getrichdietrying (79.30)

50 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On March 23, 2010 at 2:56 PM, RonChapmanJr (98.51) wrote:

-1 rec

 

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#2) On March 23, 2010 at 3:07 PM, chk999 (99.98) wrote:

Health care isn't free. Who will pay for expanded health care?

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#3) On March 23, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Momentum21 (98.18) wrote:

The passing of the healthcare bill by the Democrats is not much different then the declaration of war on Iraq by the Republicans. It is all too often politically expedient to force an issue through at the time when we are least prepared to be successful.

Our system is one of the best going but when the truth becomes obstructed for political gain we all need to sit up and pay attention.

Everyone can agree that something needs to be done about our healthcare system (just like everyone could agree that Saddam and Irag needed to be addressed) but the way this plan was sold bothers me profoundly.

I am not your typically fox news watcher.  

 

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#4) On March 23, 2010 at 3:53 PM, tjensen3618 (96.62) wrote:

I'm 26, is there any motivation left for me to want to work hard, and achieve great things.

I have a friend who washes dishes at a restaurant- he has subsidized housing and lives in a comprable apartment 

I have a friend who washes dishes at a restaurant- he gets food stamps and can afford better groceries than I

I have a friend who washes dishes at a restaurant- he will receive free health care while my premium will likely rise to cover his cost.

Should I quit my job and wash dishes? 

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#5) On March 23, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Turfscape (41.28) wrote:

chk999 wrote:
"Health care isn't free. Who will pay for expanded health care?"

The same people who pay for the roads.

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#6) On March 23, 2010 at 4:00 PM, chk999 (99.98) wrote:

Turfscape - roads are mostly financed out of gasoline taxes, so the ones who use them pay for them. How is this comparable to expanding health care to people who can't afford it?

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#7) On March 23, 2010 at 4:02 PM, blake303 (29.88) wrote:

tjensen3618 - Imaginary friends can be anything you wish them to be, not just dishwashers. 

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#8) On March 23, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Schmacko (92.75) wrote:

"Should I quit my job and wash dishes? "

Have you ever washed dishes at a restaurant/mess hall/eating establishment?  It's mind numbingly boring work.  I would think the incentive to not do that is that the job sucks and can't possibly be the way most people want to spend their lives.  I mean it's honest labor and if that's all you can get, then by all means wash away.  But aim higher.

Increasing healthcare coverage to more people who want it but can't get it is a good thing.  My only worry about the bill is the provision that requires people to buy insurance.  There's some subsidies built in but nothing really to guarantee that the insurance people are required to buy is actually affordable.  Especially since the quick summaries of the bill I've seen says it does little to address the main problem of ballooning health care costs.

I'll also be interested to see how the lawsuits by all the states' attorney generals play out.  Again I'm all for incresing health care coverage, but I do tend to agree that the federal government requiring you to buy something... seems wrong on some level.

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#9) On March 23, 2010 at 4:19 PM, GoHorns12 (36.60) wrote:

People should be responsible for themselves.  I don't see why this idea of piggy backing is now acceptable.  What happened to accountability?  While there are some exceptions, many of the people who can't afford health insurance are in that situation because they made bad choices in the past.  You dropped out of high school because of a drug addiction?  I'm sorry but that doesn't give you the right to take anything out of my paycheck to pay for your mistakes.

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#10) On March 23, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Turfscape (41.28) wrote:

chk999 wrote:
"roads are mostly financed out of gasoline taxes, so the ones who use them pay for them."

Fallacy. In Wisconsin, local roads and highways are 68% funded by NON-user fees (property taxes, etc.). Total roads and highways in Wisconsin is 40% funded by NON-user fees.

So...how is this comparable to expanding health care to people who can't afford it? Well, taxes are collected and spent for the benefit of society, not individuals.

I'm not arguing in favor of this health bill, nor against it. I'm just pretty tired of rhetoric and doomsday predictions. I'm just pretty tired of "I hate taxes (except when they benefit me)" and "I hate government (when the other guys are in charge)".

