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The Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad $372 Investment

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125

January 23, 2010 – Comments (157) | RELATED TICKERS: CRI , JNJ , KIDS

No, not 100 shares of some speculative no-name foreign company, and not a short squeeze of an illiquid high-flier. Let's talk about picking up the cost of something that could haunt you or someone you really care about for the rest of your lives ... and then continuing to affect others over time, much like a stone splash creating a ripple in a pool of still water. Can any $357 investment really be that bad?

Thirty-seven years ago today (January 23, 1973) the U.S. Supreme Court released two decisions known as Roe vs. Wade and Doe vs. Bolton, which collectively legalized abortions within the United States. Since that time, approximately 48 million abortions have been performed in these 50 states. The average cost of an abortion? $372.

The seeds of the culture of death were sown centuries ago, when sin entered the world through Adam and Eve's disobedience before God - an event tragically crowned by Cain's murder of his brother Able. The passage of time has not abated sin's deadly effects.

A culture that denies and defies God and that views His Word as a dated collection of legends with little authority is a culture shredded by violence and sensuality.

While the society in which we live tilts toward a perspective that regards humans as enhanced primates, we have a God who tells us clearly in His Word that we are made in His image. Likening God to a potter, a vocation that was common in those days, the prophet Isaiah wrote, "We are the work of His hands" (Isaiah 64:8).

Human life loses its value when life is not viewed as a gift from God, when we fail to recognize that humans are created in the image of God, and when we forget that mankind is different in kind and type than every creature in the animal kingdom.

Abortion is not a modern invention. This God-dishonoring cruelty was practiced in pagain civilizations, such as the Roman Empire and ancient Greece. While the spread of Christianity someone blunted this depraved practice by proclaiming an elevated view of human life, we still contend with the procedure that takes an innocent life to satisfy the needs of another, much older life.

Those enlightened by the truth of the Gospel should view the taking of innocent life, including the pre-born, much differently than those who remain in darkness. The blood of literally millions of unborn chi8ldren cries out to us from the ground, their lives taken, most likely because they were viewed as too expensive or too intrusive. These children had no spokesman or advocate, but were viewed as expendable.

If those of use who recognize God as the author of life are silent, then the ones who are increasingly threatened in a culture of death have little hope.

 * * * * *
How You and I Can Respond:

PRAY -- Pray for the woman and girls who are considering abortion. Pray that they will choose life, even amid difficult circumstances. Pray for the millions of women and men who are living with the trauma of having chosen abortion in the past. Pray that they would know that God is able and willing to forgive them. Pray for the staff of pregnancy care centers as they minister to those who are pregnant and frightened or experiencing post-abortion trauma.

ACTION -- Read what the Bible says about human life. Contact a pregnancy resource center to determine how you can assist their ministry. Opportunities range from answering the telephone to mentoring an expectant mother. Contact your elected representatives and ask them to vote for life at every opportunity. Educate and encourage your communities in the ways that can stand up for the rights of the unborn, the disabled and the elderly.

UNDERSTAND -- God considers every human, born or pre-born, as a precious gift from Him (Psalms 127:3-4). We must value them in the same way God does.

HOW CAN YOU KNOW JESUS CHRIST? Realize you are not in control of your future. Admit that you are a sinner. (Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3:23). Understand that God loves us, even in our sinful state (Romans 5:8). God desires that we turn away from our sin (Mark 1:15). Believe that Jesus is Lord (Romans 19:9-10, 13) by trusting in Jesus to be faithful in fulfilling His promises. Eternal life is a gift; we cannot earn it (Ephesians 2:8-9). Know that once you trust in Jesus, nothing can break your relationship with Him (John 10:28-29).

157 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On January 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, elboxeo (< 20) wrote:

question...

 

lets say a mother is about to make that choice of aborotion or life.... lets assume that the mother is extremely unfit, a disaster, no need rasing that kid... she recongnizes this for whatever reason (drugs, abusive, poor, horrible living conditions etc etc) yet chooses to have the kid so as to fall in line with your way of thinking that all life is precious yadda yadda...

 now that kid grows up in the WORST environment ever, around abuse around all sorts of poverty , no love etc etc.... all the stuff and worries the mom had are validated... and this kid through the lack of love , basic conditions, etc grows up to be a horrible INDIVIDUAL IN SOCIETY , horrible in that they commit horrible crimes and have no concept of love and compassion based on their upbringing or lack of... 

 

now question becomes ( in the god part) is this kid better off being aborted thus not having to go through a living hell or is he better off facing god's judgement on his time here on earth as being a horrible human being (killer rapist molester etc etc)??? 

 

after all the only person that will get judged by god will be the mother... what if god recongnizes that an abortion would spare a child from being eveutally raised as a horrible human being doing harm to others based on their horrible situation...  If god has the power to forgive that child who was raised through hell , why couldnt god give the same forgivness to those mothers that (although most could be considered selfish reasons ) choose to not bring in a life under undesirable conditions. 

 

and why is the emphasis based more on the unborn baby in a stomach rather than kids that live in poverty and harmful situations once they leave the womb.???

 

youd be amazed how many pro life people there are that want to deprive illegal immigrant children basic health services because they arent "citizens" as if that makes it a better reason...

 

former employee within social services in california...emphasis on former... lol  

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#2) On January 24, 2010 at 12:07 AM, goalie37 (90.72) wrote:

BravoBevo, do you see any of the rest of us Fools posting our religious beliefs here?  No, because we have the good sense not to shove our beliefs in each other's faces.  Why don't you do the same?

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#3) On January 24, 2010 at 12:10 AM, IU2007 (< 20) wrote:

Thank you for posting, BravoBevo. Proverbs 27:17.

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#4) On January 24, 2010 at 12:31 AM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

Nonsense.  If it has not reached a point beyond that at which it is nothing more than a clump of cells that hasn't yet even developed a nervous system it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Religion is...ah, I won't go there. But I should. You did.

Here's a question for you.   If you were 100% convinced that  "God"  wanted you to strap a bomb on your back and set it off in a crowded room full of innocent people....would you do it?

 

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#5) On January 24, 2010 at 1:07 AM, FleaBagger (28.19) wrote:

@elboxeo

If you want to do what is right, do not murder. Do not worry about the consequences of not murdering, just don't do it. If you worry about the lives of those who were born to single mothers, help those who were born, don't wish that they had been aborted. If placing a child with adoptive parents were as affordable as murdering her, yours would be a false dichotomy. Maybe you should spend your time and energy making adoption affordable for pregnant women who feel they would not make good mothers.

From what you wrote ("If god has the power to forgive that child who was raised through hell , why couldnt god give the same forgivness to those mothers"), it looks like you missed the part where BB said "Pray for the millions of women and men who are living with the trauma of having chosen abortion in the past. Pray that they would know that God is able and willing to forgive them."

He's right. God can and does forgive those who earnestly seek His forgiveness. That message needs to be spread to the millions of anguished women who deeply regret listening to those voices of violence who lied to them that "it's just a lump of tissue, it's not really a person" and convinced them to kill their own children.

God doesn't rank our sins as more heinous, or more harmless than any other sins. He comes to us and forgives our hearts if they ready to be forgiven.

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#6) On January 24, 2010 at 1:29 AM, starbucks4ever (97.86) wrote:

If abortion is murder, then contraception is genocide and oral sex is cannibalism.

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#7) On January 24, 2010 at 1:56 AM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

Well...any of you fanatics want to answer the question?  If you were one hundred percent convinced that God told you to strap a bomb on your back and go kill dozens of innocent women and children....would you? 

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#8) On January 24, 2010 at 2:34 AM, elboxeo (< 20) wrote:

to fleabagger.

 

it would be nice if it were that easy to just concentrate on pregnant mothers and adoption. but its not that simple. we all know that... Many people have been shamed into trying to "raise" kids when they shouldnt have any buisness having a kid.  It would be nice if adoption was as simple some people think but not, many kids end up in group homes (if they are lucky) or worse in enviroments that breed all sorts of hate. 

There are many kids in the system that get "aborted" by society and life at different ages.  During these ages is when society and people CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE! not a couple of days after two people have sex when in reality that "person" is nothing more than a cell.

People equate a small cell in the womb of a woman to a newborn baby and thats is wrong.  I find it disingenous when people of faith try so hard to come in between the choice of the indivudal and god in a private matter. Let God judge that indivdual for the reasons they have the abortion (many of those reasons WILL BE selfish ones but its up to god to determine judgement) 

My argument is that many people in the pro life movement seem to want to include themselves into the choice that a pregnant mother has and try to extract the responsibilty they have but yet once that kid pops out it then becomes the responsiblity of the parent (you had the sex and the kid right) or the state. I never can understand why the whole aborotion fight if there there is sooooo much work to be done with kids that are alive right now that gets ignored to go deal with sperm and eggs embroys as a result of one night stands.

"Pray for the millions of women and men who are living with the trauma of having chosen abortion in the past" as far as this quote goes, to be honest id rather spend more time praying for the many lost souls(children) alive here on earth that live in horrible conditions and that deal and endure abuse to the likes that most adults would blow their brains out if they went through the same thing. Me being a religious person (belive it or not) feel quite relieved that many of those "aborted" embroys if they did have souls or are people (i guess thats the major question) are in heaven not having to go through hell on earth. 

people shouldnt be worried about god forgivness to parents of aborted embryos, people should be worried about god forgiveness to the rest of us that allow (directly or indirectly) for kids to be chewed up and spit out by society. 

 

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#9) On January 24, 2010 at 2:35 AM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

Troubling question.  Sadly, for those who consider their "faith"  to be strong enough, probably a troubling answer as well.   September 11, 2001, thousands of people died because some religious nuts couldn't separate their particular fairy tale from reality.   Mankind needs to outgrow this nonsense.

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#10) On January 24, 2010 at 2:36 AM, HarryCaraysGhost (99.60) wrote:

Highway to Hell

then contraception is genocide and oral sex is cannibalism

If thats the case well.... see link above.

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#11) On January 24, 2010 at 3:05 AM, ozzfan1317 (78.61) wrote:

Bravo, I share and respect your beliefs other than the health of the mother I see no reason for abortion to be allowed it should not be used as a convienance. Unfortunately Adoption costs way too much and religious extremists will always cry that contraception is an excuse for premarital sex and shouldnt be allowed in schools the problem is if you think that just because kids wont do that stuff because you tell them its wrong good luck...lol

P.S. I believe that Jesus Christ is lord but no I am not going to blow up any buildings in his name to answer the instigation above. Also Bravo this is why you dont share certain things then you cause the streets to fill with ignorance. 

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#12) On January 24, 2010 at 3:14 AM, awallejr (75.87) wrote:

If you were one hundred percent convinced that God told you to strap a bomb on your back and go kill dozens of innocent women and children....would you? 

Umm, no. 

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#13) On January 24, 2010 at 3:54 AM, clubbervision6 (< 20) wrote:

The comments show very clear who´s American and who´s not!The Americans are more conservative, the Europeans (Germans, maybe?) are very liberal. Talking about God and abortions in 2010 on this board is out of time and even pathetic! A couple of weeks ago I heard somebody saying that the most profitable inventions man has ever made were religion and the cell phone! Good point, if we think how reach the church has always been! Good point if we think of all the pedophile bishops revealed all over the world! And very good point if you think about the Koran, which has given birth to a hudge terrorist culture among hundreds of millions of people! Thinking of what Karl Marx said, I have to underline that religion has been exploiting the human weekness for ages and that to be against abortion in 2010 is a sign of beeing against evolution.

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#14) On January 24, 2010 at 7:03 AM, weg915 (< 20) wrote:

I think you missed the point of the book.

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#15) On January 24, 2010 at 9:39 AM, jddubya (< 20) wrote:

+1 rec... despite my disagreement with the blog in general I recognize the value of ones right to freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

Knowing full well that a blog like this could be a lightning rod for all sorts of angry responses, BravoBevo nevertheless posts it.  Standing up for what one believes despite what others think is quite admirable these days.

And to address this question:

"If you were one hundred percent convinced that God told you to strap a bomb on your back and go kill dozens of innocent women and children....would you? "

Terrible question and obviously there can only be one answer, and that is yes - but the message from god wouldn't have mentioned the killing of innocents.   If God tells you to do something, you do it.

Disclaimer:  God has never told me to do anything - at least that I'm aware of...

