012 at 2:36 PM, wolfman225 (68.74) wrote:

^What you were doing was attempting to provide justification for the forced confiscation of property from one class of people who, in your opinion, have more than they need to another class of people who, also in your opinion, deserve to have it.  Sorry to say, you failed.

The main problem with the economic policies of many of those on the left is that they're based almost entirely on subjective emotions.  What if someone else has a differing opinion?  Who gets to decide how much is enough and how much is too much?  Where do you/they get the authority to make those decisions?  On what basis are they made?  Where does the person required to contribute to the less fortunate go to appeal a decision he/she feels is unfair?  Every question leads  to more questions, equally unanswerable (except by further subjective "reasoning").

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#10) On March 24, 2012 at 2:44 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

Sorry wolfman225 should it be? "Survival of the Fittest" that is the way to do it. I think that is what most Republicans stand for.

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#11) On March 24, 2012 at 2:54 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I am not on the left or the right. Just from your statement it leads be to believe everyone should be in the middle not a DEM or REP. Why not pass Simpson Boles? REP and DEM came together with a solution. We are not even voting on it!

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#12) On March 24, 2012 at 3:00 PM, wolfman225 (68.74) wrote:

Sorry wolfman225 should it be? "Survival of the Fittest" that is the way to do it. I think that is what most Republicans stand for.

If you really believe that, I can't help you.  Maybe you need to lay off the MSNBC, and MoveOn.org feed?

No one is saying they don't want to help the less fortunate.  In fact, this country offers more to it's citizens (in terms of opportunity) than any other.  Opportunity, however, doesn't equal result.  Not everyone will succeed.  Not everyone who doesn't get a handout will fail. 

Conservatives (I'm not a Republican) have complete faith in the ability of the American people to provide for themselves and to prosper, if given the chance (and if the government gets out of their way).  Handouts never create prosperity, they can only create endless dependency, which in turn leads to unavoidable resentment of the very benefactors they depend on.

True compassion for the poor is not found in handouts,  True compassion lies in helping the less fortunate to provide for themselves a life that doesn't depend on the (forced) charity of others.

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#13) On March 24, 2012 at 3:03 PM, wolfman225 (68.74) wrote:

Why not pass Simpson Boles? REP and DEM came together with a solution. We are not even voting on it!

I don't have the answer to this one.  You'll have to ask Messrs. Obama and Reid why it never got a hearing, much less a vote.  The Republicans have no say in what gets debated on the Senate floor.  While you're at it, why not ask Mr. Reid why it's been 3+ since the Senate has put a budget up for debate or vote?

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#14) On March 24, 2012 at 3:17 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I KNOW! Dem have the blame in this too Obama and Reid. I am not agruing that! I am saying my view and what I think. Both parties need their heads checked!

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#15) On March 24, 2012 at 3:20 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I never watch MSNBC.

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#16) On March 24, 2012 at 3:58 PM, wolfman225 (68.74) wrote:

There may be hope yet. :)

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#17) On March 24, 2012 at 5:41 PM, HarryCarysGhost (99.70) wrote:

@#7

Ron Pauls a Libertarian, just ran on the Republican ticket for more awareness.

Cheers.

 

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#18) On March 24, 2012 at 11:36 PM, whereaminow (20.57) wrote:

Now you seem like a person that wants to try to work through problems, and you believe that if you use your reason, you can come to a sensible conclusion.  I think that's the only way to go.

So I want to ask you a question. The U.S. government has its own printing press, called the Federal Reserve. The Fed creates trillions of $ every year. In one recent year it is claimed that the Fed loaned out $16.9 Trillion (yes, with a T).  That money came from nothing. That number dwarfed that year's total tax reciepts.

So why do we have taxes, when the government can just ask the Fed to print any money it needs? 

Taxes are a relic of a bygone age before the government was completely unrestrained in its spending, it needed to collect revenue. It no longer needs to collect revenue. It can print whatever it wants.

So here is my question for you to answer, 

You have a government with a monopoly on the use of "legal" violence in the territory plus it's very own printing press.... why does it have so much trouble paying its bills?

David in Liberty

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#19) On March 25, 2012 at 10:36 AM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

There is a difference from the dollar being worth less over time and being worthless. In effect you are right we don't have trouble paying our bills. We inflate our way out of trouble. But there is a big difference in just printing as much as we need when ever we want. We don't just print a ton of money in an unorderly fasion. If we would have just printed 100 times the money u stated 1690 Trillion yes with a T the world market value of the dollar would not be what it is now based on other currencies.

