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alstry (35.38)

You guys are simply CLUELESS!!!!!!

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June 07, 2009 – Comments (49)

If my analysis is right....a major world conflict could break out before you ever find out.....oh well...cest le vie.

America's Governments employ over 21,000,000 people at all levels......government collectively spends about $6.5 Trillion dollars or half of our GDP......WITHOUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING.......OUR GDP EVAPORATES!!!!!  (table the savings to taxpayers for a second).

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/index.php?year=2009

America Inc. generates revenues primarily throgh various forms of taxes....the number one generating area is individual and corporate income taxes.......

And as we all know.....revenues to America's corporations are shrinking.....but even more incredible is the contracting earnings of America's business....the EARNINGS to the S&P 500 are down 90%.......and factoring NOL carrybacks.....the corporate receipts to government could be DOWN even MORE!!!!!!!

In addition, the top 50% of middle and higher income earners pay the VAST MAJORITY OF TAXES IN AMERICA......this is not a fairness issue....simply one of gross dollars and the facts are indisputable.....the top half of Americans pay practially almost ALL of the taxes....especially if you factor in corporations paying taxes.

AGAIN...SAVE THE FAIRNESS ISSUE FOR LATER!!!!!!!

The problem now is that the corporations that were paying lots of taxes and the middle and upper class of Americans are simply paying a small fraction of the taxes they used to........NEVER IN AMERICAN HISTORY HAS TAX REVENUES CONTRACTED SO DRAMTICALLY AT A TIME WHEN GOVERNMENT WAS SO LARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, this is not a fairness issue.....it is simply a fact.  Now government needs to come up with about $3 Trillion dollars simply to maintain current levels of expenses.

$3 Trillion Dollars is an incredibly LARGE NUMBER that there is no historical precedent to compare.....it is 2x the total of all American Debt that China has accumulated over the past 100 years.

It is about $80,000 per family for the top half of America.  The problem is that over the past year.....about 25,000 million Americans have lost their jobs are forced to work part time when they need to work full time....ostensibly the vast majority of these people are no longer paying income taxes and many of them have become liabilities on government....

Let's illustrate this for a second but not for the purpose of mathematical accuracy.......if we assume America is about 300,000,000 million people......and about 150,000,000 constitute the top half of income earners and 150,000,000 the bottom half......through job losses and part time migration than we have moved we have moved 25,000,000 from from the top half into the bottom half(again simply for illustrative purposes....because there are many who would not qualify and many self employed people who have also migrated or suffered HUGE wage losses that are not counted..it all balances out in the end with my analysis likely being conservative for illustrating the issue).....now we would have 175,000,000 on the bottom and only 125,000,000 on the top.......a smaller top is supporting a much larger bottom.

Trust me on this one....the income to the top half of America is evaporating as is evidenced by a 44% decrease in income tax receipts.

AMERICA IS OUT OF MONEY.....AND IT DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO GENERATE THE FUNDS.....AND NIETHER DOES THE WORLD.

At this point, Obama basically has two choices....tax the top 50% of Americans 100% of their incomes......or impose draconian cuts on government spending.  IF THE RICH AND MIDDLE CLASS ARE NOT EARNING MONEY.....America is not generating revenues!!!!!!

and there are 21,000,000 Americans who work for the government depending on those revenues plus countless others....especially in health care and defense that also depend on government spending....plus another 175,000,0000 to 200,000,000 that depend on entitlements or are in the bottom half.

AT THIS POINT EXPECT MAJOR CHANGE.....100% TAX ON THE TOP 50% OF INCOME EARNERS...RICH AND MIDDLE CLASS......OR HUGE CUTS TO GOVERNMENT SPENDING DRIVING OUR COUNRY INTO A MASSIVE DEPRESSION....

or of course the most likely outcome......PREPARE FOR WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  and a war like you have never seen before........which makes our current economic issues non relevant.

How hard is it to see that without the middle class and rich paying taxes....government can't spend and if government can't spend....21,000,000 well paid government workers can't make an income and tens of millions of health care, defense, and those that service the bottom half of the population will see their incomes evaporate.......

Yes....my friends....we hit the iceberg when Alstry started blogging.....now the only question is when will we all be swimming or when will the war break out......it is as simple or complex as that.