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#16) On January 24, 2010 at 10:53 AM, ralphmachio (29.37) wrote:

If God tells you to do something, your crazy. Do not do it, do not pass go and collect 200 dollars, go directly to the looney bin. 

If you are contemplating abortion, you are obviously caught in your own mess involving temptation, sin, lust and are in the cycle of punishment for having these very natural feelings- sounds like a great sentence to give to some other poor unsuspecting soul who might be thinking of inhabiting a body...

Hey is that the same church who knew the Earth was round even though they taught it was flat? Haven't they also commandeered every pre-existing text explaining how we did get here, and then hid it away in their library? Were they not the purpetrators of the most heinous mass torture/slaughter(s) in the history of man? Just making sure... And is it not in their scripture to obey and pay tax to those who continue the Killing? just making sure...

And if god made man in his image (or vice versa), does that not give God the potential to be a real self-serving bastard? Just making sure... Hey I wonder if he has any trouble managing money too... (thanks George Carlin)

See, I don't doubt there is a God, Im just not afraid to spar with him for a few rounds. 

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#17) On January 24, 2010 at 11:37 AM, PaxtorReborn (29.93) wrote:

I wish I hadda gone long abortions in 1972.  That woulda been an amazing investment. 

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#18) On January 24, 2010 at 2:10 PM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

Where I live, here in SW Missouri, there is a rather large cult of people called "Amish"  that refuse to assimmilate into the modern world because of their religion.   They go everywhere in horse-drawn carriages.  My sister was a medical technician at a local clinic.  She hates them intensely.  They will not bring their children in to see a doctor till they're damn near dead. 

I don't think my question was out of line, either.  People have gotten very sick and died when they stopped taking their meds after going to a pentecostal or charismatic church and having "faith"  they were  "healed."   Sometimes the same people have withheld medicine from their children.    Sometimes the idiots even think they can  "take up serpents"  and they don't always get away with it.   And then there's the people who really want to believe they are  "speaking in tongues."  Uh, no.  They are not.  They are babbling a bunch of nonsense sounds.   Someone else at these things will usually also feel compelled by  "the spirit"  to stand up and  "interpret."  

It was German.  And my friend wasn't saying anything they said he said, and I don't know how we both kept a straight face.  

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#19) On January 24, 2010 at 2:33 PM, RonChapmanJr (32.92) wrote:

Another good post, BB.

As Christians we should be doing more to make adoptions easier in this country as well as adopting children ourselves. 

ron

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#20) On January 24, 2010 at 2:40 PM, tkell31 (25.22) wrote:

Religion.  I have a hard time taking religious zealots seriously.  Good intentions or bad they pretend to know what God (if you believe) wants.  They have no problem with justifying all the bizarre twists and turns religion has taken over the years and just adopt whatever currently fits their agenda. 

In my experience the more pious the more ugly and twisted they are inside.  They cling to their beliefs and like most cult like groups cant recognize that anyone else could possibly be right.  I feel bad for the people who judge others and feel compelled to speak out against them in the interest of "saving" them.

As far as creationism...I find it amusing God decided to make so many animals with 2 eyes, 2 ears, a nose, 4 appendages, similar circulatory systems, blood as a delivery system of oxygen.

Hey Bravo, judge lest not you be judged pal.  Looks like you are doing a little too much of the former...hope you can stand up to the latter.

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#21) On January 24, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Mary953 (79.07) wrote:

Bravo, friend,

I have been away from CAPS for a while.  It is good to see a post by you the same day I return, even on a topic guaranteed to draw fire.  It is frustrating to see God confused with our interpretation of how to serve Him (religion).  Religion can cause the most impossible, horrific, or even funny situations imaginable. (truth - I take it your friend was "speaking in tongues - of German?")

The fact remains that if you believe in God, which I do, and if you believe that He loves you enough even to have sacrificed His Son for you, which I do,  then you probably are aware that by believing just in that and accepting it, you may have everlasting life.  I Do Believe Exactly That!  It makes me want eternal and blessed life for everyone else and I am grateful to anyone who attempts to tell others about God in a public forum, knowing that somewhere someone may want to know that they are loved and not alone.  There is no better knowledge or advice, investing or otherwise.

How do I feel about abortion?  I want the government to stay away from abortion, religion, commerce, family, and anything else that they can possibly be kept away from.  I don't trust a bureacracy to handle anything that involves people or feelings.  Square peg, round hole. 

How do I feel about "church people" being self-righteous enough to declare that only they will be admitted to heaven (as in their little group and no one else's) - I hope that they are ready for a God with more love than they have.  And more forgivenness.

Stay well, Bravo, and keep blogging!

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#22) On January 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, bluebare (34.70) wrote:

Bravo,

Did you know that 43% of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant and 27% identify themselves as Catholic?

Please reread John 8:7 with this fact in mind.

bluebare

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#23) On January 24, 2010 at 3:27 PM, sevenofseven (< 20) wrote:

Did you know that 43% of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant and 27% identify themselves as Catholic?

East Germany used to be called the German Democratic Republic.  Everyone can be found out to be hypocritical in one way or another.  Some greater than others.

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#24) On January 24, 2010 at 3:29 PM, NOTvuffett (< 20) wrote:

Margaret Sanger's thoughts on eugenics:

http://www.eadshome.com/MargaretSanger.htm

 

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#25) On January 24, 2010 at 3:56 PM, RLAprof (< 20) wrote:

I would prefer that this thread had more to do with investing, so I would suggest the following. All persons who truly believe in the initial post should follow Bravo's call to action:

ACTION -- Read what the Bible says about human life. Contact a pregnancy resource center to determine how you can assist their ministry.

But I would add that you should put your money where your mouth is and donate all of your inventment earnings to this resource center, and then leave the principle to the same in your last will and testament. To do less would be hypocritical, at least if you read the rest of the Bible.

 

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#26) On January 24, 2010 at 4:10 PM, BravoBevo (99.97) wrote:

Since yesterday, there has been a lot of honest discussion. I appreciate that. Most people won't care about my struggle through this issue. That's okay. And being a guy, I have even less credibility than if I were a woman speaking first-hand. But for anyone that wants to listen, I do have a history to share.

I was "pro-choice".
As a teenager in the '70's, I was in high school when Roe v Wade was decided. I had heard stories of back-alley abortions, but the subject then was still very taboo. Outside of locker room chatter, no one back then even admitted to having sex. Public discussions about abortions were even more infrequent. The arguments for "a woman's right to choose" sounded persuasive, probably because we as Americans (more than anywhere else in the world) argue so much about our "rights". Even in classes at churches I attended in the '80's and '90's, I often would argue the "pro-choice" minority position to a majority of "pro-lifers" who could not articulate why "pro-choice" is unbiblical and why their position was Biblical.

An awakening made me reverse my stance.
And then one day, without any persuasive argument from a pro-lifer, it dawned on me. Abortion is very much analogous to euthanasia, mercy killing and selective genocide, in that it is part of the culture of death. What convinced me to do a "180 reversal" on this issue was for me to realize something profound (at least to me). Because only God has the power to give life, therefore only God has the right to take life. I understand that God has handed down to mankind authority under certain conditions to "kill" or "take life" of another human, such as inadvertent manslaughter from self-defense, rendering the death penalty (an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth), and even fighting and killing while under the conscription of the government's military. But none of those reasons extend to kill for the sake of expediency. Between you and me, most abortions occur because the kid or the pregnancy is inconvenient. God says "justice is mine, I will avenge."

God is sovereign and trustworthy.
And that is why I have become "pro-life." With only a few, very limited exceptions, God stands for life. God is the author of life; hence, He begins the life of every person and He alone has the right to take life. That is why suicide is wrong. That is why euthanasia is wrong. And that is why abortion is wrong. I don't expect everyone to jump on board with these views. It took me a long, long time to get here. But I continued to approach the question with a seeking heart. I asked God repeatedly for His revelation that I might not oppose Him. And this is the answer that was revealed to me.

Hard questions remain.
There are many ancillary objections from the argumentative. What about rape and incest? What about the monetary cost to birth a child? What about the cost to raise a child to adulthood? What if testing shows the child likely to have Down's syndrome or some other birth defect? What if the birth mom is chemically addicted to alcohol, or smoking, or crack? What if the parents are abusive? Doesn't bringing another child into the world doom the child to a life of poverty? Many of these are difficult questions without simple answers.

Opportunities and blessings abound.
For the women and girls who must face these questions, there are resources available by the providence of God. Especially here in America, where unwanted babies may be dropped off at local fire departments, police stations and hospitals for adoption. If a woman or girl lacks the necessities to bring the baby to a full term pregnancy, there are crisis prevention centers that can provide resources and a safe haven. There are adoption agencies with waiting lists. There are churches willing to provide help, if only one would inquire. And most of all, God gives grace to those in need who turn to Him for help. It is our arrogant pride that refuses to look to Christ, it is our on-our-shoulder pride that is easily offended by God's sovereignty when other people we know get into difficult life circumstances. Let us learn to live humbly, with clean hands and a pure heart, before a loving, righteous God who brings and sustains life.

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#27) On January 24, 2010 at 5:37 PM, NOTvuffett (< 20) wrote:

Bravo,

Frankly I object to the proselytizing on an investment forum, but even people like me who are not religious can appreciate the sanctity of life.  Would you drown an unwanted kitten or puppy?  They are lesser lifeforms, devoid of merit by our standard of measure.

When did it become the penultimate right of women to abort their unborn babies?

Yes, it is a baby.  When did anyone ever say "I initiated the growth of a cluster of cells in my wife's uterus, and I hope it will be a baby."?

The moment of clarity for me was when one of my sister's gave birth to a premature baby.  A baby boy.  They named him Joshua.  He lost his struggle to live a couple weeks later.  Was Joshua a fetus? a miscarriage?  Maybe today's medicine could have saved him.

 

 

 

 

 

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#28) On January 24, 2010 at 6:22 PM, RLAprof (< 20) wrote:

What did you kill for dinner? Or is it different if you have somone else do it for you?

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#29) On January 24, 2010 at 7:17 PM, fewl10 (< 20) wrote:

Wow.  I had no idea Jesus was so into investing...

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#30) On January 24, 2010 at 7:38 PM, alexpaz (29.12) wrote:

Amen sista!!! Pass the collection dish to Bravo Bevo

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#31) On January 24, 2010 at 7:47 PM, farmnut1985 (< 20) wrote:

Bravo,

 God bless and thank you for sharing.  I understand that this is an investment post, but how many other posts on this site are not really investment oriented and do not draw the quick remarks like a profession of faith.  For those of you who feel the need to mock, I pray for you that God may one day open your eyes to see his infinite glory and be humbled.  I am a sinner and I repent daily and thank him daily for forgiveness and for paying for my sins with his son's own blood.

I better not get started on the whole does God exist or was it the big bang, because I won't be able to stop.   

I am no investment guru so I am storing my treasures in a place in which the streets are paved with gold.  

 RPM 

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#32) On January 24, 2010 at 8:59 PM, ralphmachio (29.37) wrote:

Will someone kindly explain the mechanics of someone prepaying for my sin (which was being born of sexual union, as my creator intended), with their blood? 

I fail to see the merit in this, and it seems not only anti-climactic, but completely and utterly mechanically unsound.  

Has this ever worked except with Jesus?

What will you do to save the day? Oh, I guess I'll die...

Hey, whatever your omnipotence thinks will have the greatest effect. Personally, I would be a bit more proactive, if I had the backing. 

And the fact that we are born into sin-doesn't that insinuate that God made a mistake? I mean, if there was a better way to reproduce, wouldn't God have equiped us with that method? God has given us the best method because that is the only method for advanced life forms, therefore it cannot be a sin.

Has it never occurred to you to ask the obvious question- In who's best interest is it for me to think I'm not perfect, a sinner, and in need of someone else's interpretation of how the world works? It's an invisable membrane that some cannot cross called fear. You don't know what happens when the lights go out, so you want insurance.

And that is fine, so long as your fear does not get in the way of my freedom. 

 

 

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#33) On January 24, 2010 at 9:11 PM, SoonerBill (< 20) wrote:

After looking at some of the comments ,truth brings out the worst or the best in people.  