The health care and insurance industries had an opportunity to fix this situation themselves, and instead they spent billions fighting it. Had they focused their efforts on a solution (beyond outlawing medical malpractice suits), there would not have been a need to pass any bill. It's like a father saying to his children, "stop fighting over that video game or I'll come in there and NO ONE will get to play it!"

If businesses really want less regulation, then they need to STEP UP and act like responsible members of society when there is a glaring problem facing the nation. The "free-market" got knocked on its ass by its own doing.

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#11) On March 23, 2010 at 4:25 PM, guiseppewv (< 20) wrote:

I must be a dumb republican hick.....oh, wait, I am highly educated, successful, democrat who works in the DC Metro area and I think this bill is completely flawed.  I have no problem with everyone being insured.  I have a problem with the assumptions made to call this bill budget positive or neutral. Take these to the bank: the govt will not realize the savings they claimed they will in the bill (now law) from medicare AND the way they calculated the 10 year cost of the bill (i.e. they calculated the cost by using the first 10 years of the bill where there will be 10 years of taxes and only 5 years of payouts for coverage b/c the taxes start next year but the coverage doesn't take effect until 2016) is completely flawed.

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#12) On March 23, 2010 at 4:36 PM, ralphmachio (24.52) wrote:

In a world where there are many different levels of respect for ones body, and respect for the medical system itself, which is why it is unfair for someone who doesn't believe in seeing doctors to pay for someone else's medical expenses. 

Then there is the aspect of the useless middleman, who is there to make money, therefore takes from the whole process. A parasite who benefits from disease.

Then there is the idea that it can become a crime for not purchasing something, and eventually compulsive blood sampling, etc., etc.

If you're literate enough to post a blog, but can't see where this is going, I am confused. It makes me wonder whether there are actually paid government proponents writing these articles, because it is hard to imagine a real person being so naive to the problems of over-reaching government.  

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#13) On March 23, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Turfscape (41.28) wrote:

ralphmachio wrote:
"it is hard to imagine a real person being so naive to the problems of over-reaching government."

Some of us have been expressing that level of worry for ten years now...perhaps we just don't like the johnny-come-latelies and other band-wagon jumpers.

Honestly, man...you'll be surprised at just how much the world is NOT going to end here.

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#14) On March 23, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Rehydrogenated (35.26) wrote:

I like it when people bash Republicans for being the dumb hicks they are. Republicans are always on the offensive, with their big mouths, guns, and flags to hide how depressingly ignorant they are.

FYI I will insult Democrats in a blog attacking them if one comes by as well...

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#15) On March 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Varchild2008 (84.44) wrote:

"

chk999 wrote:
"Health care isn't free. Who will pay for expanded health care?"

The same people who pay for the roads. "

Our roads in Michgian have historically been in miserable shape and it wasn't too long ago that a large number of road and bridge projects...2008 I believe...were just dumped due to lack of funds.

What I would love to see is the look on the face of the first Obama-Care Health Bill supporter finally receiving the letter or phone call from the Federal Government that they can not pay for their Doctor's visit, their Cancer Screening, or MRI...or what have you because there is no money.

The main problem with the health bill is that the costs are going to accelerate as we keep finding new things about this bill that will cost MUCH MORE than the CBO scored while seeing that the "so called new revenues" generated with higher taxes will not actually create any new revenues but instead CUT revenues.

Governor Jennifer Granholm thought she would rescue Michigan's budget through an Income Tax hike and through reforming SBT into MBT.    Both these things have sent Michigan employment straight into 14+%.  

Michigan is WORST in the nation.....but that only means everyone else is set on a path to catch up.   How bad a state we are in....years from now... so will you be because of this Health Care Bill which is a much deeper tax impact than Granholm's Income tax hike and MBT malarky.  (Michigan Business Tax).