49 Comments – Post Your Own

#1) On June 07, 2009 at 3:10 PM, HarryCarysGhost (99.68) wrote:

So what companies do you recommend in these troubling times.

Or is it the End O' times.

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#2) On June 07, 2009 at 3:26 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

Not the end of times....simply a morphing from private free market economy and private ownership of goods and services to government/chosen elite owning the means of production.....or Fascism if you will.....and the rest of us will simply be worker bees making a subsistance living and getting subsistance healthcare if we are lucky.....that is if we keep going down the same path.

It is not too far off now......currently 6000 people and business are declaring bankruptcy everyday....soon it will be 12,000......then 24,000..........then the Fed will own everything through TARP and TALF................and the dollar will be the strongest currency in the world backed by the entire physical assets of the USofA.

It ain't hard to see......just difficult to believe.

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#3) On June 07, 2009 at 3:30 PM, jddubya (50.69) wrote:

100% income tax - not gonna happen.  Ridiculous statement.  There won't be a tax that forces a person to quit working "above the table"

 War?  Like we've never seen before?  Another ridiculous statement.  

I can agree to the possibilty of your predictions occuring on a very much smaller scale/level - Perhaps other non-income taxes raised or implemented, and some sort of military "righteousness" actions taken.

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#4) On June 07, 2009 at 3:37 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

jd,

you have to balance the numbers somehow....we need $3 Trillion and that is what we need......the math and numbers never lie...only people do.

You either cut entitlements completely or tax 100% of income to the top 50%......there is no other path to $3 Trillion.

If you try to print, interest rates will increase forcing you to print more increasing interest rates even more forcing you to print more increasing interest rates even more forcing you to print more..........until interest rates exceed 100% AND a loaf of bread is $1000 and filling up your car with gas is $100,000.

Just as I told you....the math is easy as I am only a competent mathematician.....it is just hard to believe that the numbers are soooooo draconian.

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#5) On June 07, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Buckaneer (< 20) wrote:

100% tax. Nope. Why work then. You make good observations, but don't discredit yourself with this type of exaggeration.

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#6) On June 07, 2009 at 3:45 PM, jddubya (50.69) wrote:

Agreed, the numbers must be balanced, math and numbers don't lie, only people do.

I think there's gonna be a lot of lying going on as an alternative path to the 3 trillion. 

I mean, c'mon - let's talk reality - who do you know that would continue working while being taxed 100%?

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#7) On June 07, 2009 at 3:45 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

Buckaneer,

I have presented my thesis to a bunch of very high level mathematicians such as phsysicists, physicians, and Princton grads.....at the beginning.....few want to believe......

but after we go through the numbers....inevitably they become members of the Institute of Alstrynomics and avid readers of this blog....

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#8) On June 07, 2009 at 3:52 PM, selfdestruct2 (42.22) wrote:

I have nothing relevant to add. Just wanted to say that these are scary times we live in.

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#9) On June 07, 2009 at 3:54 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

jd,

You must take your brain out of what you want to see and hear and focus on what is........

That is one of the most difficult things to do in the current environment.....

You must separate facts from opinions and beliefs...

The fact is government must raise about $3 Trillion....it is as simple or complex as that..........and its citizens are running out of money as 6000 individuals and corporations are declaring bankruptcy everyday.

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#10) On June 07, 2009 at 3:54 PM, TSIF (99.96) wrote:

Man Alstry, I just noticed how great your CAP's picks are doing again. Most of your down thrumbs are going up, but the S&P is going up faster so you're banking some points. Great job picking the stocks that will go UP the least!!!!!  I guess being doom and gloom does occasionally work!!!!

Is it time for you to post a new blog yet?   You're behind schedule this month. Lots of good fodder coming your way soon!!!!

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#11) On June 07, 2009 at 4:00 PM, TSIF (99.96) wrote:

I just did the math, actually, you're well ahead this month on your blogs per month, you should have a new blog post record....again!  Keep up the great fact finding!

Everytime I see one of your posts at the top of the BLOG list, I know that MF computer systems are up todate and all is well.....that is if I can tell a new post from you from an old one.  Some do seem similar....

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#12) On June 07, 2009 at 4:00 PM, jddubya (50.69) wrote:

Who do you know that would continue working while being taxed 100%?  The fact is I don't know anyone who would do this. 

So, again, who do you know that would continue working while being taxed 100%?