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#34) On January 24, 2010 at 9:28 PM, russiangambit (29.49) wrote:

People, the ones against early abortion, - how many kids you have adopted? If the answer is zero, which is very likely answer for most of you , then I don't see why you feel you have a right to preach to us what you don't practice. If a baby is unwanted then that baby's only chance to a decent life is to be adopted. 

 

 

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#35) On January 24, 2010 at 11:12 PM, devoish (95.76) wrote:

Bravo,

Suppose a woman was forced to have an abortion against her will, possibly without even her knowledge.

Would you feel any differently.

God says "justice is mine, I will avenge."

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#36) On January 25, 2010 at 12:21 AM, starbucks4ever (97.86) wrote:

A rec for the post, even though I disagree with it.

But I still fail to see how we're going to cope with overpopulation if we take that point of view. 

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#37) On January 25, 2010 at 2:25 AM, bluebare (34.70) wrote:

Hard questions remain.  What about the cost to raise a child to adulthood?

From The President's FY 2008 Budget and Children

Title IV-E Foster Care

The Administration's budget projects that Title IV-E Foster Care spending will be $4.581 billion.

Title IV-E Adoption Assistance

Federal Title IV-E Adoption Assistance spending is projected to increase to $2.156 billion, an increase of $136 million over 2007 costs.

Social Services Block Grant (Title XX)

Since 2000, funding for SSBG has been maintained at $1.7 billion.

29 states used $29 million in SSBG funds to assist in the adoption of children.

37 states used nearly $332 million in SSBG funds for foster care services to more than 542,038 children. That year, 509,000 children were in foster care on September 30.

38 states used more than $194 million in SSBG funds to protect children from abuse and neglect. In 2004, state and local child protective service agencies received an estimated 3 million reports of child abuse and neglect.

17 states used $8 million in SSBG funds to provide independent and transitional living services to more than 18,000 youth.

23 states used $83 million in SSBG funds supported residential treatment to more than 31,000 youth.

15 states used $13 million in SSBG funds to help more than 162,239 youth at risk.

Of course this is just a fraction of the wholly inadequate amount currently allocated for the annual public costs of foster care, adoption services, and child protection only.  It does not itemize any of the health care, education, and juvenile and adult justice  resources commanded by neglected youth. Perhaps this introduction will inspire you to learn more about how much it  costs to sustain an army of unwanted and neglected children. 

Outcomes for Children in Foster Care

After aging out of foster care, 27% of males and 10% of females were incarcerated within 12 to 18 months. 50% were unemployed, 37% had not finished high school, 33% received public assistance, and 19% of females had given birth to children. Before leaving care, 47 percent were receiving some kind of counseling or medication for mental health problems. (Courtney and Piliavin, 1998)

Back to the Future

If you are suggesting that we criminalize abortion, Bravo, the future would probably look something like this. 

Some advice back at ya

As you wrestle with this issue, Bravo, carefully consider the exhortation of Matthew 6:6.

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#38) On January 25, 2010 at 5:11 AM, awallejr (75.87) wrote:

"Well...any of you fanatics want to answer the question?  If you were one hundred percent convinced that God told you to strap a bomb on your back and go kill dozens of innocent women and children....would you?"

All you are describing is psychotic behavior and nothing more. A person could be convinced that 1 +1 in a base ten algabraic system equals 3, but being convinced does not make it so. 

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#39) On January 25, 2010 at 7:49 AM, fab4fanatic (< 20) wrote:

What does this have to do with investment? Go give money to a "Family Values" candidate or something. Don't waste our time.

http://yieldpig.blogspot.com/

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#40) On January 25, 2010 at 9:19 AM, alexxlea (40.14) wrote:

??????????????????

.............................

Well, no one says "go back to your stadium, damned sports fan" when people post random stuff about random things, and going in line with the whole freedom of speech thing this and the other opposing post (I disagree with the whole religious argument presented here, if it could even be called that, that's another matter) I'm going to post an epic post that has nothing to do with investing.

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#41) On January 25, 2010 at 9:20 AM, NoonanR (72.19) wrote:

"Well...any of you fanatics want to answer the question?  If you were one hundred percent convinced that God told you to strap a bomb on your back and go kill dozens of innocent women and children....would you?"  

 

No true believer would be 100% convinced to take such an action. It flies in the face of Christian doctrine, and the doctrine of many other faiths. God cannot lie.  If God were to tell one of his children to murder innocent people, God would become a liar and cease at that very moment be God. God cannot lie and would never require such an act of any of his children. 

 

 

Just because people say they kill in they name of God, does not mean God told them to kill. Those that do kill in the name of God fail to search and know for themselves true doctrine and are deceived by evil leaders posing as representatives of God that twist/corrupt the doctrine for power.

 

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#42) On January 25, 2010 at 10:19 AM, wkstyle (43.62) wrote:

I personally am against abortion unless it falls under the utmost terrible of situations (mainly rape/incest etc). However Roe vs Wade can directly be contributed to the rapid decline of crime in the USA in the '90s. Read Freakenomics, incredible book

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#43) On January 25, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Turfscape (42.55) wrote:

wkstyle wrote:
"However Roe vs Wade can directly be contributed to the rapid decline of crime in the USA in the '90s. Read Freakenomics, incredible book"

Actually, Freakonomics showed a correlation, not a causal relationship, between the two factors.

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#44) On January 25, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Turfscape (42.55) wrote:

PilotF22 wrote:
"God cannot lie.  If God were to tell one of his children to murder innocent people, God would become a liar and cease at that very moment be God. God cannot lie and would never require such an act of any of his children."

Make sure to go back in time and let Abraham and his son Isaac know that God would NEVER tell one of his children to murder an innocent person. And he would NEVER order that murder and then say "just kidding", either.

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#45) On January 25, 2010 at 1:08 PM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

See comment #18 for descriptions of various  "psychotic behaviors"  that religious nuts routinely engage in.

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#46) On January 25, 2010 at 1:08 PM, starbucks4ever (97.86) wrote:

 PilotF22,

You haven't read the Bible carefully. There are plenty of excerpts there that would likely put God in jail for inciting violence if he were to make his appearance today and repeat it in a public speech. Or at the very least he would be facing civil lawsuits for the rest of his life. And we are talking about the Bible here. The Koran and the Torah are even worse.   

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#47) On January 25, 2010 at 1:13 PM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

Thanks, turfscape

They are painfully good at ignoring the glaringly obvious holes in their defenses.

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#48) On January 25, 2010 at 2:11 PM, SoCalSteve (69.94) wrote:

RE: "proselytizing on an investment forum?" (NOTvuffett)

RE: 'What does this have to do with investment?" (fab4fanatic)

We invest within a culture and a government that is not static, but constantly changing.  We would like to think that there are constants that we can rely on.  I am thankful we live in a country that we can exectue a contract and reasonably expect it to be enforced.  Okay, ours is imperfect since examples of injustice abound!  Without a stable government structure to provide the legal system, provide for the common defense and the monetary system, we would operate in chaos.

Read the writing on the wall.  A country "of the people, by the people, for the people?"  To what extent does "culture" drive economy and investing? 

BravoBevo is wise to step back and look at the big picture and raise questions that point to the bigger questions we try to manage our lives by.  Wish I was as articulate, but then maybe if I engage in this forum I may eventually contribute something worthwhile indeed.  Proverbs 27:17 indeed!

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#49) On January 25, 2010 at 2:19 PM, StKitt (29.72) wrote:

One man's god (take your pick) is another man's reason to kill.

Violence and sensuality existed long before the concept of a moral scapegoat (read: all deities of any stripe). But conception of such scapegoats, or gods, made the practice of human violence and sensuality much more prevalent and efficient. Humans fighting over practical things, like the best hunting grounds or the best women, is at least an intellectually honest pursuit. Using a god as a moral scapegoat to cover up a human's real motives (to take the best hunting grounds or the best women) is intellectually dishonest. And the problem is compounded when the liar begins to believe his own lie, ad infinitum.

Gods do not exist outside their natural habitats: the minds of dishonest and weak humans.

God is merely a concept which seeks to drive humans, like cattle, toward weakness and dissolution, offering a bogus reward in exchange for abandonment of humanity's true abilities and virtues: intelligence, humility and respect for one's place in the world.

Yes, it is that simple.

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#50) On January 25, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Turfscape (42.55) wrote:

SoCalSteve wrote:
"I am thankful we live in a country that we can exectue a contract and reasonably expect it to be enforced."

Contracts are faithfully executed all over the world, throughout history, without the influence of Christianity, or even a dominant religion. And...how reasonable is the expectation of contract enforcement if you live in this country, but your people happened to be here prior to European settlement? Many Native tribes held out a reasonable expectation that contracts would be enforced by these "Christian" settlers...wow, were they surprised.

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#51) On January 25, 2010 at 5:25 PM, awallejr (75.87) wrote:

"Yes, it is that simple."

Simply put, but not that simple.

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#52) On January 25, 2010 at 7:37 PM, pickinmynose (< 20) wrote:

As he went out into the street, a man came running up, greeted him with great reverence, and asked, "Good Teacher, what must I do to get eternal life?" Jesus said, "Why are you calling me good? No one is good, only God. You know the commandments: Don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't lie, don't cheat, honor your father and mother." He said, "Teacher, I have from my youth kept them all!" Jesus looked him hard in the eye and loved him! He said, "There's one thing left: Go sell whatever you own and give it to the poor. All your wealth will then be heavenly wealth. And come follow me." The man's face clouded over. This was the last thing he expected to hear, and he walked off with a heavy heart. He was holding on tight to a lot of things, and not about to let go.

Looking at his disciples, Jesus said, "Do you have any idea how difficult it is for people who 'have it all' to enter God's kingdom?" The disciples couldn't believe what they were hearing, but Jesus kept on: "You can't imagine how difficult. I'd say it's easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye than for the rich to get into God's kingdom."

Keep this in mind as you invest and make huge amounts of money.

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#53) On January 26, 2010 at 4:59 AM, garifool (44.64) wrote:

I can't believe I read all those comments.

Is it because BravoBevo is no 1 that he can start so out of topic discussion? His post should have been deleted in the first place.

I think I read them because I am so eager to understand the American people. 

You know what? The supreme court decisions were never thought to be an investment! 

The persons who condemn abortion so fiercely would probably be the very same who would, a few decades later, approve to put that not aborted embryo on the death row, and to allow any "good" American to buy the most dangerous weapons and use them to protect their cute homes, to the risk that their cute kids would kill children in a school.

No God or Jesus ever was reported to have said:

"You my dear followers, have the right to decide who you want to kill"

"You need the land? It's OK to kill those who have lived it on it long before you!"

"You want gold, and good glod stcks in your portfolio? It's OK to close your eyes and let others do the dirty job of slowly but surely killing the population around, preferably not in your yard: Africa is a good place do do that."

"One of yours behaved really bad?  Call him a monster first, so that you will make certain you are not of the same specie, and put him "humanely" to death."

I have often heard and read that "God" said "Thou shall not kill". But I have never read that he said: " Thou shall not kill, with some exceptions that I let you judge by your-self".

I just hope that you know of 48 million couples (for sure in your state of mind, no singles and no homosexuals) who would have adopted those aborted fetuses.

 

 

 

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#54) On January 26, 2010 at 6:14 AM, RonChapmanJr (32.92) wrote:

I posted this elsewhere, but since that discussion came from this one, I'll post it here.

It has been said that BB's post had no relevance to investing, but I would disagree with that.  Personally, I invest heavily in other countries because I think the US is on a negative trajectory.  I think we are on such a path because we have moved away from our Christian heritage and one of the main ways I believe we have done that is through legalizing abortion. 

So in a nutshell, BB's post has more to do with my investing than 99% of the posts on this site.

 

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#55) On January 26, 2010 at 8:09 AM, devoish (95.76) wrote:

#56)

Far more damaging to America, in my opinion, was the decision that corporations have the same rights as individuals.

And yet they do not die or procreate. Nor are they jailed.

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#56) On January 26, 2010 at 10:14 AM, ClandPhoenix (80.67) wrote:

Is this an investment site? I try to avoid irrational view points based on fairy tails but here they are.

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#57) On January 26, 2010 at 10:59 AM, StKitt (29.72) wrote:

Devo,

Can gay corporations merge? Ha ha ha!

Chapman,

By "our Christian heritage" do you mean the application of violence, escalating to the level of genocide, in order to monopolize a nation's wealth and resources? Please explicate, as your term is far to broad, and polluted with crimes against humanity, to be clearly understood by any thinking person.