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#16) On March 23, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Varchild2008 (84.44) wrote:

1 more thing..

All you have to do is come to Michigan and count the POT HOLES.... each one represents a POT HOLE in the quality of your Health Care regardless of what insurance you have....regardless if you are poor or middle class or upper class.

This health care bill lowers quality by limiting access to quality health care.... Regardless if you are a millionairre.... If the Hospitals simply can not deal with a tax hike on medical devices then they will stop buying new and better medical devices and stop using them......cause they can't afford to replace them....

Medical Devices are what saves lives......  Robotic Arm is going away along with many other devices according to the very surgeon that operated recently on my Father because of this health care bill.

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#17) On March 23, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Turfscape (41.28) wrote:

Varchild wrote:
"Both these things have sent Michigan employment straight into 14+%. "

Yeah...THAT'S what did it. No other factors involved. Gotcha.

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#18) On March 23, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Turfscape (41.28) wrote:

Varchild wrote:
"Our roads in Michgian have historically been in miserable shape and it wasn't too long ago that a large number of road and bridge projects...2008 I believe...were just dumped due to lack of funds."

So, can I assume you stand each year in Lansing with signs that read "Kill the Roads!" and threaten to impeach any Governor that spends money on roads?

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#19) On March 23, 2010 at 5:27 PM, ocsurf (< 20) wrote:

Everyone should be complaining about this Bill.

Check out KDakota's blog:

Ron Paul: Stupak Deal Unconstitutional

 

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#20) On March 23, 2010 at 5:28 PM, imntacrook (< 20) wrote:

The health care bill has nothing to do with health care - it is government control of your lives - kiss your freedom goodbye. It stinks and the way it was shoved down our throats is even more odious. Vote 'em out every last Democrat and then we might, just might, be able to recover.

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#21) On March 23, 2010 at 5:32 PM, nottheSEC (78.49) wrote:

getrichdietrying valid points. If you are poor and get sick you will lose everything and there is no reason for that to happen in teh USA. There will always be conservative arguments against social programs/initiatives in their inception much like minmum wage, social security, etc. Now they got AG'S on the job.

ALSO very important "Hick" is a derogatory word.You make valid points unfortunately devalued bybuse of the word in my opinion  I also believe the media is biased toward minorities and choose not to be worse than my oppressor and say "hick." Again my opinion. 

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#22) On March 23, 2010 at 5:41 PM, nottheSEC (78.49) wrote:

 Also of note there is no "ground swell" of retired rich republican folks saying you know I should have the right to    opt totally out of medicare entitlement for a private insurance.

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#23) On March 23, 2010 at 5:47 PM, blake303 (29.88) wrote:

Vote 'em out every last Democrat and then we might, just might, be able to recover.

Yeah, that will fix everything. Good call. 

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#24) On March 23, 2010 at 5:58 PM, BadassMFer (62.40) wrote:

Does anyone know the story of the first hospital in this country?  A radical Philadelphian who had already helped establish and publically fund the local police and fire departments, decided that the sick immigrants and poor people needed a place to go and get help.  He went to the Pennsylvania legislator and offered that if private industry would donate, would the government match fundings to build a hospital.  Our healthcare system was born out of a combination of charity and government.  Not corporate profits.  And health is a right the government owes its people, just as safety is.  No one questions funding the fire department.  Or police.  This radically left wing sociliast nutjob started public funding of police, fire, and healthcare?  What was his name?  Benjamin Franklin.   

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#25) On March 23, 2010 at 6:06 PM, motleyanimal (97.81) wrote:

Is anyone else going to game the system? The year before mandatory insurance kicks in will be the year I defer any and all capital gains, assuring the maximum subsidy I can get.

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#26) On March 23, 2010 at 6:17 PM, NoMoeMoney (< 20) wrote:

hmmm, Rep are 'hicks' hmmm, well I guess I'm a hick..