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#13) On June 07, 2009 at 4:17 PM, RonChapmanJr (92.59) wrote:

If those taxes went toward food, shelter, health care and other basic stuff, you would continue to go to work so that you can live somewhere, eat and have health care even if it was 100% of your income.

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

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#14) On June 07, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Mary953 (74.21) wrote:

Doctors, jddubya.  I know quite a few doctors who have continued to work while being taxed at rates exceeding 100% of their net income (gross minus office overhead).  In fact, Medicare pays only overhead and Medicaid pays less than overhead - or does here.  Unfortunately, so many of the best doctors of my acquaintance chose the profession because of a wish to relieve pain and illness rather than a wish to get rich. 

Still,

How hard is it to see that without the middle class and rich paying taxes....government can't spend and if government can't spend....21,000,000 well paid government workers can't make an income and tens of millions of health care, defense, and those that service the bottom half of the population will see their incomes evaporate....... 

When you took 100% of their wages, didn't those rich and middle class, those well paid government workers, those tens of millions of health care, defense, and those that service the bottom half of the population - Didn't they become poorer than the existing bottom half of the population?  Did they not just redefine a new, lower poverty level of $0 per year real income?

I think I'm failing Alstrynomics.

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#15) On June 07, 2009 at 4:27 PM, GenevaProdigy (27.69) wrote:

So, alstry, what are the criteria for an investing utopia? Personally I don't think there will ever be a 'right' time to invest, c'est la vie.

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#16) On June 07, 2009 at 4:37 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

Mary,

You are missing the forest for the trees......I promise you that I could come up with ten different scenarios where practically all income of EVERY American comes directly or indirectly from government.....we have been slowly moving in that direction for the past 30 years......it just really accellerated in the past ten years.

For example...let's say a massive war broke out....where we had to mobilize most of America's resources behind the war effort....what percentage of America's GDP would come directly or indirectly from government?????

War would be the much simpler way to get out of this mess based on yours and others responses to this blog.

Most have a problem being taxed 100% of their income...but few have a problem "volunteering" or subsidizing the war effort.....during war....citizens are even willing to volunteer their own and their children's lives.

Obama needs $3 Trillion dollars.....how do you propose he raise it to feed our poor, elderly and unemployed?????

As I said, the math is easy......the solution is somewhat more difficult....or if not difficult.....burdensome.

If you think Obama is going to "print" or borrow the money....how do you think his citizens would react to 100% interest rates, $100 loaves of bread, and $100,000 to fill up a tank of gas.

 

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#17) On June 07, 2009 at 4:53 PM, lordmorgul (42.23) wrote:

"Obama needs $3 Trillion dollars.....how do you propose he raise it to feed our poor, elderly and unemployed?????"

 

It doesn't take 3 Trillion dollars to do that.  I suggest the government stop wasting so much money on things that are neither sustaining life, nor supporting/protecting freedom.   For instance, studying the mating habits of honey bees... and other insects... which tax dollars recently went toward through NSF grants.

 

When things get rougher, the absurd wastefulness will stop.  We need politicians concerned with how they are going to feed their own families in the months and years to come.

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#18) On June 07, 2009 at 5:08 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

The "absurd wastefulness" in our government is very significant.....but insignificant relative to the spending American Government does with entititlements and defense/homeland security.

Without addressing entitlements or materially raising taxes.....all else is simply a beginning.

Again...War is the easiest way for Government to appropriate everything you have and adjust your expectations without going apes*^t.

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#19) On June 07, 2009 at 5:10 PM, jddubya (50.69) wrote:

#13 - Agreed.  Communism.  Which may or may not be a bad thing.  For a person with no assets (property, etc) it would be perfect.  For those with assets, which are the very same people paying most of the current taxes, they would walk away from work until it was absolutely necessary.

So... this very far fetched scenario, I get taxed 100% of my income.  I can either quit working and lose everything.  Or I can keep working and lose everything.  Right.  Not gonna happen.  I've already got my life bet on it, as do millions of american who aren't so lucky to have someone like Alstry brow beating them with maniacal rants (in between the sometimes coherent rants)

 

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#20) On June 07, 2009 at 5:14 PM, checklist34 (99.71) wrote:

the 2008 tax shock from crashing markets wiping out annual income for many if they were smart enough to take the losses, wait 30 days, and then get back in...

will be followed one day by a sort of tax boost on the way back up.