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#20) On March 25, 2012 at 10:58 AM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

We do so much work in this country and have so many assets. That is growing every year at a certain rate. Then we have a currency. If the total amount of dollars printed get way out of hand. More dollars will be chasing the same amount of worked getting done. Thus the value of the dollar goes done. Inflation. We have planted the seeds for inflation and it is coming. That is why people have to invest their money and not leave it in cash. Those dollars being saved will no have enough purchasing power. Great Companies who have goods and services that are needed by everyone will demand more dollars because there are more dollars. It is a little wierd when you think about it. The price is going way up but really it is not. Growth rate plus inflation.

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#21) On March 25, 2012 at 7:49 PM, whereaminow (20.57) wrote:

That all sounds swell, and I'm sure some people actually believe that stuff.

But you didn't answer my question.

How does an institution have a monopoly on "legal" violence within a territory, and its own printing press, have so much trouble paying its bills?

David in Liberty

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#22) On March 26, 2012 at 11:03 AM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I guess I dont know what you are saying. We do not have trouble paying our bills. Can I ask you when the US has not paid a bill? Your ? dont make sense to me. I don't understand what you are saying please enlighten me.

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#23) On March 26, 2012 at 1:06 PM, whereaminow (20.57) wrote:

Well, you see I'm 37 years old, which is old in some circles and young in others. In all 37 years of my happy life, I've been subject to a yearly ritual (er, carnival) known as The Dreaded Debt Ceiling Debate. 

In every one of those years (and a man of 70 years of age could say the same thing), the same play has played out. 

The Treasury claims the USA can't pay its bills. Oh no!  The politicos spend weeks/months haggling over the soon-to-be-new-debt-limit.  Republicans are accused of eating children. Democrats are accused of fornicating with children. The media declares how so super duper important it all is.

An even better sideshow occurs on the blogoshpere. New monetary theorists tell us it doesn't matter, since the debt ceiling is "self imposed". Old theorists say it does but not right now because "spending is good" (not always, just every time they're asked).

And then it all goes away. Only to return next year.

So I'd say the US government has a long history of having difficulty making ends meet, and even paying its bills (though it usually does eventually pay - not always, but usually).

But why?  It has its own printing press. It can make whatever money it wants. It can and does print and spend for more than any tax receipt ever collected,

Do you think perhaps the tax debate is just something they use to feel important and involved, when in truth it just might be the silliest thing to get worked up over?

The IRS is a dinosaur. Taxes are a relic of an old age. Just print the darn money and leave us alone. Then those IRS agents can go on to become somewhat useful to us. I've already found work for them: I have a sh*tter that could use a cleaning.

David in Liberty

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#24) On March 26, 2012 at 4:31 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

Thats what I thought you were getting at. But all of this stuff does taxes...ect. has merit because we have a system that has checks and balances. Plus it brings order to a certain extend. So Greece should not care about its debt? We shouldnt' care about ours and worry about the system? Can I ask do you have kids? You have certain rules they must follow other wise they get grounded or punished in so way. So why would one of my kids follow the rules? Does it really matter? When he or she turns 18 they are out of the house anyway and can do what they want. Why don't I steal? Why don't I just spend money like no other then just file for bankrupcy? I could and some people do. Why dont' I? Because we have a system and I choose to follow that system. Sure it isn't perfect and some stuff is silly but as a whole I think it works pretty well.

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#25) On March 26, 2012 at 4:37 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

I am not getting to worked up but I like to express my views on the system. Just like you commenting on my blog. Why are you even commenting on it? Answer that question for me. Because does it even really matter, when in truth it just might be the silliest thing to get worked up over? 

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#26) On March 26, 2012 at 8:41 PM, whereaminow (20.57) wrote:

Why don't I steal?

Well, for one, you probably don't work for the government. 

Why are you even commenting on it? 

A friend pointed me over here. Not worked up about it. Just thought it would be fun conversation. But you've kind of derailed, so maybe not.

David in Liberty

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#27) On March 27, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Lordrobot (92.48) wrote:

So you're a socialist. IN the process, you kill the corporation, which can non longer hire you at 50K and the guy with the million makes less income and the guy with the disability lives like a king.

Instead cut the corporate tax to Zero. The shareholders make the profits which could include the guy on disability. It could include the millionaire and it could include you the employee on 50K. Instead of the Corp making the profits, the profits are distributed directly to the shareholders who have to pay tax on their dividends and have plenty left over. 

Your obama plan chokes the life out of everyone but government, it does less good and achieves less distributed wealth than pure capitalism. 

And that is why I would never vote for obama. 

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#28) On March 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

whereaminow sorry if you think that. I was just giving you some extreme examples. This blog was just some thoughts I had on what I thought.Then you gave this response.  

But why? It has its own printing press. It can make whatever money it wants. It can and does print and spend for more than any tax receipt ever collected,

Do you think perhaps the tax debate is just something they use to feel important and involved, when in truth it just might be the silliest thing to get worked up over?