Definition of a hick:

Religious- yep, I believe in god and Jesus. I nevered considered that a flaw, ..funny world we live in isn't it?

Owns Guns- yep, looks more and more a good choice for people, except those who don't have them- don't worry the Government will protect you.

Hunts - yep, might come in handy one of these days if my family needs food- Don't worry the supermakets will always have food in them right, I mean, people could starve couldn't they?

I might want to take up first-aid knowledge too considering that might be all I have for healthcare. Know that y'all

I like being a hick, might actually might 'save' me one of these days...

              

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#27) On March 23, 2010 at 7:01 PM, RonChapmanJr (98.51) wrote:

I love how this blog shows why this country is going down the tubes.  It has 2 errors in the title, has run on sentence errors, has a last sentence that makes no sense, and has a derogatory term in it, yet has received 24 recs in just a few hours.   A blog that is poorly written should be ignored and left to the wayside.  Why do we celebrate poor performance so quickly in this country (and on CAPS)?  Do we feel bad for people?  The less we require excellence from people, the less they will strive for that excellence.  I see this everyday with the kids I teach.  More and more often they expect something just for "showing up and trying".  When I tell them they actually have to succeed to get something they look shocked.  Their other teachers give them prizes because they made it to class.  How do these kids not grow up with a sense of entitlement?  Is it any wonder that so many more people think healthcare is a right?  Sorry, but taking money out of my pocket to help you fight your illness is not your right.  As long as so many are confused about that, this country doesn't stand a chance.

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#28) On March 23, 2010 at 9:07 PM, getrichdietrying (79.30) wrote:

I am now an official "Hick", more so than most of you who can comes to this site cause you own a computer. I am going back to school and I am impressed to be called the good one in  Eng 95, "you know we all took it." 97% of my class mates do not own one, do not know how to use one, and ask fellow classmates how to use MS office or even GODS that I believe in how to use the internet! So, please don't make comments that you are a "Hick," when you do not know your neighbors, and yet I still see comments here that some who posted seem to think they make sense.

 As my teacher in ENG 95 in Hick town said,"Write English as a communication language and try avoiding as you think, read, and SPEAK, because we all do! 

SO IF YOU HAVE ARGUMENTS ON THIS I NEED TO UNDERSTAND AS THE NEW HICK "MINORITY" I AM.

As to last comment, yes I am still bettering my self with the rest of "Hick" America. Please, we learn as we mature.

By the way I love being the "hick",. LOL/.//////originally from Chicago!!!!

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#29) On March 23, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Turfscape (41.28) wrote:

RonChapmanJr wrote:
"I love how this blog shows why this country is going down the tubes"

If one could mark up a post with a blog version of the 'red pen', your post would be quite colorful, sir. I'm fairly certain there's a passage in a well-known book that states something about pointing out the speck in another's eye while a log resides in one's own...

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#30) On March 23, 2010 at 9:13 PM, SockMarket (87.07) wrote:

Ron,

It has 2 errors in the title, has run on sentence errors, has a last sentence that makes no sense, and has a derogatory term in it, yet has received 24 recs in just a few hours.

And I suppose a few grammar lessons would save us? Incidentally what do you find deragatory in the title? Republican or complaining? My feeling is that if someone makes a good point it deserves a rec. Period. No matter how they write it. 

 

The less we require excellence from people, the less they will strive for that excellence. I see this everyday with the kids I teach.  More and more often they expect something just for "showing up and trying".  When I tell them they actually have to succeed to get something they look shocked.  Their other teachers give them prizes because they made it to class.  How do these kids not grow up with a sense of entitlement?

as someone being taught now I think I can answer this. most kids hate school, annoying adults push us around, control our every action, right down to the time of our bowel movements and cram apparently useless information in our heads. Last I checked no one really strove for sucess under those conditions. I don't doubt that kids have some feeling of entitlement, however when they get thrown out into the harsh reality of the world I suspect this disappears very fast. 

