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The Rioting

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December 19, 2008 – Comments (21)

I have mentioned a few times I wonder when people begin to riot.  Seems I'm not the only one that has wondered.  There's a report about redirecting military for civil unrest and in response to financial issues.

I wonder how many will find themselves with wage cuts similar to Fedex

Flying back to Vancouver tomorrow for xmas.  This is just in time as far as I am concerned, it is -34 out there...  At -34 it doesn't matter if you are talking F or C because they are about the same thing.

21 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On December 19, 2008 at 7:49 AM, carcassgrinder (41.20) wrote:

So far the biggest riot has been for Wii consoles at Wal-Mart....

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#2) On December 19, 2008 at 9:08 AM, johnw106 (60.47) wrote:

I look for it to start either in California, Chicago or Detroit.

It may sound racist, but non white communitys of the poor and lower middle class are prone to rioting at short notice anyway.
It doesnt take much to get the mob going. If the government of California has to cut pay or lay off the working poor, or the union hacks in the North and North East lose their gravy train jobs bank, the crap will hit the fan.

The main reason Bush will keep the zombies of GM Ford and the rest alive is to avoid having to call out the National Guard and has nothing to do with helping the working class.

The government knows it is in deep shit. All our armys are scattered around the globe, stationed in 186 countrys. There arent enough soldiers in the US to keep the populace under control if things get ugly.

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#3) On December 19, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Schmacko (55.67) wrote:

Even if all of the US military personnel were in the states and not deployed the US doesn't have a big enough military to supress it's population if "things get ugly."  Even with the reserves and national guard the US military is less than 1% of the total US population.  All the paranoia on these forums about the US using the armed forces to supress the populace here is stupid.

NORTHCOM has one brigade.  One!  That's around 4000 soldiers.  Their primary focus is anti-terrorism response, but say they are going to be used to police unruly citizens.  Please tell me which city in the US is going to be supressed by 4000 soldiers. 

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#4) On December 19, 2008 at 10:31 AM, carcassgrinder (41.20) wrote:

Only a small percentage of the population of any city will resist.....therefore....with the proper shock and awe, perimeter control...and media examples of those who intially restist...I do believe that 4000 troops can submit about any city in the US.  The problems will arise after the population has time to organize underground....at this point...40,000 won't do the job.

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#5) On December 19, 2008 at 10:55 AM, HansHauge (32.92) wrote:

Did you guys know it's legal to buy machine guns in Idaho? I'm just sayin....

(I live in Idaho)

http://msncaps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=82112&t=02001341965050383132

 

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#6) On December 19, 2008 at 11:51 AM, GNUBEE (24.35) wrote:

CA +1, they will see the biggest changes

Go tell a Detroiter that they will see a pay cut, guess what- they'll jump for joy because they are still employed.

Chi-town- no opinion

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#7) On December 19, 2008 at 1:52 PM, djemonk (< 20) wrote:

I'll riot if the Dallas Cowboys make the playoffs.

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#8) On December 19, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Timh0rt0n (95.27) wrote:

If you feel so empty
So used up, so let down
If you feel so angry
So ripped off so stepped on
You're not the only one
Refusing to back down
You're not the only one
So get up

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#9) On December 19, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Billullo (< 20) wrote:

yea im already building a bunker in my backyard! Pretty soon i will start growing my own #%@$ and fly away from this insane world

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#10) On December 19, 2008 at 3:10 PM, rookie02 (61.32) wrote:

i am pretty sure that if and or when rioting will happen and it is any kind of sustained for any length of time the military ranks will reach a point that they have to either maintain thier loyalty to thier oath or protect their family. We as military have been so beatup with deployments, substandard housing, substandard food, and poor upper management that i can not see very few who would honestly stand a perimeter with our lives at risk while we wonder where our families are and if they are ok. it is one thing to be across the world with the home front fairly at rest and be able to put your life at risk for duty and country, it is completely another when you are within driving distance of your family and their well being is unknown.

another thing to remember is the fact that the first riots will be met with force unseen since the ohio campus incident. now... imagine if a crumbling nation watched as military men shot into a crown of disgruntled citizens... it would only fuel the fire and this country would slip inot a state of chaos unseen since the civil war.