In this day and age, would Jesus Christ recognize a single, so-called "Christian"? Ever read The Grand Inquisitor by Dostoevsky? I recommend it highly.

"Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb like the sun; it shines everywhere." ~ W. Shakespeare

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#58) On January 26, 2010 at 12:17 PM, turdburglar (39.10) wrote:

Good post BB.

It's funny to see all the whining that someone posted something "off topic" and yet it draws 60 comments.  Obviously no one was interested in the subject.  :)

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#59) On January 26, 2010 at 1:54 PM, tgauchat (33.41) wrote:

Is it really appropriate to provide a forum for religious proselytizing on a financial forum?

It's impressive this fellow is "Top Fool", but is that a license to subject all CAPS members to his religious views?

I hope the Fool sets some guidelines in this regard.

Thank-you.

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#60) On January 26, 2010 at 5:11 PM, MarginCallMcW (21.84) wrote:

How can somebody who is so good at identifying bunk companies be so easily sucked in by a bunk religion (any of them)?

It is refreashing to see (judging by the comments here) that I high proportion of the caps communinty doesn't fall pray to that crap.

If you still think that a fairy taile about Jebus becoming a zombie 2000 years ago means that you are going to get to live in the cloulds for eternity then you should do some investigating. Start here

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#61) On January 26, 2010 at 5:22 PM, MarginCallMcW (21.84) wrote:

I just noticed an ironic misuse of the word "prey" in my above post.

I wanted to also add that I am very much in support of BravoBevo's right to say what ever he wants to on these forums. He has earned the top spot and I think it is fine if he wants to use it a soapbox to discuss his religious/social views. Just don't forget that we have the right to say those views are stupid. 

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#62) On January 26, 2010 at 5:24 PM, longhornallday (35.56) wrote:

There is a story about a little boy who prays to God and asks "God why have you not helped someone find a cure for all the diseases in the world" and God replies "I have sent a baby 48 million times who would be capable of finding the cure, but everytime I send him ya'll kill him."

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#63) On January 26, 2010 at 11:19 PM, devoish (95.76) wrote:

StKitt,

;-)

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#64) On January 27, 2010 at 3:42 AM, ibh1111 (< 20) wrote:

maybe Top Fool is top because of the information he gets from his god. Ever consider that, a direct line to the one that apparently determines all our fate, better than insider trading!

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#65) On January 27, 2010 at 6:54 AM, BigBugBuzz (< 20) wrote:

How can something come from nothing? We cannot understand it! Religions of various kinds attempt to impose certainty by reference to faith. How do we decide what we should believe?

For me, a religion that teaches us to be good to each other, has special value. If we all were good to each other, how can we ever have enemies? Our world would become the most a wondrous place, not least for unborn children. Yet, the very fact that we are not good to each other, seems to give us reason to kill each other. Cruelty breeds cruelty.

From an intellectual point of view, I find it interesting that simple rules such as turning the other cheek, and treating others, as you would want to be treated, are needed to stop the cycle of cruelty. Because these were the teachings of Jesus, I find comfort in his teachings, which I do not find in religions that preach hatred and revenge.

Be good to each other, and have a pleasant day!

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#66) On January 27, 2010 at 1:01 PM, dicartacash (74.05) wrote:

BravoBevo,

I think you missed the point of Roe v Wade: the real question is, how far does the jurisdiction of government reach?   The strength of our government lies in our ability to choose what powers we grant it.  Your and my investments depend on that!

I lament those facing the prospect of an unwanted child and pray that they get the right guidance and follow their concience (not yours) lest they face the burden of perrenial regret.  I rejoice that our government gives that responsibility to the individual (and not you, or anyone else).

If you want to talk about the bad effects of a culture of death, you might focus instead on the environmental rape of our planet and how the world's population growth that cannot sustain itself.  Indeed, it would be most apropos as we *do* grant our government the role of protecting common resources.  May I also add that your proselytizing skills would be better utilized on this form in this manner!  We need moral guidance on how to cope with this population conundrom.  And if you find solid companies with good solutions, please share you findings so that we can invest early in the winning ones ;-)

 

 

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#67) On January 27, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Somnambulo (74.24) wrote:

From an financial perspective, BravoBevo lists $372 x 48 million abortions. First off, where did the $372 come from? It has somehow stayed at that cost despite 3-4 decades of quantitative easing? But assuming that figure is somehow correct, we should then try and forecast how a certain percentage of these unwanted children, were they to be raised by their unwilling parents and/or foster care, would ultimately add a huge cost to our welfare system and prisons; perhaps someone can offer up a figure based on the book Freakonomics.

Great to see the CAPs leader thinks its a smart idea to consult from a 2,000 year old text as a guide. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jesus never said a word about slavery. Feel free to paste a reference if you can find it, and I'll paste the section where God gives the Israelites permission to slaughter their neighbors. I think it might be time to consider ramping up secular morality, because the good book has a lot of mixed messages in it.     

      

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#68) On January 27, 2010 at 9:12 PM, jed71 (90.56) wrote:

zloj wrote,

"You haven't read the Bible carefully. There are plenty of excerpts there that would likely put God in jail for inciting violence if he were to make his appearance today and repeat it in a public speech. Or at the very least he would be facing civil lawsuits for the rest of his life. And we are talking about the Bible here. The Koran and the Torah are even worse."

The Torah is a part of the Christian Bible. It is also called the Pentateuch. It consists of the first 5 books of the Bible; Genesis through Deuteronomy. You might have meant the Tanakh, the Mishna, or the Talmud in your comment above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

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#69) On January 28, 2010 at 1:26 AM, CVMp (90.81) wrote:

 

http://www.godisimaginary.com/index.htm

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#70) On January 28, 2010 at 6:24 AM, wrkdiver (< 20) wrote:

BRAVO

I like your post. 

For the "f you were 100% convinced that  "God"  wanted you to strap a bomb on your back and set it off in a crowded room full of innocent people....would you do it?" Some insane persons think they hear God's voice, some the Devil, and some just voices in their heads.... they are INSANE! Actually, I know of only one religion which(according to its followers who are fanatics) commands (so they say) them to kill unbelievers, and PLENTY of its adherents say that is incorrect. In any case, it sure ain't Buddhism, Christianity, or Judaism.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH - FIRST Amendment to the Constitution, Remember? 

Ill bet Dicartacash truly believes in"Global Warming" caused by

us -- did anyone tell you it was 17 degrees in Miami the other night? Maybe they should have left ol' Al Gore out overnight! Oh, yeah, and scientists report the ice is melting on Mars - gee, did we cause THAT too?

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#71) On January 28, 2010 at 6:46 AM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

As I said...see comment #18 for plenty of evidence of behavior that can generally be viewed as  "psychotic"  OR  "insane".   Nothing wrong with my question when I see behaviors like these.

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#72) On January 28, 2010 at 6:54 AM, starbucks4ever (97.86) wrote:

" You might have meant the Tanakh, the Mishna, or the Talmud in your comment above."

jed71,

Of course I know that the Torah is just the Old Testament. But in the Bible, you at least have the New Testament, which allows you to gloss over some of the more odious quotes from the older part. With the Torah, I'm afraid, you're more or less stuck with extremist hate-speech of the Old Testament. Yes, people have tried to modernize Judaism, but there are limits to what the original text will bear. 

 

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#73) On January 28, 2010 at 12:40 PM, BuffetsMentor (< 20) wrote:

why the hell is this on CAPS?

 

and hahahahaha paxtorreborn that was hilarious

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#74) On January 28, 2010 at 2:23 PM, mikotian (99.91) wrote:

this is hilarious.

God bless Roe v. Wade

Amen

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#75) On January 28, 2010 at 3:04 PM, IndianaPwns (79.09) wrote:

BravoBevo is a joke

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#76) On January 29, 2010 at 11:28 AM, rednekkin (< 20) wrote:

God is in control -- total control -- and He wants you to thrive and prosper.  You will if you understand Who spins the Earth and is the lift under every butterfly wing.  Get with the program.  Understand how the universe really works.  It is not under the control of -- or even within the ken of -- the puny human intellect.  We are posers. 

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding -- Proverbs 3:5

Thank you for having the courage to witness for Him and speak up for the 50 million children killed since America embraced the culture of death.

May He lift you up and cover you.

 

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#77) On January 29, 2010 at 11:40 AM, jddubya (< 20) wrote:

"Some insane persons think they hear God's voice, some the Devil, and some just voices in their heads.... they are INSANE!"

Well... that just wrecks any possibility of a second coming.  Jesus shows up one day, then he and any of his followers are labled "insane" and are put away... lol

I suppose Jesus would have a chance in H3ll though...

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#78) On January 29, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Turfscape (42.55) wrote:

jddubya wrote:
"Well... that just wrecks any possibility of a second coming.  Jesus shows up one day, then he and any of his followers are labled "insane" and are put away... lol"

That's basically what happened the first time around, isn't it?

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#79) On January 30, 2010 at 12:30 PM, adb11 (94.29) wrote:

This is just rediculous.

 But we can feel lucky BravoBevo isnt a scientologist.

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#80) On January 30, 2010 at 2:09 PM, FleaBagger (28.19) wrote:

God bless you, BravoBevo, and don't let the haters get to you.

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#81) On January 31, 2010 at 10:24 AM, dcstrade (78.40) wrote:

There's no doubt the country was founded on the notion of liberty.  If liberty includes the respect for human rights, in such a way that none of those rights infringe on anyone else's rights, then the legal argument about abortion is about whether or not a fetus is human.  Surely if it is human, then its rights are being infringed on by the mother's right to an abortion, leaving abortion ill-defined as a right.  If it is not a human, then it is just food-chain or survival mentality - people do have the right to do what they need to do to provide for themselves and work towards happiness.  I find this argument is going to divide people philosophically no matter what, but I think it would be a better idea for states to determine this law rather than federal government.  Let Americans live happily by choosing the state they want to live in, whether it be based on abortion, marriage, taxes, or just the people around them.

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#82) On January 31, 2010 at 10:41 AM, dcstrade (78.40) wrote:

... although from the perspective of those that believe humans are no different than the other organisms on this planet, there is no reason that human rights should not extend to all forms of life.  This would definitively make abortion an infringement of the rights of the fetus.  Therefore, anyone who advocates legalizing abortion, and respects rights, should be treating the human race as a species elevated above all other species.  This begs an obvious question which will spawn a hypocritical debate about creationism.

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#83) On February 01, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Nomadizer (< 20) wrote:

I guess we should go out and post stock market reviews on religious websites.

Just out of curiosity to see how long it would take till these god and life loving people would tell us that their site is devoted to religion, not money, and kick us out .

The guidelines state that no off-topic stuff should be posted or commented.

Where are the fool.com people to remove this religious stuff?

 

 

 

 

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#84) On February 01, 2010 at 11:40 AM, jlmjlm77 (99.16) wrote:

Who came first?  God or money?

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#85) On February 01, 2010 at 3:00 PM, yongg1028 (32.80) wrote:

decrease in crime rate in the 1990s' is due to increase in abortions in the 1970s'

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#86) On February 01, 2010 at 3:13 PM, BMFPitt (72.05) wrote:

Which brings me to the question "Why is there not an ignore user button?"  That way I wouldn't have to deal with this idiot posting his morality on an investment board again.

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#87) On February 01, 2010 at 7:56 PM, fjt3 (< 20) wrote:

Ever hear the saying about there being no aetheists on the battlefield?  It' easy to be agnostic or aetheistic when not faced with bullets whizzing overhead and around you. May the Lord Jesus bless you, Bravo. As a Christian I know that you know that anyone who proclaims Jesus to be the Son of God will be persecuted, much like is happening in this blog, and as Jesus promised. For anyone who sincerely wants to know if Jesus is real, I pray that you seek Him. It's not like we live in a society where the Bible, prayer or attending church are banned. If you really want to look into the matter, it's quite easy. And, yes, abortion is the taking of a human life as opposed to a clump of human cells or fetus. The Bible says, "I knew you when you were in the womb."

