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Why I love CRBC - Citizens Republic Bank

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February 28, 2011 – Comments (8) | RELATED TICKERS: CRBC

Afraid of the baking industry?  Afraid to buy a company with a stock price under $1?  So is everyone else in this country.  That's why you should be looking at (if not already invested in) CRBC.

 A few months back i wrote about CRBC.  It was then trading at .59 a share, had a fair market value of $1.20-1.4 and was just putting in place their plan to recover from their bad decisions that swept the nation.  They said they were going to lose money in Q4.  Guess what?  They lost money.  They say they're going to lose money in Q1 of 2011, probably not turning a profit until Q3 of 2011.  Guess what will most likely happen?  They're probably going to lose money in 2011, not turning a profit until Q3, maybe even Q4.

Why none of that matters:

Since i wrote about this company, the stock price has moved from .59-.60 range to .85.  that is a about a 40% move.  Guess what?  it's still being offered at a price that is .46 times BOOK VALUE.  That means, this company is not even trading for 1x what it's worth in terms of tangible book value.  The price of this company should be double where it is today.

Everyone is screaming about Net Income... it's so low, it's negative, it's off..... blah blah blah.  I don't even look at Net Income when i invest.  Why?  Because I deem it to be insignificant, and often times "played with" in a cheap attempt to "cook the books" on a per quarter basis.  I learned this from listening to Warren Buffett.  I used to think it was the end all be all.

Buffett basically said:

Net Income can screw with you; here's how.  I run company X.  we have Earning From Operations (a much better measurement) of 1 million a year.  I took some cash and made some really poor investment decisions and lost 2 million this year.  I now have a net income of -1 million.  But my BUSINESS still EARNS 1 million a year.  Am I in bad shape?  only if i continue to invest like that every year.  I should be shot.   Example two:  I run company x and we lost 1 million in Earnings from Operations.  But i was slick, and i made 2 million in investments with some cash we had.  So my Net Income shows that i Made 1 million this year?  Is that accurate?  Or is this really a terrible business with a brilliant investor handling the money?  In both of these situations, ANALYSTS don't care, understand, or even consider.  They simply regurgitate net income and think - oh man, this is terrible.  or Wow, look at how great they are.  Foolish.

I personally own over 30k shares of CRBC.  I have a cost basis of mid .60's. Guess what?  I'm still buying.  As i free up more money from other investments i have made, i am buying more CRBC.  Why?  Well, it's worth double what it's trading at now.    This company will eventually be worth what it used to be worth.  When?  In the future.  For the last 20 years, CRBC was on the low side, a $20 stock.   Will they get there again?  Maybe, Yes.  When?  in the future.  Well how long?  Who knows or cares.  It will be worth more in 2012 than it is now.  It will be worth more in 2015 than it is in 2012.  and it will be worth more in 2025 than it is in 2015.

 

The real reason my time line is FOREVER (and i mean this).  CRBC used to pay $1.16 ANNUALLY in dividends.  They did that from about 2000 - 2008 or so.  When that comes back (and it will) I will make 100%+ back ANNUALLY in dividend payments.  Remember, I only spent mid .60's for the stock.  For simple math, I will get my 100% investment back, plus an additional 80% annually just for holding on to it long enough to receive this (if it's restored to 1.16 - probably not right away, but eventually).  So, why is stock price not that much of a factor for me?  because my time-line is forever.  and in the future ( i dont know when) this company will back at it's levels of above $20 per share and it will restore it's dividend eventually raising it up back up to above $1.00.  (100% of my investment is back at a .65 dividend, and from there, it's additional gravy).

For me, I plan on willing this investment to my children with one stipulation in the will:  You will NEVER be allowed to sell this, and you must will this to your children with the same rules. 

 PS.  I own CRBC in 3 different accounts.  An IRA (tax exempt until i cash out, which is never), and two ROTH IRA's (mine and my wifes). (Tax Exempt, period). So i can't cash out for many many many years. (i'm 28 now).  it forces me to make a long term decision with the money. 

The first 4 rules of investing by Warren Buffett:

Rule #1 - Don't lose money

Rule #2 - Don't forget Rule #1

Rule #3 - Buy and Hold FOREVER

Rule #4 - Don't forget the "Hold" part of Rule #3.

 

The reason buy and hold "doesn't work" for most people out there; they forget the hold part of buy and hold.  Stocks prices go up and down each day.  if someone came to you and offered you 10k for your house, and it's paid off (no mortgage), and you feel it's worth 100k, are you going to sell just because someone blew up an oil field in Iran?  Nope.  Who cares?  Wait until someone offers you 200k for that house, and you know it's worth only 100k to sell.  Stay away from margin accounts in investing, and buy really great companies at fair prices and you'll never be "forced" to sell for a loss.  Hold on to it until the price is so ridiculously high you can't bear it anymore.   

I feel the same way about FBC (Flag Star Bank - currently building there, too).  I will hold both forever.  I will make a lot of money on both investments.  You can, too.   But don't cry to me because you decided to sell CRBC @ .5 because they "lost money Q1 and Q2 of 2011".  No one forced you to buy, or sell for that matter.  I'm just letting you know what i'm doing with my money.  track it for a while.  Be your own judge.  If you don't like it, you won't hurt my feelings.  If you do like it.  Great.  Just remember to hold it long enough to make it an investment, and not a speculation. 

8 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On February 28, 2011 at 12:37 PM, L0RDZ (55.79) wrote:

Wow...  but to suggest that citizens republic bank is a great company is a bit of a stretch.

Anyone can hold forever, just ask the old Gm shareholders, ask them how that strategy worked.

Although I am not Warren Buffet, my take is that stocks are sort of like gernades, and holding onto a gernade forever isn't always a smart idea.