 I am for it though... viva la revolution baby.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."  - Thomas Jefferson

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#11) On December 19, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Mary953 (78.83) wrote:

The historian in me cannot resist noting that the reason for the "right to bear arms" amendment in the Bill of Rights was expressly so that if we ever found ourselves at the mercy of a government that put its existence ahead of the rights of the citizens, we would be armed.  We would be able to remove, by force if necessary, any military coup or government ordered supression of our rights.  Therefore, amendments to make that difficult if not impossible, amendments like not having soldiers lodged in your home against your will and, yes, having the right to have guns, were written in by men not that far out of a revolution.

That said, I think that if ever the police or military was ordered to turn on citizens trying to defend themselves and "take back a town" that it would provoke a response similar to Pearl Harbor or 9/11.  We do not respond well as a nation to threats or to acts of violence against our citizens.  One action might catch us off guard, but only the first.  And I still refuse to believe that the people of this country would respond to hardship by falling apart.  I have watched the people around me.  They would pull together.  I have seen it before.  I believe I will see it again if it is needed.  We could meet violence for violence, but we do not need to.  These troops are our children, husbands, fathers.  They would not turn against us, nor we against them.  Trust.

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#12) On December 19, 2008 at 3:19 PM, nerd1951 (48.08) wrote:

I was around for the riots in '68 when MLK was assasinated.  Then there was Watts the summer before.  It was so bad that even with the National Guard out, they could only stand by and try to contain it while parts of nearly every major city were looted and burned.  The riots were the result of pent-up frustraion after years of economic repression.

You guys should try taking public transit some time and talk to the people riding on the bus with you.  Trickle down economics hasn't and the working poor have been working for too little for almost twenty years now.  The frustration is out there and it's real.  It's not just a bunch of union hacks or one particular racial group.  It's the people that landscape the office parks and clean the hotel rooms.  People who work two full time jobs to just pay rent and buy food. 

When these people can no longer find that second job and can't buy milk for the baby then I think you'll see the riots.

Everyone who is well off enough to care about what stock to buy has it better than these people and it's just an accident of birth that you aren't in their position.  I'm sick of the people on these boards who don't realize the priviledged lives they have and think that they earned it all themselves.  I'm sick of the self centered attitude that everyone who is poor deserves to be.

Only after the riots will people like you see the need for some balance in the system.  But then you'll only do it out of fear not out of a sense of fairness.

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#13) On December 19, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Timh0rt0n (95.27) wrote:

Wow Nerd that is the best post by far I have ever read on this board. But remember, tears are not enough. If you believe in what you are writing. Do something and I don’t mean start a riot. I mean reach out to your community and lead a hand to those in need. As corny as it sounds one person can make a difference.

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#14) On December 19, 2008 at 4:38 PM, eldemonio (98.63) wrote:

nerd -

Everyone who is well off enough to care about what stock to buy has it better than these people and it's just an accident of birth that you aren't in their position.  I'm sick of the people on these boards who don't realize the priviledged lives they have and think that they earned it all themselves.  I'm sick of the self centered attitude that everyone who is poor deserves to be.

While I agree with your general anger towards arrogance, I can't agree with your point that success in life is completely out of the hand of individuals, that it is merely an "accident of birth."  Life-long success is not dependent on the luck of the draw. 

When thinking about all of the suffering in the world, I realize that I am lucky to live where I live.  But I also recognize that my hard work has helped me reach where I am today.  

Fairness does not mean that everyone gets the same.  Fairness does not mean that someone cleaning hotels makes the same as a college graduate.  Is our system fair?  Hell no, but giving everyone a fair share of everything is not fair either.  Some people work harder than others.  Some people contribute more to society than others.  Fairness calls for these people to have more.

Unfortunately, we live in a society where everyone's problems are caused by outside factors.  We look for who we can blame for our troubles.  I have yet to meet one person who wasn't partly responsible for either their success, or their failure. 

People don't deserve to be poor,  people are poor, for the most part, because of decisions they make.  If you were right that once born poor, always poor - we would not hear of the rags to riches stories that define the American Dream.