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#88) On February 01, 2010 at 8:05 PM, andcheese (< 20) wrote:

The easiest reaction to Bravo Bevo's comments is to write it off for any of the commonly accepted reasons: crazy, religious zealot, right wing, conservative, maybe even southern :)  But, the much harder task is to evaluate the merits of his words against what may be objective truth.  This debade doesnt start with things like abortion, rather it is totally secondary to the issue regarding the existence of God.  Not that this is where a truly educated debate on this subject should take place.  If you're too lazy to go throught he hard work of seeking out the existence of God because of what you may or may not have seen in other humans than nobody should care what you think about abortion.  Here are my Actions now that we've opened the door for this:

ACTION: If you like lively debate on all topics of CAPS interest, keep reading.  If you dont, click the little red X at the top of the screen.  If you're still here and havent totally resolved in your mind how God may view you, than I'd suggest doing some good reading in areas other than CAPS blogs!  I like Frances Schaffer to start.

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#89) On February 02, 2010 at 6:52 AM, adartmouth (25.35) wrote:

LOL!!!!

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#90) On February 02, 2010 at 4:17 PM, benyanc (32.09) wrote:

I have a serious question that in no way is meant to be harassment or a taunt of any sort. If you feel that my post is satirical in any way, I assure you it is not, and I hope you are able to address my question objectively to the best of your ability and knowledge.

My knowledge of Christianity and the Bible is quite limited. However, I think I know enough of the basics to declare the following premises and to pose the question:

 

Premise 1: a child unborn has not had a chance to commit sin.

Premise 2: if performing an abortion is a sin, then the sin lies entirely with the performing doctor and the mother/parents of the aborted child.

Premise 3: those without sin and those whose sins have been forgiven by God go to Heaven after death.

 

3-Part Question: Does a child aborted before birth go to Heaven? If so, is this not a better path to Paradise than a life potentially filled with sadness followed by a risk of entering Hell? And again, if the previous is true, do a mother and doctor not deserve the praise and forgiveness of God for delivering him a pure soul, rather than one due to be tempted by the Devil?

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#91) On February 02, 2010 at 4:17 PM, allied35 (< 20) wrote:

It's amazing how religious people know exactly what Jesus and God say and think and want.

Small problem with this though...

There is no contemporary evidence that Jesus even existed. Did you know that? It's true, there is not a single mention of Jesus in any document, text, inscription etc from the time he supposedly lived. Not one. 

There is loads of contemporary info about other people who lived around the same time such as Julius Caesar, but nobody mentions Jesus till at least 40 years after he supposedly died and most of the bible was written many years after even that first mention. 

Anybody who does a little research into this, if they are open-minded, will have to admit that it is quite possible, if not likely, that the whole Jesus story is fiction. 

And why is the god of the Bible to be worshipped and "loved" anyway???

If you replaced the word "God" or "the Lord" with "John Doe" and then read the bible, you'd come away thinking that John Doe was a genocidal, egotistical, despotic, sexist, mass-murdering tyrant. The last thing you'd do would be to worship him. You might as well worship Pol Pot or Stalin.

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#92) On February 02, 2010 at 4:49 PM, BullMktAg (< 20) wrote:

I will dig into this, but I do know for a fact that not a single archaelogical excavation has proved the Bible (NT included) to be inaccurate. (Ahem, pun intended.)

For some reason, the names Tacitus and Josephus come to mind as mentioning Jesus - both men authored historically accurate documents outside the Bible.

Because you can't prove a negative, I guess the impetus would be on you to investigate the two previously named individuals as well to see if they do, in fact, mention Jesus.  It's a starting point.

I'll post more information as I come across it.

Lastly, I come away with the sense that you probably have not read much of the Bible.  I also sense that your repsonse would be that you were educated in a Parochial school or were a believer but lost your faith in college.  I don't know why I assume you're college educated.

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#93) On February 02, 2010 at 5:26 PM, benyanc (32.09) wrote:

First, the writings of Tacitus and Josephus were produced many decades after the supposed death of Jesus (late 1st century and 116, respectively). This does not constitute a time CONCURRENT with the time of Jesus. Imagine someone who wrote about Bill Gates one century after his death with little or no previous material to base on. How accurate would his account be? Who would believe his story? Modern scholars only believe in the partial authenticity of the documents at best. Much doubt remain.

Second, both writings mention Jesus or Christians at the time; however, they offer no verification of the Christian story, but rather an account of events or people between the time of Jesus and their own. This is not a proof of the validity of the Christian story. Steve told Jane that the Earth is flat. I write in my diary that I had a coffee with Steve today. Therefore the Earth MUST be flat.

If you choose to believe in your faith, I trust no one here would object to it. However, if you attempt to use elements of your faith as a tool of logic, then expect doubts to be introduced and holes to be found in your arguments. Descartes was a religious man, yet he said (paraphrased) everything I know must be doubted, and only those found to be indubitable must be true. (He also tried to use logic to prove the existence of God; it didn't work out very well)

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#94) On February 02, 2010 at 7:46 PM, IndianaPwns (79.09) wrote:

I feel like cognitive dissonance is the driving force behind most of the religious chatter around this forum. Also, the question of what came first "god or money" is kind of silly. Especially considering that people existed for thousdands of years before any structured numerical system or currency.

 

..I give this blog one recommendation for its comedy value.

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#95) On February 03, 2010 at 1:09 PM, beowoof (28.72) wrote:

I hope someone else gets #1 soon!

I can't stand any more proselytizing...could the comment rules be changed to allow only investment related comments just because of people like BravoBevo? It only takes one to create the need for a new rule.

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#96) On February 03, 2010 at 3:12 PM, JJMuggs (< 20) wrote:

As calice as it may sound, we can thank Roe v. Wade for drastically reducing the crime rates in all major North American cities (source - Freakonomics).  All those 'unwanted' babies raised by people who dont want them, or are in no shape to raise them .. that's the cycle of crime and poverty getting curtailed in a very pragmatic way.

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#97) On February 03, 2010 at 4:18 PM, MaxTheTerrible (86.97) wrote:

How You and I Can Respond:

PRAY -- Pray for the woman and girls who are considering abortion. Pray that they will choose life, even amid difficult circumstances.

I have no problem with that. Let all the pro-life activist pray until the kindgdom come. Pray, but don't take further actions like lobbying for laws to change. If God is allmighty he surely will listen!

ACTION -- Read what the Bible says about human life.

Bible is just a book. Why not read another book, like Freakonomics, on the same subject?

Contact your elected representatives and ask them to vote for life at every opportunity.

I'd suggest you just pray.


UNDERSTAND -- God considers every human, born or pre-born, as a precious gift from Him (Psalms 127:3-4). We must value them in the same way God does.

Again, that's just a passage from a book, which is a reflection of authors opinion. Why should I believe everything that's written in this particular book is beyond me...

 

 HOW CAN YOU KNOW JESUS CHRIST? Realize you are not in control of your future.

That's VERY COMFORTING (*sarcasm alert!*)

Admit that you are a sinner. (Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3:23).

OK, I'm a sinner.

Understand that God loves us, even in our sinful state (Romans 5:8).

That's very comforting.

God desires that we turn away from our sin (Mark 1:15).

No, thank you. I actually like drinking alcohol and having sex. Besides if I ever decide to go to heaven, all I have to do is to confess, preferably on a deathbed.

You see - Catholicism is not that different from investing - it's all about the timing!

Yeah, I know, I'm terrible... Report this comment
#98) On February 03, 2010 at 4:39 PM, PaxtorReborn (29.93) wrote:

I paid 500 bucks for front row seats at Roe v Wade.  Boy, was i pissed off when I found out it wasn't a boxing match!

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#99) On February 03, 2010 at 4:39 PM, PaxtorReborn (29.93) wrote:

I paid 500 bucks for front row seats at Roe v Wade.  Boy, was i pissed off when I found out it wasn't a boxing match!

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#100) On February 04, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Saluki89 (78.50) wrote:

I continue to be amazed at the level of anger, hatred and intolerance that is expressed by those who consider themselves enlightened because of their lack of religious faith.

 

 

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#101) On February 04, 2010 at 6:47 PM, ClandPhoenix (80.67) wrote:

I continue to be amazed at the level of unsupported, meaningless, baseless nonsense spewd by the faithful. Jesus probably looked very similar to Osama Bin Laden. The Catholic Church is responsible for as many deaths as any other single source. Does the church you go to spend their money on helping support adoption? The last time I went to a religious funeral two people showed up in luxury cars me and the pastor... hmm guess he spent the tidings on a car instead of adoption.

 

I'm good I will just buy my way out of hell... they have sold that in the past too.

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#102) On February 05, 2010 at 2:16 AM, johnnycashingout (< 20) wrote:

" God does everything that He does, absolutely everything, for the sole purpose of displaying His glory"....Where's the glory in a devastating earthquake in Haiti???   If this was some sort of "test" or advertisement for how we can all come together in a time of crisis, a hundred thousand dead is too high a price.

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#103) On February 05, 2010 at 12:45 PM, BravoBevo (99.97) wrote:

@johnnycashingout:  You asked "Where's the glory in a devastating earthquake in Haiti???" That's a fair question. It is a double grief when lives are lost and lessons are not learned. Every deadly calamity is a merciful call from God for the living to repent. “Weep with those who weep,” the Bible says. Yes, but let us also weep for our own rebellion against the living God. Lesson one: weep for the dead. Lesson two: weep for yourselves.

In Jesus' day, folks looked for meaning in the butchery imposed on them by the opressive Roman government. Jesus reminded them of the people crushed when the Tower of Siloam fell, in Luke 13:1-5. I don't know if the tower's faling resulted from an earthquake like the one in Haiti, but perhaps.

"There were some present at that very time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.  And Jesus answered them, 'Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.'"

Jesus’ stunning statement is that every deadly calamity is a merciful call from God for the living to repent. Repent. Let our hearts be broken that God means so little to us. Let us grieve that he has become a whipping boy to be blamed for pain, but not praised for pleasure. Let us lament that he makes headlines only when man mocks his power, but no headlines when ten thousand days of wrath are withheld. Let us rend our hearts that we love life more than we love Jesus Christ.

This is the point of all pleasure and all pain. Pleasure says: “God is like this, only better; don’t make an idol out of me. I only point to him.” Pain says: “What sin deserves is like this, only worse; don’t take offense at me. I am a merciful warning.”

Jesus said that the minutest event in nature is under the control of God. “Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.” He said this in Matthew 10:29 to give hope to those who would be killed for his name.

Jesus himself stood on the sea and stopped the waves with a single word in Mark 4:39. Even if Nature or Satan unleashed the deadly earthquake, one word from Jesus would have stopped it. He did not speak it. He is not whimsical. So this means there is design in this suffering. And all his designs ultimately are wise and just and good.

One of his designs is that this earthquake is calling for my repentance and yours, too. Therefore I will not put God on trial. I am on trial. Let's repent. Repentance is a good place to be.

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#104) On February 05, 2010 at 1:44 PM, artdav (48.30) wrote:

Last time I checked, this service was about stocks!  I guess the next debate I'll see is on the age of the planet.  This religious debate is off-topic and underscores the need for a better education system.

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#105) On February 05, 2010 at 2:15 PM, PaxtorReborn (29.93) wrote:

He's just mad because he shorted abortions in 1999.  shoulda shorted the tech bubble!

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#106) On February 06, 2010 at 10:14 AM, mostofall (57.08) wrote:

at least I got my Sunday school in early this week. Now I can focus my prayers for the people of New Orleans and their beloved Saints. They got "aborted" by their own Government, and look how well it turned out...

    Oh yeah, I also pray that the Euro won't collapse and the market will bounce back amidst all these great 4Q earnings reports. Then maybe we could all make a "killing"

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#107) On February 09, 2010 at 11:36 AM, TheGreatSatan (99.98) wrote:

Dude, shut the f--- up with your proselytizing.

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#108) On February 09, 2010 at 12:15 PM, d4winds (< 20) wrote:

After you have proved by deeds your concern for those already born, you will have moral standing for lecturing about the unborn.

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#109) On February 09, 2010 at 12:22 PM, demoledor (< 20) wrote:

The problem in this discussion is GOD (and please let me continue)

Regardless weather he exists or not, and weather Christians, Jews, Muslims or whoever belief is the right one (or none of them), under the name of god, and under the belief of what he has taught people, everything can be justified.

Radical muslims kill people (luckily they are a few lost souls only), and in the middle ages Christians killed the indians in South America, and so on.

So at one point killing is OK for God, next minute it is not (abortion)

Let's face it, it is all in our own concept of "good and evil".

