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This is a re-post of a comment on Atleus' blog



April 23, 2008 – Comments (10)

(Someone mentioned something about healthcare being a fundamental human right.)

How is healthcare a fundamental human right? I am aware that that sounds really good, but answer a few questions for me. Aren't the processes of medical discovery, medical device manufacture, and medical treatment the results of human effort? If you and I have the fundamental right to benefit from their labor, do they have any fundamental human rights? Do you ever stop to think about what the words "fundamental" and "rights" mean?

10 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On April 23, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Atleus (< 20) wrote:

This may answer some of your questions in a roundabout way (and raise others):

I'll take a whack at your question directly, though.  Progressives are trying to build Rawl's vision of a kingdom of God on Earth - and in this kingdom, everyone is guarenteed by good ol' Uncle Sam a life that is good and sweet and true on the merits of "fairness" and "equality".  That is what is meant by "fundamental right" when progressives say it - the right to equal outcomes on the basis of a fully managed society.

Of course, that's not the way you and I see it. 

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#2) On April 23, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Imperial1964 (95.59) wrote:

I wish I could Rec that several times.

Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for people who can't afford expensive healthcare.  I have several friends who can't afford to pay their medical bills.

But those who can work but won't are leaches and still have their right to freedom.  But not the right to make others provide for their food, shelter, healthcare, etc.

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#3) On April 23, 2008 at 9:21 PM, abitare (29.90) wrote:

Dr Paul  spoke on this, I will share his view:

This is part one of a three part series:


If you think socialized medicine is a good idea. Go to Europe and look at the rotten and crooked teeth of people. The less regulation from the government the better, with very few exceptions. The medical lobby is corrupting the system. But in large part, the US has a decent system.

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#4) On April 24, 2008 at 12:03 AM, 292972826 wrote:

As a European, i can assure you abitarecatania probably never travel to Europe, or he will not write such idiocy. I lived in the US for quiet some times so i have tried both health care system...

I can assure you that my teeth were very good before leaving, free care, while now i have to pay a huge amount of money for care not closed to be as good....

Abitarecatania if you don't have a passport you can always watch frontline to learn about European health care system... 


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#5) On April 24, 2008 at 1:12 AM, FleaBagger (27.32) wrote:

Abit -

As much as I hate to agree with some European socialist, Slycal is expressing what I have heard from the respective citizens about healthcare in Europe, Iran, Peru, and others.

Lest someone again take my comments out of context, I am not endorsing any government involvement in healthcare. I am just saying to be careful to be accurate when you attack liberty-sucking, socialist, loony-bin policies in Bambi-totalitarian countries.

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#6) On April 24, 2008 at 1:54 AM, FleaBagger (27.32) wrote:

Atleus -

That was a very enjoyable read. I had not realized that atheists could be libertarians, though I have long thought that the only reasonable political view of an atheist, besides seeking power for oneself, of course. 

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#7) On April 24, 2008 at 2:12 AM, Atleus (< 20) wrote:

Flea: I'm glad you enjoyed it.  There's a lot of mind blowing stuf on that site if you look around, although it's hard for some people (not me) to read because it's a bit meandering.

 By the way - Mencius is certainly an atheist, but he is not a libertarian.  He's a formalist (confused?  it's a definition he made up, of course )  Here's his post on it: 

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#8) On April 24, 2008 at 9:13 AM, TMFRik (99.77) wrote:

The civilized nations of the world have determined that health care is a fundamental right, that's who. "Fundamental" and "right" mean we're living in a society and that you have obligations to other people.

See the International Covenant on Economic, Social & Cultural Rights ("the right of everyone to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health")

 Committee on Economic, Social & Cultural Rights: General Comment 14: The Right to the Highest Attainable Standard of Health (Article 12)

Constitution of the World Health Organization ("The enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of health is one of the fundamental rights of every human being")

and of course, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights -- where you've got that and a whole lot more coming your way: "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control"

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#9) On April 24, 2008 at 1:46 PM, FleaBagger (27.32) wrote:

So, Rik, just kick back, relax, and everything will be taken care of for you, because it's your right to enjoy health and prosperity. (It must be true, and not extremely silly, because international supragovernmental bodies have decreed it.)

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#10) On April 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, FleaBagger (27.32) wrote:

Rik -

I almost forgot to mention that you did not answer my questions, except to say that "right" means everyone is obligated to do what the enlightened class thinks is right. In other words, you don't believe anyone has the right to do what they want or to own property, but that we all have the right to have things we can't make for ourselves, as long as an electoral majority can make other people make them for us.

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