Sometimes you have to toss them away.

My advice if your looking for a banking play, look into buying PGF

PowerShares Financial Preferred (NYSE)

 Unlike citizens they'll pay you a dividend each month.

 

 

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#2) On February 28, 2011 at 12:48 PM, L0RDZ (55.79) wrote:

06/14/10 CRBC 5Y $0.90 $0.84
( +5.25%)-7.00%+21.36%-28.36

 

On 6-14-10 drew green thumbed CRBC with a .90 entry start price since that time   CRBC has lost -7% according to caps while the s&P gained over 21% according to caps

 While CRBC may go up ?  that track record is suspect at best.

 

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#3) On February 28, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Valyooo (99.91) wrote:

Buffett likes to buy good companies with a long term durable compettive advantage that don't lose money when everybody else is making money...this does not fit the criteria

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#4) On February 28, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Drew2142 (96.76) wrote:

LORDZ. 

Without a doubt, you're correct.  I am down in the stock on CAPS.  IRL, i am up.  Up signifcantly.  And 5 years from now, I will be up more still. 

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#5) On February 28, 2011 at 6:06 PM, L0RDZ (55.79) wrote:

Drew I hope you're right, but I would recommend that you don't put all your eggs in the same basket or get too stubborn into not changing especially when circumstances change, don't be like those who bought Lehmans all the way down and kept doubling up or those who owned Bear Sterns or GM or the other countless thousands of companies who's stock lost 100% of their shareholders value.

Your willingness to not sell at any price and your stipulations that you'll simply will this to your children under the condition that they never sell  is a bit over the top.   Many stocks never recover and some never restart dividends nor are worthy of buying and never selling.

 

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#6) On March 01, 2011 at 2:03 PM, SlowAndSteady123 (43.77) wrote:

I agree with you, L0RDZ, that 'buy-and-hold-forever' is a strategy that can get you into a lot of trouble. Flexibility to changing circumstances is important. I do think Drew2142 has a point with Citizens Republic Bank also, though. It looks to have staying power and will probably reward investors willing to stick with it for the next 1-2 years.

Citizens has interested me for sometime now because its share price has been so depressed and low relative to tangible book value. It is a relatively large regional bank (something like 49th biggest in the country). It is also old -- I believe it dates back to the 1870s. The bank was hit hard before the financial crisis because it is in an area that was already economically depressed. Thus its recovery has been slower than other banks. But when you put all these factors together, I think it means that Citizens represents a pretty unique opportunity for investors who feel like they can speculate just a little bit.

It will take Citizens awhile to pay back its TARP funds, and I think getting back to the $20 level will be years and years away (and I mean that: literally years and years). Same thing for a reinstatement of the dividend, most likely (at least for common shareholders). But I do think it is past the point where it is likely to fail, barring a double-dip recession. And the CEO Ms. Nash seems to be taking the bank along a relatively conservative course that may make recovery take longer but will probably be good for the bank in the long term. I suppose its possible that Citizens could get bought up by another bank, but its size means that it would have to be one of the big players. I don't think that's likely to happen.

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#7) On March 01, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Drew2142 (96.76) wrote:

SlowAndSteady123:

 Thanks for adding to the debate.  I like all the opinions of where i'm going wrong and where i'm going right.  that's how we get better.

 

CRBC is the 2nd largest midwestern bank...behind Flag Star - another low dollar gem being gobbled up by Hedge Funds right now.

 

Regional banks are still seen as risky and taboo.  Michigan (i live in Michigan) has been in a 9 year recession.  most of the companies that were going to go out, went out already before the last 3 years.  the last 3 years forced the rest out.  it's a ghost town here. 

But that means that property, labor, and yes even money - are cheap here.  and people from outside michigan have caught on to that.  developement in detroit right now is huge.  it won't be overnight, but in a few years detroit will be the turnaround story of the nation. - i don't mean autos, i mean the city itself.

And as Michigan recovers, so goes the banks that help make it possible here.

it doesn't scare me that "years and years" will pass before a stock price of 5 10 or even 20 will return.  nor does it bother me to wait for a dividend to be re-instated.  the real money in the company will be made 5-10 years from now.  not 1-2. 

To hold on to this for 1-2 years hoping that i wake up to a 30 dollar price is not realistic.  I know i have to wait  and waiting is what i intend to do.

 

This is not the same as GM... GM has been limping since the 70's with legacy healthcare costs.  CRBC doesn't have those problems.  it fell into the trap of lending money freely because fanny and freddy would buy the paper - or some other entity would buy the paper. 

a wake up call has been issued.  They get the message.  the conservative recovery is a good thing.  You're spot on there. 

tangible book is important to me, and this is a double right now in my opinion.  and that may only be my opinion.  I'm cool with that.

but of course, if business metrics change so drastically that it forces to me to move away, i'm going to do that.  i'm not so stubborn that i am too busy looking at the trees to see the forest.  But all i'm saying, is at sub $1, this is insane.  and it's worth a lot more.  and it may take a while to realize that gain.  i don't mind waiting.  i know it will go up and down. but next year it will be worth more, and so on and so forth.   

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#8) On March 02, 2011 at 12:33 PM, L0RDZ (55.79) wrote:

Michigan has been in a single state Depression long before the entire country began sharing in the misery, MI alone has suffered its like the  old Sanford and Son joke about the guy talking about how he has been unemployed  a good ten years before the current downturn in the employment markets.

What i'm suggesting is that while you are waiting for such a stock to possibly recover you  could be missing out using that money on other investment opportunities, however if your bad  at choosing and deciding like some people I know perhaps just leaving it alone may be best for you.

Since your younger you really shouldn't squander the time that you have in compounding your money and don't use that as an excuse in staying with a bad investment.

 

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