Chances are that you will chalk this up to another arrogant bastard on this board.  You'd be right about me being an arrogant bastard - but your premise would still be wrong.    

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#15) On December 19, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Gronkt (40.56) wrote:

eldemonio -

 No one ever said that success or failure is all luck.  But it's a lot more luck than we like to think.  There are people in this country (you don't have to look at the "all the suffering in the world") who've had it much harder than me, and I can only imagine how hard it'd be just to come up from that and get a college education.  

 I've never had to worry about deciding between medicine and food.  I've never had to bring my kids to work because my sitter canceled and I can't take the day off or I'll lose my (terrible) job.  I've never had to break up ice in the toilet because we couldn't pay for heat.

 Nobody "decides" to go to an overcrowded public school with teachers that don't care, with facilities that are not up to date.  (Look at you!  You're on the Internet!  You've already got a leg up on a lot of people).  Nobody "decides" to have kids they can't afford, unless you call not having an abortion a decision.  You just can't say at all that EVERY person who has "failed" in life has been even partly responsible.

 Rags to riches stories are not popular because they are common, only because they are endearing.  For every story of someone who made it big and came from "nothing", there's a thousand other people who are working hard just to stay afloat.

Life long success may not be "luck of the draw", but life long failure most definitely can be. Report this comment
#16) On December 19, 2008 at 6:56 PM, rookie02 (61.32) wrote:

i go to work every day knowing that the job i have is a precious one. But i cannot stand it when people look at the car i drive or the place i live or the clothes i wear and think less of me. I have spent more than 2 years deployed to the middle east in the 8 years i have served so that the very people who scoff at me have the right and freedom to do so. Unfortunately there are many people out there with the drive and ambition but they are so stuck between living paycheck to paycheck that they cannot gamble a move forward because if they fail thier families will fail with them. it is the dedication to family and the willing to sacrifice a chance of success to gaurantee survival that will take people through these hard times. I dont want to sound too awfully jaded by saying this, but i will look forward to the day that i can stand tall and look at the former millionaire who once laughed at my living and thought of me as a lesser man, and smile as i hand him food and drink because he has lost it all and simply does not have the life skills to feed a family on less than 30k a year. I grew up on a farm with very little, i joined the military and i worked my ass off and sacrificed holiday after holiday away from my loved ones. I may not own a suit, i may drive a beater with a heater, and i may not have large sums of money in the bank, but by god i know that i can and would survive in the worst of times.

my main problem is i just dont understand this country allowing men and women who are willing to lay there lives on the line for poverty pay continue to struggle to make ends meet while taking money out of those men and womens pockets and giving it to the tune of billions to executives so that they can give themselves millions in bonuses.

this is where the imbalances become more than out society can handle and will become the fuel for rioting citizens.

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#17) On December 19, 2008 at 8:07 PM, BadTimes (< 20) wrote:

 I am for it though... viva la revolution baby

Now that's foolish.

Be careful what you wish for.

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#18) On December 19, 2008 at 9:25 PM, HansHauge (32.92) wrote:

dwot - Wow you really struck a nerve with this thread. I guess a lot of people are starting to think about civil unrest (or worse) as a real possibility. Good thread.

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#19) On December 19, 2008 at 10:02 PM, briyan (31.40) wrote:

There are most definitely choices to be made, and not everyone would be poor if you started them in the same life as a random poor citizen.

BUT - there is also a very large "luck of the draw" factor in your parents.  If you are smart and capable enough to become successful in life, you already lucked out in the first place because your parents didn't ruin you before you were old enough to think/act for yourself.

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#20) On December 19, 2008 at 10:29 PM, nerd1951 (48.08) wrote:

Tim,

I do lend a hand in my community.  I'm also trying to educate.  That's doing my part too.

To some of the other comments.  I'm not saying that it's impossible to overcome your beginnings or that there's no personal responsibility.  But we need to level the playing field a bit because it's damn hard in this country to get out of poverty by working hard and being responsible.  A lot harder now than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

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#21) On December 22, 2008 at 10:50 AM, dwot (40.33) wrote:

nerd1951, I completely agreed that it is harder. 

I think education is one of the most important things to leveling the playing field.  It certainly changed my position in life.

I think you've said things well rookie02.

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