 

Sorry, but taking money out of my pocket to help you fight your illness is not your right.  As long as so many are confused about that, this country doesn't stand a chance.

That is a personal stance, you cannot prove that it is accurate or inaccurate. Therefore people cannot be "confused" about it if they disagree with you. Statements like this give people the impression you are a hard-hearted jerk. I am not saying you are but when someone needs some financial help to save their life and you won't give it, it does not look good. After all one of the traits scientists consider to be a sign of being human is the ability and willingness to care for others.

 

Is it any wonder that so many more people think healthcare is a right?

I would say it is a right. In this I believe the founding fathers would agree as they said that we have the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". You can lose your life if you don't have healthcare, and it is very hard to pursue happiness if you are sick. 

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#31) On March 23, 2010 at 9:46 PM, TMFBreakerOrion (92.00) wrote:

I think the health care bill is representative of a bigger problem.  Our two parties no longer believe there's a need to work together to find compromise.  It's more about which party is in power and then voting as a block.  It's reprehensible the way that the politicians are acting...working for the good of the "party" rather than being individuals working for the good of the people they represent.  I'd rather that NOT decisions were able to be made unless at least 10% of the parties were to agree to it at a minimum.  Force politicians to go back to negotiating with each other in good faith.  Both parties have been truly awful with the way they've been acting.  I personally believe the Democrats have been more blatant about it but realistically both are so bad that it's more a matter of "flavor" than which side is being worse than the other.

 We need to vote accordingly in the next elections.  Bring a whole new breed of politicians into power and remove those that have lost their individuality.

 Beyond that, I think that this nation is as strong and as powerful as it is because we have a history of individual accomplishment and responsibility.  I love the idea of all individuals having access to health care at a reasonable cost.  (The question becomes, what's a reasonable cost?)  I'm am vehemently against regulating that everyone MUST have it.  If I choose not to have health insurance than I have the option of paying for it out of my own pocket.  I'd much rather see the government offer a catastrophic coverage paid for out of the tax base.  Covering bills that exceed the current poverty level for instance...adjusted for inflation going forward of course.  I definitely do NOT want the government to have any say in what choices doctors make regarding appropriate treatment however.

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#32) On March 23, 2010 at 10:27 PM, rd80 (99.11) wrote:

when someone needs some financial help to save their life and you won't give it, it does not look good.

Ron never said he wouldn't give someone help.  He said the government doesn't have the right to force him to give someone help.

Think very carefully about what declaring healthcare a right means.  How much of your paycheck and assets are you willing to have confiscated by the government to pay to provide that right to others if costs skyrocket? 10%, 25%, 50%, 100% ?? Keep in mind that medical technology could easily develop procedures that make anything available today look cheap. How about if someone needs a kidney transplant and you're a match? Do they have a right to one of your kidneys against your will?  After all, you have one you don't need and they have a right to healthcare.

I concede the kidney is a stretch.  But, do you really trust the court system when some lawyer brings that case? And some lawyer somewhere will bring a case demanding the gov't provide [fill in the blank] because her client has a right to healtcare. Gloria Allred is probably already drafting the arguments.

It sounds great to say healthcare is a right, but gets much, much more complicated when you consider the costs and sacrifices that might need to be made to provide that right and that declaring healthcare a right necesarily requires the rights of others to be infringed in order to provide it.

 

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#33) On March 23, 2010 at 10:32 PM, soycapital (< 20) wrote:

So do we want the brilliant/efficient minds of federal employees running our health care system?

 Yeah right? I rest my case you Hicks! Oh I almost forgot Fox News is racist!