If you don't like abortion, that is respectable, but respect also those who believe a phaetus is not a person.

Anyway, this discussion will never end.

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#110) On February 09, 2010 at 12:22 PM, demoledor (< 20) wrote:

The problem in this discussion is GOD (and please let me continue)

Regardless weather he exists or not, and weather Christians, Jews, Muslims or whoever belief is the right one (or none of them), under the name of god, and under the belief of what he has taught people, everything can be justified.

Radical muslims kill people (luckily they are a few lost souls only), and in the middle ages Christians killed the indians in South America, and so on.

So at one point killing is OK for God, next minute it is not (abortion)

Let's face it, it is all in our own concept of "good and evil".

If you don't like abortion, that is respectable, but respect also those who believe a phaetus is not a person.

Anyway, this discussion will never end.

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#111) On February 09, 2010 at 1:15 PM, actuary99 (87.79) wrote:

Have you read the book "Freakonomics"? In the book the authors make a great argument that the legalization of abortion caused (not just correlated with) a dramatic reduction in US crime.

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#112) On February 09, 2010 at 5:43 PM, ifool100 (52.20) wrote:

I find it ironic that the vast majority of anti-abortionists were also the most enthusiastic followers of the campaign to bomb Iraq.  A campaign that resulted in the deaths of more than 1 million Iraqi citizens.

'Do not murder" is an easy black and white thing to say Bravo.  And I respectfully submit that you really don't have a clue, any more than I do, or the pregnant mother trying to decide what to do. 

God gave each of us the gift of free will.  We have a right to make our own choices, and nobody has a monopoly on righteousness.  You can thump the bible all you want.  It's been my experience that the one's who say they have it figured out are simply the one's who have stopped growing. 

It seems to me that you make wonderful contributions, using your talents to encourage others to find God.  Mark 16:15 is an obvious inspiration to you.

I think it's great that you believe every embryo should be born.  I also hope you are putting your money where your mouth is, adopting, contributing to the feeding, education and care of the thousands of unwanted children born every day. 

Jesus is my Lord too and I am no less enlightened than you in biblical studies.  However, I think it's best we stick to stocks here.

 

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#113) On February 09, 2010 at 5:53 PM, artistx (< 20) wrote:

That embryo is NOT a child. That's where you religious zealots fail to gain ground in your argument. Now back to what this forum is for, stocks not religious ideology.

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#114) On February 10, 2010 at 12:10 PM, craftmacaroni (89.06) wrote:

the number of abortions only includes those that are recorded. Naturally those recorded increase when it's legal. Women will get (unrecorded) abortions whether it's legal or not because there is no sure method of birth control. My great grandma, like many others of her cohort, did it with a coat hanger. Many died not so long ago because people wanted to criminalize what they did with their own bodies. There are lots of ways to interpret the bible. Some see it as written by God, some divinely inspired, and as metaphorical. Even if its the latter two, it  was written by men. And by men I mean men, literally. You have only to read the old testament and the torah to read the ignorant, superstitious, and prejudice statements about menstruation and women and their bodies in general, the blame placed on women for men straying, temptation etc. And men continue to use it to justify their own power over women with laws to control them. I think it's interesting that Mark Sanford, John Ensign, and David Vitter come from the C street Christian family whose concern with what women do with their bodies is only rivaled by their unconcern with what they do with their peckers. Their belief in their special relationship with Jesus ("Christ" to christians. Not to us Jews) gives them their profound sense of entitlement and superiority. God save us from those who feel they have special line to Him. 

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#115) On February 10, 2010 at 6:06 PM, CVMp (90.81) wrote:

I thought this was a stock board.

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#116) On February 10, 2010 at 6:25 PM, ElCid16 (96.80) wrote:

While the author of this blog post may have posted it with the best of interests, its people like this that truly fuel the fire for the crazies that end up going out and bombing an abortion clinic.

Kind of like Glenn Beck.  While he'd never actually do anything stupid enough to jeapordize his career, he fuels the fire for his crazy listeners.

Sorry to compare you to Glenn Beck.  I guess that was pretty low.

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#117) On February 13, 2010 at 7:04 PM, 4thDensity (99.71) wrote:

Coming back to CAPS after a multi-month hiatus, I was very surprised and a little disgusted to see a biblical quotation staring at me from the right-hand column of the screen.  Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.   My only interest in CAPS and the only reason I visit the site, is for stock picking and research.  Is that too much to ask?  Are people really so insecure in their beliefs that they have to use every opportunity to shove it in everyone's faces?   Get the religious drivel off the site! 

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#118) On February 14, 2010 at 1:22 AM, bmialone (57.58) wrote:

Posting a religious epistle on a financial investing site is not "standing up for one's beliefs." It is fanaticism.

A fanatic does not pursue his or her convictions in only relevant places and situations, but takes them Everywhere, including where they are inappropriate. The fanatic cannot control the compulsion to expound manically, seeking an audience anywhere and everywhere.

Also, BravoBrevo needs to do a better study of history. The post shows ignorance regarding Pagans versus Christians, who did what, where, why, and what was considered acceptable, even common place under necessary circumstances, by peoples all over the planet at one time or another; including Christians dating all the way back to the first Christologists/Christ followers.

Furthermore, not only did women throughout history, in all cultures, attempt to end pregnancies when they deemed it necessary, but birthing women and their female helpers used to end the life of a fully developed newborn baby when it was obvious there was something terribly wrong that would prevent the child from growing up to be self-sufficient. They quietly killed the newborn right then and there because humans felt they could not survive if everyone in their tribes/clans/villages did not fill some supportive role and attain physical self-sufficiency. Also, viewing babies and young children as vastly more important than adults is a modern phenomenon.

During the Nazi's reign of terror, there were women who smothered their own babies when they were unable to control them and keep them from giving away the hiding places of entire groups of people running for their very lives. Those women that managed to survive had to live with that grief to the end of their days, but they made, in the most horrible and traumatic circumstances, what they thought was the moral, ethical choice. Can we speak for God and say they committed some unspeakable sin?

We don't kill damaged babies in the western world anymore. In fact, we go to the opposite extreme now. Antichoice activists do not like women and doctors playing god when it comes to aborting embryos, but have no problem with society spending hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping babies alive through science, with many of them requiring special needs care their entire lives, which requires much more money than families can afford without the public's help. We even save babies born months too early and incapable of surviving outside the womb for months, keeping them alive in with machines and in sterile hospital environments for months after birth. Many of these babies have life-long disabilities (not all, but many). Aren't we playing god then? Why is one wrong and the other right?

We have technologies that inform many pregnant women in advance of birth that something is very wrong with their fetuses. So what about women who know in advance that their babies will die at birth? Or women who know their babies wills be born severely mentally damaged, or without spines, or that die in utero weeks before the expected due date, or a myriad of other things that sometimes go wrong? Is it our right to interfere in their decision to prevent future suffering for a child, and to end their own suffering sooner?

Shall we just expect all women to do what self-described good christian Sarah Palin did?  Knowing she was pregnant with a Downs Syndrome baby; knowing that such children are more medically fragile at birth and, therefore, need special care; and knowing she was in her 40s so there was even more potential for something to go wrong for her baby at birth, After her water broke (which is when excited mothers-to-be make a beeline to the hospital, as they are supposed to once that fluid protection is gone) she climbed on a plane in Texas, kept that she was in labor secret from the airline personnel so they wouldn't prevent her flying, and spent the Entire day, well into the night, getting all the way back to Alaska. The reason she gave for putting her baby at such risk?  Her baby just Had to be born in Alaska!

See the position a person is in when she must never waver from abolute beliefs no matter what else it means to her own life and to her already fully developed, out of the womb children? See what she  might do? It doesn't take a genius to see that women will do more than just use coat hangers and throw themselves down stairs.

This issue is very complex and personal. In a free nation it is none of our business how a couple or a woman decide to deal with it. It is inhumane to force women into the position of feeling driven to hurt themselves, and if that doesn't work, then hurt or put at risk a fully developed baby in order to avoid giving birth to a child she cannot care for, or that really should not be born at that time to that woman because the child will never be able to grow up and be self-sufficient, not even after the parents are dead and gone. It is inhumane to the mother, the potential child, and even to fathers and siblings if it is a situation that family cannot handle or they just do not believe is right. That's why it shouldn't be our business to interfere early on.

As for God, the Christian belief is that the relationship is between the individual and God, and judgement is between them alone also. The bible also teaches that one who, through his or her own behavior, in some way frightens others away from being open to the message, have caused those others to stumble in their chance for faith. The scripture says that those who do cause others to stumble will not make it into the kingdom of heaven either. 

These kind of intrusive tirades frighten, repel, and turn others away from the message Christ taught, which makes those who spout them stumbling blocks who will not be seeing that kingdom of heaven so hoped for. I guess BravoBevo will be seeing a lot of us in hell when he gets there.

I've epistled back, and now I hope to find posts Only about investing, because like 4thDensity, I resent logging on to find preaching glaring at me from my computer. If I want preaching, I'll go to church. And this isn't a free speech issue because this is a privately owned site with a specific purpose. Freedom of speech applies to the government preventing individuals from voicing our views; not private businesses keeping divisive behaviors from hurting their bottom line, and not consumers taking our business elsewhere if we so choose even if only because we do not like what we find here.

 

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#119) On February 14, 2010 at 12:00 PM, studiodreamer (< 20) wrote:

This topic is extremely relevant to finance and politics.  It is tied to morality, which has certainly become headline news in how wall st. and banking is currently being bashed about.

Abortion, is not unlike euthanasia.  Do you not think that is coming in to play?  What will an immoral culture do when governments have no money to support those it promised to support?  Will it not dispose of them, for it's own survival?

Abortion is EXTREMELY RELEVANT to the current economic crisis we face.

As is morality.

 

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#120) On February 14, 2010 at 2:30 PM, caidencollett07 (29.04) wrote:

Brought the crime rate down, haha read freakonomics.

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#121) On February 14, 2010 at 8:17 PM, farmnut1985 (< 20) wrote:

Everyone posting on here whether Christian or not should be thankful that they have been given a chance at life, think a little, what if you had been aborted?  And about bravo having religious quotes, if it was anything but the Bible you wouldn't care less what was there, get over it, you don't like it don't read it, know is forcing you too.

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#122) On February 15, 2010 at 2:02 AM, SockMarket (35.88) wrote:

this is absolutly brilliant considering our overpopulation. You really know how to solve a problem, bravo!

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#123) On February 15, 2010 at 2:01 PM, hyssop4him (< 20) wrote:

Those who are on the side of truth hear my voice...says Jesus Christ our Lord.  This CAPS community is so bizarre, half of the folks posting cannot even spell.  But to see such anger, ridicule, and disdain for God's truth is frightening.  Bravo's posting was a testimony to truth, the only truth that matters.  We are entitled to our opposing thoughts and opinions, yet one day it will be revealed...either Jesus is who he said he was or he was a lunatic.  There is no in between ground.  As for me I am with Bravo, a believer in the ultimate truth, Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life"  God is the Creator and giver of life.  Abortion contributes to a culture of death, a narcissitic society obsessed with what is right for "me" and ultimate rebellion against God.  This is nothing new, examples of our sinful nature are evidenced throughout the Bible and history.  The only hope we have as human beings is through Jesus.   

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#124) On February 15, 2010 at 3:36 PM, StKitt (29.72) wrote:

I dreamed I stood upon a hill, and lo!

The godly multitudes walked to and fro

Beneath, in Sabbath garments fitly clad,

With pious men, appropriately sad,

While all the church bells made a solemn din --

A fire-alarm to those who lived in sin.

Then saw I gazing thoughtfully below,

With tranquil face, upon that holy show

A tall, spare figure in a robe of white,

Whose eyes diffused in melancholy light.

"God keep you, stranger," I exclaimed. "You are

No doubt (your habit shows it) from afar;

And yet I entertain the hope that you,

Like these good people, are a Christian too."

He raised his eyes and with a look so stern

It made me with a thousand blushes burn

Replied -- his manner with disdain was spiced:

"What! I a Christian? No, indeed! I'm Christ."

~ G. J.

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#125) On February 16, 2010 at 2:34 AM, SkinneeJ (28.41) wrote:

What if you think that you can afford to have kids, but then after you realize how much a 2 year old's clothing costs, can you "abort" them at that point?  What if you decided that you really shouldn't have been a parent in the first place?  Can you just take your 2 year old into an abortion clinic and have him "taken care of"?