And I just gave you reasons why is don't think it is silly. It is part of the system and it is important. And from your comments it seems like you are saying it is not important. I think it is. Just like me being finacially responsible in my life. You are too I am sure. You have a buget at home just like me and it is very important. Thats all I am saying.

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#29) On March 27, 2012 at 10:51 AM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

Lordrobot, I totally disagree. Lax the rules and taxes on the banks. Sure that worked well. Look what happened with the financial crisis. We let the banks lever up. That turned out well. Then I suppose we just let the market sort itself out. Every bank would have failed. WFC one of the best banks out there needed tarp money. So don't bail them out? If corperations didnt' pay taxes, were would have the money came from? The corperations use the roads and bridges etc the MOST. So they shouldn't pay in anything to get them built? To me that makes no sense. And you know what.... the Bush tax cuts are still in effect. It isn't helping one bit. Bush, congress and the senate totally messed stuff up in my opinion. Hey I loved Regan and Clinton. Taxes rates were much higher back then. The % the  corperations pay in is the lowest it has been in history compared to middle income tax payer.  

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#30) On March 27, 2012 at 11:01 AM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

Here is an example GE

Look at its financials.

EBIT for 2008 through 2010 was 57.81 Billion! Now look at their tax rates for those years 5.6% NEGATIVE 11.6% and 7.3%.

Even look at 2004 through 2007. They never paid over 18.2%.

Did anyone else pay this rate? I think it is BS. Why can't everyone pay 25%?

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#31) On March 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

One has to be a socialist and believe in free markets. Both go hand in hand. Rules have to be in place. If there are not rules people get in trouble. I used stealing as an example. Extreme? Yes. But I was just trying to get a point across.

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#32) On March 27, 2012 at 12:39 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

Some stats for everyone. 

Record high corporate profits as a percentage of GDP.

Record low corporate taxes being paid as a percentage of pre-tax corporate profits.

The percent of Federal profit tax of the corporate pre-tax profits for 2010 was 19%, which is historically very low.

Do you know what it was in the 80's under Regan? It averaged around 30%! Its much easier to balance the buget when you have that much extra in revenue. Did we stop growing under those conditions? With those extreme taxes. NO.

I know that is not the only problem.....spending must come down also. Again I come back to Simpson Boles. Both needs are met. Increase in taxes and spending cuts..

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#33) On March 27, 2012 at 12:43 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

This illusion that corperations are paying a tax rate of 35% is a myth. Unless 19% = 35%. 

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#34) On March 27, 2012 at 1:07 PM, valuemoney (99.99) wrote:

Total Corporate Profit after tax in 2010 was $1408.4 Billion, a record year! Adding the $329.6 Billion paid in Federal Income taxes gives us a pre-tax profits of $1738.0 Billion.

Now imagine 30% revenue instead of 19%. 30% of $1738 billion is 521 billion. An extra 191 billion. Revenues just went up over 50% on the corporate side. O no is growth going to stop because of 30% taxes. I go back to this comment I made. Do you know what it was in the 80's under Regan? It averaged around 30%! Its much easier to balance the buget when you have that much extra in revenue. Did we stop growing under those conditions? With those extreme taxes. NO.  Regan did an awesome job!

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#35) On April 09, 2012 at 12:21 AM, jgknot (31.01) wrote:

where am i now,

To answer you simply, this is what i can say.

You can't just print money and the federal reserve just don't, like you are saying.

printing money is like a company issuing more shares.

what happens is that it dilutes the value of the share, here it would be our dollar.

During the crisis, FED expanded its balance sheet to some 2.5T from around 1T, to address the crisis. And the other big economies did pretty much the same. so relatively everyone dilutes, hence the currency value stayed the same. But the assets raised in value, since the currencies lost their absolute value.(which by the way is happening for a long time, due to our debt going up, thats why there is a debate about raising the debt, as you can't just keep raising it, as someone has to pay for it, as of today we pay around .25T every year as interest ).

Value money, 

For the rest of the conversation , i have a lot to say, but i don't know if we can do it here now,  we need more facts to discuss it for real. I look for them once in a while, here are some links to throw more light.

 http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_budget_detail

 http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205

 http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/fed-balance-sheet-expansion-some-takeaways/ 

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#36) On April 09, 2012 at 1:35 AM, jgknot (31.01) wrote:

Some more thoughts here:

 http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/budget-debt-tax-revenues/725426

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#37) On May 22, 2012 at 3:51 PM, TigerPack1 (97.91) wrote:

I like most of your stock picks the last year (both up and down)... It looks like we think the same when looking for value.

Keep up the great work!

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