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#34) On March 23, 2010 at 10:34 PM, ralphmachio (24.52) wrote:

So turf, are you one of the cool kids on the playground? Do you agree, or not? On one hand you are calling me a Johnny come lately, but on the other your trying to lump me into a category which I do not belong, and saying I'm taking it too far. What, are you an insurance salesman or something? I have witnessed the abuse of power since mid childhood, so I am not sure how I am a Johnny come lately, or is that in reference to the MF? Who cares? Anyway, I appreciate your pointless effort to ruffle my feathers, and apologize for offending you with my views, but I think it is you who are the Johnny come lately, as I have been speaking of systemic injustice and obesity for 2 decades, and not just because my political party told me to, or because it benefits me financially. And thanks for that trip down memory lane, right back to the junior high playground. 'We' don't like Johnny come latelys.  Do you have an imaginary friend you'd also like to include in this discussion, or are people usually cool with you speaking on their behalf?(you imagine...) 

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#35) On March 23, 2010 at 11:00 PM, AvianFlu (48.37) wrote:

Um....in your title shouldn't you avoid spelling errors? In this case, the word is "complaining". You wouldn't want someone confusing you with a Republican "hick".

I'm a conservative Republican.
I have two degrees.
One is in music.
The other is in computer technology, with a minor in mathematics, and a minor physics.
I graduated cum laude, back when that meant something.
If you think all Republicans are hicks, then you are sadly delusional.
If you truly want an intellectual perspective on so-called health reform you should read "Liberty and Tyranny" by Mark Levin.
I am completely for sensible health reform.
However, the bill that just passed is not the answer.
That is simply a power grab and a grievous erosion of everyone's personal freedoms.

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#36) On March 23, 2010 at 11:01 PM, SockMarket (87.07) wrote:

rd,

Ron never said he wouldn't give someone help.  He said the government doesn't have the right to force him to give someone help.

I would argue it is the same thing, one step removed. Ron pays a tax, that money goes to the gov't who pays for an operation...

 

How much of your paycheck and assets are you willing to have confiscated by the government to pay to provide that right to others if costs skyrocket

True that would be an issue, however if Europe is any example costs should actually decrease from what they are now. Especially if you do it right (which I am not saying the current bill does, however I do think it is a good precedent that we can change healthcare). I would gladly pay everything I didn't need to help others (the need includes what I need to retire when I choose). If I don't need it I see no reason I should have it. Or any amount up to what I pay now, whichever proves to be higher. 

 

And some lawyer somewhere will bring a case demanding the gov't provide [fill in the blank] because her client has a right to healtcare.

well if we had a functional court then it would approve (in most cases, obviously nothing is perfect) only those claims that were necessary. If the court does not do this the problem is the court, not healthcare. Also I am not sure that a court could possibly be any worse than the insurance companies already are. They are, by nature, corrupt and usually attempt to deny your claim outright. 

 

It sounds great to say healthcare is a right, but gets much, much more complicated when you consider the costs and sacrifices that might need to be made to provide that right and that declaring healthcare a right necesarily requires the rights of others to be infringed in order to provide it.

Perhaps I am looking at this too simply, what other costs do you see? Sure there are sacrifices but currently we are sacrificing quite a bit more than we need to to the insurance companies so I would rather sacrifice my dough to someone who needs it. Also the constitution gives congress the right to levy and collect taxes so I don't see how rights would be infringed upon. please elaborate

 

turf,

nice. :)

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#37) On March 23, 2010 at 11:37 PM, rd80 (99.11) wrote:

I would argue it is the same thing, one step removed. Ron pays a tax, that money goes to the gov't who pays for an operation...

It's not even close to the same thing.  In the first instance, the individual decides how much they're willing to give.  In the second, the gov't decides how much they are going to give.

I would gladly pay everything I didn't need to help others

That's great.  Are you ready to let the gov't decide how much you don't need?  No need to answer this, but are you currently giving everything you don't need to charity?  If not, why do you think it'll be better when the gov't takes it instead of you making the decision?

costs should actually decrease from what they are now

Except even the rigged CBO figures show costs are going up.  What is it, $950 billion of new spending over 10 years?  The 'deficit goes down' because of all the new taxes, double counting ficticious Medicare savings, ignoring the Medicare doctor fix and other accounting gimmicks that would send a CEO to jail for fraud.

what other costs do you see?