:)  always assume a middle case, neither great nor horrifying, for the outcome.

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#21) On June 07, 2009 at 5:23 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

jd,

Where does the $3 Trillion come from this year????

What about next year?????????????

Forget about the 100% tax for a second.

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#22) On June 07, 2009 at 5:46 PM, jesusfreakinco (28.83) wrote:

Alstry,

If you think Obama is going to "print" or borrow the money....how do you think his citizens would react to 100% interest rates, $100 loaves of bread, and $100,000 to fill up a tank of gas.

Now you are starting to sound like a hyper-inflationist.  Gold and foreign currencies are the place to hide.

JFC

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#23) On June 07, 2009 at 6:09 PM, OldEnglish (28.07) wrote:

Uhhh... you mean civil war right? Ludicrous. Americans are passive, weak, and predominantly employed by the government in some fashion. Yes, health care workers and college professors, are defacto government employees.

The victim class will continue to support the patronage class passively. They have no other choice. Well, technically they can go to a government run rape factory as an alternative. Look at the weaklings in Zimbabwe, they accepted their own destruction with their heads bowed. Just like Americans will.

The last people in to be unemployed in any kleptocracy are teachers, soldiers and the police. i.e. The control mechanisms. Even after a decade of chronic stagflation, Americans (house flippers) will be talking about how even more government action is needed because their state funded Keynesian professors told them so. 

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#24) On June 07, 2009 at 6:37 PM, UKIAHED (35.78) wrote:

Where does the $3 Trillion come from this year????

What about next year?????????????

I checked out your cite:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/index.php?year=2009

 

Now you have me curious – where does your $3 Trillion

come from for this year?  According to the site that you sent

us to – we are only shy $1.841 Trillion this year?  How did

you get $3 Trillion?  I though maybe you added ’09 and ’10

together – but then your line “What about next year?”

precludes that…

 

Regarding the 100% tax rate.  I would not cry for the top earners too soon – any idea what the highest federal tax rate has been in US history since World War 2?  Try 91% (from 1951 to 1963).  In fact – tax rates did not drop below 50% until 1987.

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#25) On June 07, 2009 at 6:49 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

That is simply the Federal Deficit...now add in State, County, Parish, City and Town deficits....and this does NOT include pension deficits which makes the number just plain silly....

If you guys can't handle just a small portion of the debt....how the heck can I expect you to see the whole picture.

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#26) On June 07, 2009 at 6:53 PM, JeramyUtara (95.29) wrote:

Alstry,

Stop insulting us by calling us clueless.  At least we don't have to take our crazy pills every morning.

One thing I've noticed is that you have NEVER highlighted a stock to purchase.  What would you buy?

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#27) On June 07, 2009 at 6:56 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

MISH ADOPTS ALSTRYNOMICS OFFICIALLY!!!!!!!!!!!

As you know, Alstry has been blogging that economics is all about telling you what you want to hear, where as Alstrynomics is about being right.

Here is what Mish blogged today:

Are economists paid to say what people want to hear? If not, can someone please tell me why economists are perennially such an optimistic lot, seldom collectively in the ballpark and constantly revising forecasts lower?

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#28) On June 07, 2009 at 7:15 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

Hmmmmm.

In North Carolina, where one in nine workers can't find a job, there's a county where the tough times haven't been all that bad. In fact, unemployment is well below the state average, relatively few homes are falling into foreclosure and people are still flocking to restaurants and spending money at stores.

The Teflon economy of Orange County is unique to the state but not the nation. The United States is dotted with places that appear to be islands of relative prosperity in the sea of recessionary woes. A common trait among these counties: At least 15 percent of the work force is employed by the government, according to an Associated Press analysis.

In Orange County, it's the University of North Carolina, the nation's oldest public university and, in good times or bad, a job-creating machine. Elsewhere, it's military bases, state capitals, universities and other government institutions.

The AP's Economic Stress Index, which factors in unemployment, foreclosures and bankruptcies to calculate a score that measures the relative impact of the recession, shows that about 300 of the nation's 3,000 counties are being sheltered from the economic storm by large numbers of workers who get paychecks from federal, state or local governments.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-Government-jobs-serve-as-apf-15459154.html?sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=

How long can this keep going when the money runs out???

You pick.....100% tax, massive job cuts....WAR!!!!!!!!