50 years ago, if a baby was born premature, then they pretty much had no chance of living...  Does that mean that baby was never "alive" just because it hadn't been delivered?

Nowadays, they can take a baby from the womb after 5 months and put it in an incubator and the baby has a decent chance of survival.  At what point was that baby considered a "life"?

With modern technology doubling every year, it's only a matter of time before baby's can be birthed in just about any month of pregnancy.  What happens if technology get's to the point where a baby can be removed from a mother's womb 1 month after conception?  Would it be considered a life then?

So then, where do you draw the line on what is killing a life and not killing a life?

 

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#126) On February 16, 2010 at 8:50 AM, jer101010 (< 20) wrote:

     I thought this was an investment group, not a religuous rant group. Since you asked, let me point out that god (all of them)and those that follow him, in all his forms, names and fantasies have been responsible for more death, suffering, pain and agony than any diesease, plague or Supreme Court decisions.

      The crusaders, a lovely bunch of murders and rogues were Christians and fought in the name of Jesus; the Muslims whom they opposed fought in the name of Allah, Jews fought for Yaweh, Romans fought  for Jupiter, Greeks fought for Zeus.  WWII German soldiers had "In Gott mit Trust enscribed on belt buckles.  Pope Pius backed the Nazis, the Archbishop of Canterbury ignored the Holocost.  In the past 20 years The entire Christian world routinely ignored torture, rape and suffering.  God certainly didn't help.

      It seems to me that the most pacifist, humane and christian (notice the lower case) gtroup are the athesits and agnostics.  They haven't invaded any countries, killed any other religuous group because they were religuous.

     In my opinion your biased, unsupported and antagonist views and those that "think" like you are responsible for more trouble, death, disasters, pain and suFfering than can be imagined.  Who is the devil?  Righest Christias and Jews Muslims?  Fanatic Muslims who kill Cristians?  Nazis (Christians, not atheists) who killed millions, Idi Amin?  If the bomber who kill himself and other's for Allah is evil, what are the Christians and Jews who do the same to them?

     The world is full of graves dug and filled by those who followed the true god.  For me, no thanks.  

     By the way, who told you you have the right god and the right interpretation of his word?  Remember hearing god is a classic symptom of insanity.

      Finally, I can only assume, given your apparent christianity, that you worl support financial aid, free medical care and quality education for the all those lives you would save vy banning abortion.  Remember 60 - 70% of abortions are performed because the parent(s) would simply be unable to support the child.  Or maybe you want to reopen the Magdalena Schools?  Orphanages?

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#127) On February 16, 2010 at 11:52 AM, andcheese (< 20) wrote:

The easiest reaction to Bravo Bevo's comments is to write it off for any of the commonly accepted reasons: crazy, religious zealot, right wing, conservative, maybe even southern :)  But, the much harder task is to evaluate the merits of his words against what may be objective truth.  This debade doesnt start with things like abortion, rather it is totally secondary to the issue regarding the existence of God.  Not that this is where a truly educated debate on this subject should take place.  If you're too lazy to go throught he hard work of seeking out the existence of God because of what you may or may not have seen in other humans than nobody should care what you think about abortion.  Here are my Actions now that we've opened the door for this:

ACTION: If you like lively debate on all topics of CAPS interest, keep reading.  If you dont, click the little red X at the top of the screen.  If you're still here and havent totally resolved in your mind how God may view you, than I'd suggest doing some good reading in areas other than CAPS blogs!  I like Frances Schaffer to start.

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#128) On February 16, 2010 at 12:39 PM, DavidSobel (< 20) wrote:

Bevo,  after reading the responses I feel like I was back on the mission field.  As a completed Jew with Jesus as my savior and covered by the blood of the Lamb my view of the greatness of a LOVING GOD grows deeper every day.  I live in San Antonio and you are welcome for lunch anytime.

As a Buckeye I hope to be able to welcome you into the Big 10 Conference  if that is what happens in the next year or two .

 

As a brother in Christ we will be spending forever getting to know eachother.

 

In our savior's service,

David Sobel

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#129) On February 17, 2010 at 11:52 AM, biotechmgr (34.52) wrote:

Meanwhile the impoverished suffer under the weight of their excess children, and the environment suffers under the weight of runaway population growth. I wonder which is the greater evil?

If people like you were actually willing to have a discussion about this, maybe we could arrive at real world solutions to these problems.

 

 

 

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#130) On February 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, NotMyRealName123 (30.60) wrote:

First you can legislate morality.  Murder is outlawed, because it's deemed to be a good law.  Why?  Maybe because there are more potential victims than murderers, and most murderers don't vote.

Abortion is not outlawed because. . .. the people being slain can't speak up for themselves.  They're too young to vote.  Those aborting them do vote.

If Christian voters ever outnumber the abortionists, sluts, and "dead beat don't wanna be a Dads", maybe things will change.

Until then may you never be denied life, liberty, or the pursuit of the next hot stock tip.

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#131) On February 17, 2010 at 4:51 PM, worfratt (69.94) wrote:

Blah, blah, blah, blah ,blah! Who cares?! Stick to posting stock comments and leave all tht political and religious crap off the post.

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#132) On February 17, 2010 at 7:09 PM, mliesenf (57.27) wrote:

#26) On January 24, 2010 at 4:10 PM, BravoBevo (100.00) wrote:

" Because only God has the power to give life, therefore only God has the right to take life."

Man already does create new living organisms of man's own free will. However, not all life contains a soul. Only God can gift life a soul. Give the glory to God, please reconsider your deductive logic.

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#133) On February 18, 2010 at 10:26 AM, ForstGump (< 20) wrote:

This is soooo painful. Can we take a deep breath and step back from the abyss?Are maybe we forgetting that an important guideline for the argument/debate here is about valuing religious freedom and not forcing our religious beliefs on others? Imagine a world where atheists or the Church of Scientology (no slight intended to either) were constantly wanting to force their religious beliefs on you in every public debate and law. Imagine the arrogance of such a situation and society.There are immense issues to be debated here, but religion should not be the basis or central focus of the discussion. The truth should be obvious to all in terms of human values and principles regardless of their religious beliefs. Once you cross the line the debate becomes immensely oppressive divisive, arrogant, hurtful and ultimately dangerous. I can assure you that you don't have to be a religious person to understand and be sensitive to this very difficult issue.

 

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#134) On February 18, 2010 at 11:20 AM, cjlim22m (< 20) wrote:

Bravo,

 Love to see you use this opportunity to post. I pray you remain number one in CAPS so many more can read your posts.

 Eternity matters, and you share what matters most... The ultimate secret of the universe revealed - Jesus Christ, whom we can have eternal relationship with Him.

 Investing/trading... bah it's just a hobby. My body will fade away and all my investment gains will stay in this world to be handled by people I trust and continue to put the money to Kingdom use...

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#135) On February 18, 2010 at 5:41 PM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

"What if you had been aborted?"

You asked.  But I damn well bet that you won't listen.

I spent my first 3 years of life in a perpetual state of fear.  A 2 or 3 year old kid receives a lasting impression from a home where doors dangle by one hinge because his mother was repeatedly flung across the room and smashed into them.  My door had a jagged hole in it just low enough for me to climb on my bed and see if it was safe to come out.  I woke my father up once when he was sleeping because I touched the radiator that heated our home and burnt my hand.  He held my hand on the radiator while I screamed in agony and tried to pull away.  I was two.  Do I remember?  What do you think?  Then he beat me for screaming and thrust me into my room, smashing the door shut with his fist.  That's when he punched the hole in my door.  After the blisters healed I never went near the radiator again. 

I woke early on my third birthday.  The house was quiet....

Quiet was not having to hear Mom begging my father to stop hitting her.

Quiet was not having to hear the horrible, meaty-sounding impact of his fists. 

I went out into the living room, tiptoing and being very...very...careful to not make a sound.   At three, I knew to make damn sure the sound was turned all the way down before I turned the TV on.  I sat in the floor, the TV so low I couldn't hear it from more than a foot or two away, and basked in the luxurious quiet, wishing my father would never, ever, wake up.

I can close my eyes and remember the morning of my third birthday like it was yesterday.  I turn 53 in April. 

Mom tried to run away from him one winter.  As she was running from him, carrying me, I watched over her shoulder as he came out of the house, raised his arm, and fired a pistol at us.  I was too little to be afraid of the sound of the bullet whizzing by at close range, untill I heard her tortured voice, shaky and crying, "Oh my God, he's shooting at us."  This was before my third birthday, but those words and that scene were frozen in my mind forever.  If I close my eyes...I can still see him...slipping in the snow and waving that gun.

Mom ran.  Apparently, after she got away, my father put the gun away and called the police to report a runaway minor.  She had married my father when she was thirteen and she was fourteen when I was born.  Later the police caught us and took us back home.  Women often married young in those days in Missouri, but not in Chicago.  Back then there were no shelters for battered women.  She told them about his shooting at us but they pulled up to the curb in front of our house, escorted her up the steps, and knocked on the door.  I vividly remember crying over and over, "Mommy, I don't want to go home."  She was helpless to do anything other than keep saying, "I know, honey, I know."   Her eyes were red and swollen, and she was shaking hard all over as she held me.  I know now that she was sixteen years old.  Where were Chicago's Finest when my father was trying to shoot us?   I don't remember when we finally got away for good.  I was between three and four years old.   We never saw my father again.  He just disappeared into the bottomless past, swallowed up by time, leaving only vivid memories that have slowly taken on the mystical quality of a bad dream from long ago. 

I won't go into any more detail about the remainder of my youth spent with a stepfather who hated me.  Part of the picture is enough.

Those of you who dare think you have the right to decide that children should be born into a life of hell because you think it's better than never being born have no right to your opinion.  Not as far as I'm concerned.  Life is pretty good for me right now.  The last five or ten years of my 52 years on this planet have been pretty nice.  I was such an exreme introvert for all the rest of it that my only and best fiends were always books.  Might explain why I was able to read at four years old. 

SO.....My....opinion?  Hell no, it's not an opinion.  I can give an absolute and positive answer to your question.  Just because the last five or ten years have finally felt good if given the choice would I go through all that went before again just to get to  "now?"  

NO!  NO!   NO!  NO!  NO!  NO!

All of you people who think children should be born no matter what kind of hell they're being born into have no damn right to your opinion if you came from some fairy-tale-like family where you were nurtered...loved...encouraged....You have no clue what you're talking about and NO RIGHT to your  opinion.

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#136) On February 18, 2010 at 6:55 PM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

Abortion doctors risk their lives knowing some fanatic might kill them tomorrow.   While people like you, Bravobevo, fan the flames and throw fuel on the fire.   And while people like me think they should get a medal.   They're the heroes...

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#137) On February 18, 2010 at 7:07 PM, stan8331 (69.97) wrote:

This is where the rub always comes. 

 As far as your blurb on the top fool thing goes, I'll support your right to put whatever you like up there, so long as it doesn't entail any of the stuff listed in today's disclaimer.  

However, when it comes to enforcing your opinions on the rest of the populace, we part ways.  Using religion as a means of controlling the lives of others who hold different beliefs is a common practice around the world.  As far as I'm concerned that practice is a debasement of the faith it purports to exalt.  

People who claim to speak for God are a dime a dozen.  They have been responsible for many of the world's great atrocities since the dawn of civilization.  I do not cede you the right to decide how I will live my life, or how anyone else will live theirs.

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#138) On February 19, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Kegler837 (< 20) wrote:

God didn't create man. Man created god.

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#139) On February 19, 2010 at 2:57 PM, tgarci2 (53.26) wrote:

So what if Bravo posted his beliefs, the guy is the Top Fool and as such garners a lot of attention in this group.  The most influential people are those who climb to the top of something and use it to their advantage.  In this instance BB isn't even trying to advance any position, he is simply and maturely (for as "smart" as some of you people claim to be, if you want to disagree with someone and affect any influence in their decisions, avoiding peaceful mature debate is never they way to do so) stating a fact that has a great deal of truth to it.