No clue.  I just know that nearly every, if not every, government program in history has cost more than projected and/or raised less revenue than projected.  What I do know is that if healtcare is a right, whatever the future costs may be, someone has to pick up the tab.  

Look at it this way.  If healthcare is a right, you have just incentivized every lab and pharma company on the planet to develop the most incredibly expensive treatments and devices they can imagine because it's a right and the government (i.e., taxpayers) will have to pay for it. 

Even if the system were nationalized, the gov't needs to decide between coming up with the resources needed to provide the right OR not meeting the need, which is implicitly deciding healthcare wasn't really a right after all.

Past my bedtime.  'night all.

 

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#38) On March 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, 292972826 wrote:

It is clear that they don't have a phd....

 

 

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#39) On March 24, 2010 at 10:56 AM, miteycasey (95.17) wrote:

When speaking with a local "Hick", in my town she could not come up with a reason for why she believes health care coverage for the poor is bad, her reason which is pointless to argue is "they will raise our taxes."

SO working hard to provide for yourself and your family why the governemnt takes ~1/3 of your check and uses some of it to support otthers who don't work  isn't a valid reason?

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#40) On March 24, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Turfscape (41.28) wrote:

ralphmachio wrote:
"So turf, are you one of the cool kids on the playground?"

I've never felt so. I always felt just a little out of place. I'm also an introvert, by nature. That can create additional challenges to fitting in with others in a social context.

"What, are you an insurance salesman or something?"

No. But do you feel that insurance is a disreputable industry? Should we not trust those who represent the insurance industry? Many financial advisers and planners also hold insurance licenses, as insurance should be a part of a complete financial plan for any given individual. Your statement may come off as quite an insult to those financial professionals who frequent this site.

"...as I have been speaking of systemic injustice and obesity for 2 decades..."

Hmmm. Within such a long time span, I would have expected you to have developed a voice of reason, instead of the panic and hysteria that you tend to display.

I'll elaborate on my opinion here: this forum, this country...everyone is really good at being reactionary. When something happens, we jump up loud and proud to fight it. What we don't do is look forward and say, "how can we make sure we don't get to 'that place' where it becomes necessary for government to intervene". We don't do a very good job of monitoring ourselves during successful times. We don't do a very good job of keeping rational during euphoria or depression.

Whether times are really good, really bad or transitory, we need to keep reason at the forefront of everything we do. We need to have a full plan of action that looks out past the end of the decade, and we need to work that plan. We need to stop being so reactionary. We need to stop looking at how the things we do affect our paychecks now and look at how they affect the world and lives into which our grandchilren's grandchildren will be born.

Unregulated industry failed in this instance. That's why healthcare reform passed. We (as in the collective society that is the United States of America) had an opportunity to prevent this bill from coming to pass...not by blocking debate, not by voting against the politicians supporting it, not by filing lawsuits...but by demanding more of ourselves and our business communities. We had an opportunity to be responsible citizens, and we stood on the sidelines with our hands in our pockets, saying "not my problem".

Shame on us. This legislation shall be the cross we bear for not monitoring our own behavior. This shall be our scarlet letter for not being better people and not working towards a better society without government intervention.

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#41) On March 24, 2010 at 11:06 AM, shoptrade326 wrote:

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#42) On March 24, 2010 at 11:06 AM, 292972826 wrote:

By reading trough the comments, i can see a lot of hypocrisies.

I listen trough the Tea Party argument but when I asked them to remove the 25% taxes that I pay every year for the military, they hick up.

So, if you want freedom and no government, please fight and tell us that you want to remove the military from this country as well as medicare for Grandma because that one also is a big part of my taxesl.

Please answer, Tea party activist, do you want to remove the 25 % of taxes that we pay for the military?