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#29) On June 07, 2009 at 7:27 PM, UKIAHED (35.78) wrote:

That is simply the Federal Deficit...now add in State, County, Parish, City and Town deficits....and this does NOT include pension deficits which makes the number just plain silly....

 

Hey, it was your cite.  OK – let’s keep going then:

 

"States are facing a great fiscal crisis.  At least 47 states faced or are facing shortfalls in their budgets for this and/or the next year or two.  Combined budget gaps for the remainder of this fiscal year and state fiscal years 2010 and 2011 are estimated to total more than $350 billion."

 

$1.84 Trillion + .35 Trillion – we are now at $2.19 Trillion.  There is no way that County, Parish, and city deficits will get you the rest of the way (If I am wrong – show me the data please).  You don’t get to count Social Security as it is already in the $1.84 Trillion federal number for this year.  All that is left is the “pension deficits” – you cannot be thinking of the Pension Benefit Guarantee program – that is only short  $33.5 Billion…  So what other government pension deficit would make up the difference for this year?

 

If you guys can't handle just a small portion of the debt..

 

Well, I sure feel like I can handle it – I’m a bit more concerned about how you are handling it…

You know – I hate the deficit and debt.  It actually pisses me off that we had a budget surplus in 2001,2000,1999, etc. – but that all got screwed up in subsequent years (anyone remember the peace dividend?).  Yes, I wish we could live within our means – but hey – this is America – that is not what we do.  Will the debt burden destroy our financial system – maybe – but not for years to come.  So for today – I live in fascination – not fear..and I invest for the future.

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#30) On June 07, 2009 at 7:40 PM, DEALWITHTHEDAY (59.05) wrote:

I am not going to take a stand for or against War with this. I also do not want to see anyone die from War or am I against defending your own.

With that said War is supported mostly by the lower income. If the government is carry in part or whole a major portion of this on Government Payroll. By creating a war they just change the budget that they pay them out of. So from this point creating a war is getting something for your dollar. But War is not what it used to be. During WWII many a soldier died. When I was somewhat younger the were 2 female gender to 1 male gender due to War. What war did was remove many Government sponsered people from there lower programs. The country kept moving along in Business and from the War more business. The Wars of old also were not high tech. Factories buzzed with people working. Many piece of equipment got destroyed and had to be replaced. Not the case today. We fight a high tech war where most (excluding Hummers) equipment does not get destroyed. We use cruise missles etc. And now we only have a few thousand die in several years.

Now with that being writing and not very well I'll add. I don't see war as the ultimate recovery machine that it used to be. I support many areas but not near as many as it used. I personally do not think War will work as a recovery machine until the rest of the world catches up with us with Technology. 

 

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#31) On June 07, 2009 at 7:41 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

Uki...

The $350 billion is the economists estimate.....$1 trillion is the Alstrynomics estimate......without factoring pension shortfalls.

Further.....we don't need to address the real deficit comparing accural to cash basis accounting....

Either way....at least you are getting closer.....and thanks for your concern.

 

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#32) On June 07, 2009 at 7:52 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

Deal,

You have little concept about the horrors of war based on the fact that this war was presented to the American population in a very sanitzed manner.....very different than Viet Nam.

But if you know those that have actually served in Iraw....you get a very different perspective.

Over 20,000 Americans were seriously injured in Iraq so far....many of whom would have died in previous wars but advancements in medical technology have left them mamed for the rest of their lives.

There is no humane war.....period.

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#33) On June 07, 2009 at 8:01 PM, DEALWITHTHEDAY (59.05) wrote:

I am not trying to make a political point with this just monetary. People have to die to be removed from the system. 20,000 injured just adds cost to the system. War does not remove these from the lower pay level.

I watch so many programs on IRAQ, I listen to what are soldier say. I am proud of them. I just happen to be from the area where Matt Maupin is from. You should have seen it the whole time he was missing.

This is not about pride. Your article is about money.

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#34) On June 07, 2009 at 8:07 PM, rd80 (98.44) wrote:

..tax the top 50% of Americans 100% of their incomes..

Why would I bother to get up and go to work if my after-tax paycheck was going to be zero?

100% tax rate = zero revenue.