 I'm not super religious, in fact I have moved away from religion a decent amount in the past few years, but truth is truth, and murder is murder.  Claiming that a baby is simply "a cluster of cells" is foolish.  Will that cluster of cells ever become something beside a human child?  Giving validity to that arguement is like saying an acorn won't become an oak tree...if you destroy the seed, you are destroying the child.  And for those who suggest that "contraception is a form of abortion"...yes, I think it is as it prevents the procreative design

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#140) On February 19, 2010 at 3:37 PM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

I, too, simply "stated facts"  just above.  Apparently facts that nobody wants to hear.   I suppose you think what I wrote just above is a work of fiction?   How about the "fact"  that the 3-year-old boy's images of the poor, battered, bruised, and beaten 16-year-old girl that I will carry with me forever will haunt me all my life.  That was my mother.  She never drank or did drugs, either...she was guilty only of growing up in a poor home with a drunk for a father and wanting to believe she'd met a nice man who would take her away and be good to her.   You know nothing.   Even the most deeply felt arguments of one of those you would have "saved"  fall on deaf ears. Saved from what, you twits?  A peaceful nonexistence?   Not that she would have had an abortion.  Which is a shame.  Because without me,  maybe she could have escaped that monster sooner.   You people have strong feelings about that which your own lives and your own experiences render you absolutely incapable of seeing both sides of.  And you want to force your views on others. 

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#141) On February 19, 2010 at 8:11 PM, andcheese (< 20) wrote:

It looks like TMF has caved under the weight of the CAPS community and fully censored BravoBevo's Top Fool comments.  That's unfortunate..... he's earned the right to express whatever he wants and if any of his comments were "disruptive, uncivil, abusive, vulgar, profane, obscene, hateful, fraudulent, threatening, harassing, defamatory, or which discloses private or personal matters concerning you" than I clearly define these terms much more liberally than does TMF.  For those who'll stay with CAPS, I hope you raise your glasses to the evolving censorship here, cause it's a slippery slope.

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#142) On February 19, 2010 at 8:24 PM, DavidSobel (< 20) wrote:

You know I am sorry that some of you that post think that because we believe in an All Powerfull God, that we have made a personal comitmitment to and we share that experience somehow makes us better than anyone "Well It Does Not".  What it does do is compel us show compassion.  Well SHOW is an action verb and not like good old Vana and hold our hands out like she does to point out letters or stock symbols as the case may be BUT it is to SHOW by doing.  You know my life has not always been easy or cushy by most peoples standards.  I was poor and broke and lost and not the kind of person that I should have been but at age 20 I made changes that has brought me to where I am today.  I never looked back. Now, I sit in my home office and type and look at paintings by Rembrandt and Chagal and Dali.  I have season tickets to the Spurs.  Before you say OH you have it all I asure you that you do not want what is on my plate.  I have rescued three of my grandchildren from the insanity that was their life and they lived with me for three years and brought them from filth and insanity to peace and High fiving the Spurs on the floor of the ATT Center.  Now I have a new grandson new born and so sick we do not know when he will come home from the hospital (different parents) but I can tell you this I do not blame God for any of it.  A wise man once said that if we all put our troubles in a  basket we would go through and pick out our own so fast.  Please have some grace in our posts , the definition of grace if unmerrited favor. Please!

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#143) On February 19, 2010 at 9:30 PM, truthisntstupid (93.32) wrote:

Excuse me.  My last three posts contained no mention of  "god."   A question was asked.  I had an answer.  That is all.

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#144) On February 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, CubsBearsBulls43 (96.87) wrote:

Not sure why someone would post their personal beliefs here other than they think their rating assures them of getting read.

I realize that the investor community probably skews to the right, but is an anti-abortion rant really what we all want to be reading here?

Please let me know if MF becomes a forum for EVERYTHING so I can start my rant for Animal Rights!

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#145) On February 22, 2010 at 3:42 PM, senorbum (< 20) wrote:

For one, where did you get this average cost from? 

For two, why do you think your god (who is naturally a male, due to the extreme sexism during biblical times.  Sexism itself seems very un-godlike, yet there it is) is correct and therefor has any impact whatsoever on this conversation?  There could be an entire conversation of the ridiculousness of basing arguments off of religious beliefs, but thats a seperate issue.

For three, l2blogspot about non investment advice.   This is an investment community.

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#146) On February 23, 2010 at 11:28 AM, tgarci2 (53.26) wrote:

@truthisntstupid

 Are you saying the world would be a better place without you in it?  I don't pretend to understand circumstances I haven't ever experienced, and I am in no way disregarding the painful and extremely unfortunate surroundings in which you were brought up, but I don't agree with that.

The views I hold are ones that make sense in a perfect world...they aim for perfection and have good intentions.  Sadly, the world is not a perfect place and even the best of intentions can get twisted and manipulated into evil.  The idea that abortion is wrong is strictly understood on the basis that all life is meaningful, in a perfect world that would equate to every human living as God (or whoever you want to credit for creation) intended...Where the basic instincts of little children who haven't been poisoned by the world are more interested in protecting, helping, and being kind to others, are seen in everyone.  I don't know why bad things happen, and I don't know why some are placed in miserable situations, but I've seen every human shine during at least one miserable point in their life and it makes me think that everyone is created to do good. 

 I understand that your experiences in life have created the perspective you now hold and I respect that those experiences may be much more than I may ever see. But directing "You know nothing" at me is not quite true. I have worked with battered children through my church, I volunteer with a group that helps counter human trafficking, and I have seen the horrors that some children go through...A lot of those kids escape the abuse and end up leading outstanding lives.  

My point, lost somewhere in there, is that no situation makes it ok to assume that the child is going to end up lonely, miserable, a failure, etc..

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#147) On February 26, 2010 at 8:27 AM, kirkydu (92.30) wrote:

Given that there is a pretty good relative chance that there is no higher being, maybe we should just play nice and be productive in our own ways as that will lead to less fighting and a higher standard of living for all.  If there is a higher being, he or she or it will be ok with that I'm guessing if that higher being is nice, although given the state of the universe and world, I think that's open for debate too.

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#148) On February 26, 2010 at 2:02 PM, allied35 (< 20) wrote:

When I was a kid, I used to have an imaginary friend.

I thought he went everywhere with me.

I could talk to him and he could hear me, and he could grant me wishes and stuff too.

But then I grew up, and stopped believing in god.

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#149) On March 04, 2010 at 10:43 AM, KickBackAt40 (82.92) wrote:

I just love it when somebody shoves their religion in my face and tells me how misguided I and my fellow thinkers are. I wouldn't feel any less disdain than if they stripped down naked and then proceeded to dance about in front of me while flapping their arms and clucking like a chicken.

According to rough estimates, there are 4,200 different religions in the world. However, even if you consider that there are only 12 major religions ... then 11 out of 12 people have got to be wrong about their beliefs.  Therefore, to avoid looking like a fool in the afterlife, I think everybody should keep their mouth shut about religion, believe what they want to believe, and follow the laws of the societies in which you live.

Personally, I believe you can live your life according to one basic moral rule - "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!" This Golden Rule is included, with slightly different wording, in at least 21 different religions. Where religions go astray is when they think this rule applies only to their believers and not to all of humanity. 

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#150) On March 18, 2010 at 2:28 PM, golfer121501 (21.58) wrote:

BravoBevo,

Thank you having the guts to say what you think in spite of those who want to pretend that God and investing/finances are unrelated.

You are an inspiration to me and those who love Jesus.

 

For those who keep griping about God being in a investing forum:

Why are you reading what he has to say?  No one is forcing you. 

I find it comical that the haters spend the time to read and complain.  If you don't want to hear it, dont read it!

For those blaming MF for the post: This is a one person's blog, it was not posted as an article written by MF staff.  Last time I checked the First Amendment still existed (for now).

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#151) On March 18, 2010 at 2:42 PM, DJDynamicNC (< 20) wrote:

*sigh*

I'm pro-life, and these religious nuts drive me crazy. You're destroying our side's credibility.

"Abortion is bad because the invisible sky man said so" is a terrible argument.


There are excellent, legitimate, scientific arguments to be made that would be much more effective, not to mention legal (state religion is a no-no, despite what Texas would have you believe). And those of us making them are drowned out by the crazies praying to Jeezus - and then shooting abortion doctors.

Be pro-life. Be proud of it, even. But leave God - whichever one of the thousands you think is the real one - in your churches where He belongs.

 

 

Just out of curiousity - what exactly should the punishment be for women who get an abortion, if abortion were illegal?

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#152) On March 18, 2010 at 2:44 PM, DJDynamicNC (< 20) wrote:

Oh, and let's define pro-life, while we're at it.

 I believe that human life is precious and worth defending. That means I'm opposed to abortion - life clearly and scientifically begins at conception. It means I'm against the death penalty and wars of choice - if killing is wrong, it's ALWAYS wrong (this goes for the sickos who would shoot abortion doctors, too). And it means I'm for contraception - if abortion is the problem, contraception is nearly always the right solution.

 If you're not advocating those three stances, you're not pro-life. Bottom line.

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#153) On April 28, 2010 at 10:46 PM, mojo2010 (< 20) wrote:

I'm getting a sense of how this works...first, you milk the world for all the cash you get your hands on, and then maybe you wonder - "what's it all about?" and "there must be a deeper meaning..." and because money and stuff really doesn't fill the void of being a stupid person of limited insight you decide: hey, why not God?  What would GOD think?  What would God do?  And becasue you live in the U.S.A you go with the mainstream, big-box variety, which happens to be very big on "issues" like - the bible, and abortion, and what-not.  And because your life is empty and meaningless, probably because of your preoccupation with money, and because of not being very well educated or informed - you begin to propogate your "blog" - ostensibly in relation to matters of finance, with the "big issues" that you believe will give your life meaning and direction.  All I can say, is that this is really - pathetic.  I came here seeking information and knowledge from what I thought were intelligent and well informed individuals - what I see evidence (as if I needed more) - that money can't buy intelligence.  This blog entry is so inane I can't even bother responding to the content of it.  Not because of it's position on abortion, per se, but "God"?  the "bible"?  Come on!  What is this?  Where am I?  It's absurd. What's next?  An astrological forecast?  Throwing bones?  

So long fools.

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#154) On June 11, 2010 at 4:02 PM, tquill (29.33) wrote:

DJDynamic:

What's a war of choice?

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#155) On September 17, 2010 at 2:42 PM, lamborghini222 (< 20) wrote:

Yo Bravo:

       Keep posting. I totally agree that abortion is wrong and a sin. Continue obeying God. James 1:12. 

                      Peace

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#156) On September 23, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Mary953 (79.07) wrote:

I see that instead of a post praising God, there is a post now about abortion.  Since I eventually weigh in on most "God and religion" posts, I am adding my own two cents here.

I am not in favor of the government making laws in favor of or against abortion.  The government has a habit of making laws that sound good but then end up creating nightmares of bureaucratic red tape.  This cannot do anything except make a difficult situation worse.

As to whether I am for abortion, for myself, I am not.  My children were precious gifts from God and all I ever really wanted to do was to be a wife and mother with a family that loved me.  God granted that request and blessed me beyond my wildest dreams.

Until I can say that I am a child rape victim, or incest victim, or perhaps find myself carrying a child with severe deformities or one that threatens my life, then I cannot judge someone else.  I have not stood in the shoes of any girl or woman that has made this choice. I would not presume to condemn a young woman caught in a frightening situation with no idea of what to do.  Nor can I judge them.

What I can do is to remind yet again of one thing.  NO ONE is perfect.  Not a single one of us gets through an hour of waking time without sinning or doing something that may set off a chain reaction of problems.  God chooses to show us mercy because He loves us.  God's love is not reserved to one group of people.  It is not to be claimed by only the (self) righteous - and once you try to become righteous in the eyes of the Lord, self-righteous is only a blink away.  God does not require that we call Him or Her by a specific name, worship in a specific way, in fact,  WE do most of the rule making where God is concerned and then we call it religion.

Forgive each other and yourselves.  Allow God to show you mercy, love, comfort, and forgiveness.  I am not without sin.  I cannot cast any stones.  I can only weep for the children who need protection and love, but do not have it.

May God's richest blessings be upon you and your loved ones - no matter what name you use when you call on Her/Him.

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#157) On September 23, 2010 at 9:59 PM, EnigmaDude (83.32) wrote:

Very nice, Mary.

Shame on you BB for posting a personal view of a highly charged subject that has nothing to with investing on an investing web site. And on my birthday, no less!

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