Thank you

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#43) On March 24, 2010 at 11:18 AM, nottheSEC (78.49) wrote:

   In this country we do not celebrate poor performance we are just in a new age of sad understanding.Years of neglect of our education system to varying degrees has lead us to be a dumber country. A country especially devoid of math and science skills.

 Therefore  WE understand that argument itself should not be minimized for poor presentation. An elitist cannot see that some folks did not have the chances or education they had. I live in NYC and see elitist every day. They cannot hold a conversation with an average man for 30 secs.

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#44) On March 24, 2010 at 11:20 AM, nottheSEC (78.49) wrote:

"has lead us" should read "led us"

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#45) On March 24, 2010 at 11:30 AM, 292972826 wrote:

I listen trough the Tea Party argument but when I asked them to remove the 25% taxes that I pay every year for the military, they hiccup.

So, if you want freedom and no government, please fight and tell us that you want to remove the military from this country as well as medicare for Grandma because that one also is a big part of my taxesl.

Please answer, Tea party activist, do you want to remove the 25 % of taxes that we pay for the military?

Thank you

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#46) On March 24, 2010 at 12:19 PM, skeptic86 (89.77) wrote:

I think this health care bill didnt really address the problem. The problem isnt that there are ~35 million people are uninsured. The problem is ~35 million people (plus the millions that become finacially ruined bc insurance/healthcare) cant afford health care. I think the bill was a quick fix to get votes this november. now 35 million more people have access to the same expensive healthcare we have. sooner or later we will have to address the real problem of expensive healthcare.

 

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#47) On March 24, 2010 at 12:53 PM, 4everlost (30.49) wrote:

-1 Rec

"Fox news is racist to minorities of all types as reflected by their coverage,..."

Senseless words with no proof or evidence.  

"Go figure, please don't post if you don't have valid points and just more Fox "senseless words," to throw back here"

This is a very hypocritical comment.

Go get some information and facts before you post again.

 

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#48) On March 24, 2010 at 1:15 PM, SockMarket (87.07) wrote:

rd,

you are taking my post out of context. other than your first point (and last paragraph) I had an answer to everything you wrote. (ie you quote me, out of context, as saying costs could go down and then go on to tell me how costs would rise in the current system. I said in a well run system costs would fall. I went on to say the current change was not good but was a good precedent.)

If you can't argue against something without skewing the author's origional meaning, don't.  

so what you did not take out of context I will respond to:

I just know that nearly every, if not every, government program in history has cost more than projected and/or raised less revenue than projected.  What I do know is that if healtcare is a right, whatever the future costs may be, someone has to pick up the tab.

The government isn't trying to make a buck off this, like insurance is, so even if costs are higher, etc. it will, in all likleyhood, cost less than current insurance because no one is taking in billions they don't need to. So, we will have to pick up that tab (we already do, just look at the system) but that tab will be much smaller, if we get some good reform. 

 

If healthcare is a right, you have just incentivized every lab and pharma company on the planet to develop the most incredibly expensive treatments and devices they can imagine

no, just the products they can make the most profit on. Also suppose the government puts a cap, with a few exceptions of course, on the cost of such equipment (or if they buy them in bulk, reducing overall cost)?

 

And ust quickly, I am keeping all my dough right now because I will need it, and more, to pay for college (I go next year) but I am guessing that by the time I am in my mid-late 30's I can start giving a substantial amount. 

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#49) On March 24, 2010 at 1:19 PM, vtBrunson (60.26) wrote:

Good points on #41 and #43 shoptrade326 :

You had me at:  

Air jordan(1-24)shoes $30

How much for trollbait?

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#50) On March 25, 2010 at 9:57 AM, miteycasey (95.17) wrote:

So, if you want freedom and no government, please fight and tell us that you want to remove the military from this country as well as medicare for Grandma because that one also is a big part of my taxesl.

Please answer, Tea party activist, do you want to remove the 25 % of taxes that we pay for the military?

 

I'll meet you half way and cut both by 50%.

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