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#35) On June 07, 2009 at 8:15 PM, DEALWITHTHEDAY (59.05) wrote:

RD

Most of us wouldn't. But Socialism doesn't care about an Upper Middle class. It has two classes the upper Bureacrats and the rest of utopia. Looking back over the past 30 years this has been changing to a socialist country. Not just Democrats but Repulicans too (now I can get both sides calling me names). Each one takes different rights away from us. One from the point of National Security, the other from the side of fairness.

I chose Deal With The Day because I have to worry about making money today as that is the way we live. If that changes I will deal with tomorrow. Trying to out guess the government is like trying to throw a feather into the wind.

How do we make money tomorrow?

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#36) On June 07, 2009 at 8:18 PM, drmanand (64.13) wrote:

I think we as a nation are  going in the same direction as california. Just wait and see what happens in california.

The other example might be UK. The taxes will go up significantly. The economy will slow down.

Is it not a bad idea to devalue the currency,so that we can import less and export more ?.

 

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#37) On June 07, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Mary953 (74.21) wrote:

rd80 -  your comment #34  Perfect, pithy, to the point!

How to fund an impossible deficit?  Put it off onto the next generation - and the next  - and the next  - and

Alstry would make a great politician, never cornered, because he answers any question that is a bit sticky with a totally new topic that has nothing to do with the question asked.  Like throwing in the red herring WAR.

It is interesting when you drop the Alstry persona at times and a shame that you don't do it more often.

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#38) On June 07, 2009 at 8:49 PM, dwot (72.07) wrote:

Now Astry, we aren't all clueless...

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#39) On June 07, 2009 at 8:53 PM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

dwot...you are in a league by yourself.

Mary......sometimes red herrings aren't herrings after all.

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#40) On June 07, 2009 at 11:27 PM, jddubya (50.69) wrote:

#21 - My best answer to your questions are in #6 above

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#41) On June 08, 2009 at 12:27 AM, HarryCarysGhost (99.68) wrote:

Even in times of War there were profits to be had.

If you think were screwed could'nt you just buy a N Korean ETF.

Me, I'm sticking with solid american companies.

Avoiding treasuries like the plague.

GlD at 850

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#42) On June 08, 2009 at 12:38 AM, HarryCarysGhost (99.68) wrote:

Meant to say GLD at 850

That's probably not gonna happen. I've been watching gold since 750 and it just keeps increasing.

now I have to go research gid.

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#43) On June 08, 2009 at 12:39 AM, 119862913 wrote:

Alstry,

Agreed, we hit the iceberg and will certainly sink (as per the plan). We've been flying with the angels for far too long, it's time we swim with the rest of the fishes (and their low value currencies). Bring on the hyperinflation.

MW

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#44) On June 08, 2009 at 9:10 AM, h2ound08 (< 20) wrote:

alstry, you present the 100% tax or massive government cuts as if those are the only 2 options.  i just dont see it being that black and white.  IF things are as bad as you blog, which might be the case, i still think there is a middle road.  you could increase taxes and cut goverment spending, which seems to be an obvious possibility.

also, why do you always dodge the questions how are you preparing?  are you all cash? guns and ammo and a bombshelter? gold and silver? i think youve got great insights, and i would love to know what youre investing, or not investing, in.

thanks.

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#45) On June 08, 2009 at 9:53 AM, alstry (35.38) wrote:

Cash, metals, and a little speculation is a good combination.

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#46) On June 08, 2009 at 9:58 AM, AllStarPortfolio (23.54) wrote:

Dwot. Alstry. Ron.

rec

It's true that nobody knows when. But the numbers are just unsustainable. It is funny the details are even needed. I'm not that smart, and won't hazard a guess, but it doesn't look good long term. If i was China/BRIC i would be planing world domination.

-solaris

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#47) On June 08, 2009 at 2:31 PM, maxnik0215 (65.75) wrote:

i've seen what happens when taxes get too high. People start coming up with all sorts of smart ways not to pay them. Everything will be barter or sold for cash. People will be selling for less if it's a cash transaction and can't be traced. And guess what - People in the Government know that also. They know that over certain limit - people stop paying.....

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#48) On June 08, 2009 at 4:46 PM, GenevaProdigy (27.69) wrote:

practically all income of EVERY American comes directly or indirectly from government.....we have been slowly moving in that direction for the past 30 years

In my travels abroad so far, blimey there's worse governments out there.

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#49) On June 08, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Bilifuduo (98.26) wrote:

how is war relevant to the 3 trillion dollar shortfall

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