Pacific Ethanol, Inc. (PEIX)

FleaBagger (96.00) Submitted: 5/14/08 1:54 PM

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You can feel the tide turning as even environmentalists are turning against ethanol. The farm lobby is powerful, but now they're up against literally every other American, except those working for, or invested in, ethanol companies. If we keep pressing the issue, we could end ethanol subsidies by spring 2009.

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tuffsledding (99.86) Submitted: 5/14/08 2:01 PM

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I hope you're right!

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jenwebb1954 (51.51) Submitted: 5/15/08 2:48 PM

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Food prices have more to do with the cost of processing (using electricity, fuel, etc) and the cost of transportation. How much do you think the wheat in your loaf of bread actually costs? I'm not saying (corn) Ethanol is the answer or only answer. Other countries have been using other options with tremendous success. But to blame the price of food on the production of feed corn for Ethanol is not correct either. For years farmers have been given money NOT to grow crops. It's about time they plant the fields available, and make enough money to sustain their farm naturally. Why are you saying nothing about their subsidies?

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ButtSauce (96.02) Submitted: 5/19/08 10:30 AM

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We already knew that ethanol releases lung corroding ozone at the ground level and has a similar pollution footprint to fossil fuels, so what you're seeing is an administration intentionally choosing an alternative energy that would fail so that we'd be back at square one with oil revenues staying consistent. Don't you think its odd we didn't choose wind, water or nuclear? Not when the GOP bows to their master, the oil giants. Ethanol is ending up to be no more than a catalyst that drives up commodity prices, and the hedge funds love that kind of predictibilty. Win-win for the political right.

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ohwhatthehell (< 20) Submitted: 5/19/08 9:11 PM

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Thank God the "greedy" farmers finally have a crop that might actually turn a profit. The farmers are not greedy, the processors are. Do some research. Buy into this. We can use the unused petroleum to make fertilizer.

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money4eds (55.42) Submitted: 5/20/08 12:55 PM

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The problem is simple the answer is complex. Ethanol is the only current fuel source we can burn in the autos without major changes. In fact you are already burning ethanol fuel in just about every gas mixture.

Corn based ethanol has many complex issues and is likely not the future of ethanol. Corn cost are high and ethanol energy is low. Corn will have to be changed for another feed stock.

The current technology is behind on development. Those subsidies are funding the technology development. Lower cost ethanol conversion processes are being developed that avoid a large part of the heating process with Natural gas.

Food cost are up and most of that cost has nothing to do with corn for ethanol.

Nice discussion but more research needs to be done.

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tuffsledding (99.86) Submitted: 5/23/08 5:13 PM

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My beef is not with the farmers. I am glad they are making a decent living. They deserve it. The problem is the politicians and the policy makers. As best as I can tell, it takes about as much energy to produce the ethanol as you get out of it when you burn it. So, it is simply stupid. I am not an economist or a farm policy expert, but when a large proportion of arable land is diverted to producing corn for ethanol, you are taking a lot of grain off the market and you will drive up prices. I think that is rather self-evident. I agree that the current spike in energy prices is contributing to the high cost of food, but so is the dumb idea of buring food for fuel. I hope people eventually figure out how to make ethanol out of wood chips or something like that, but cellulosic ethanol so far has been a bust.
In the meantime, we need to focus on truly renewable energy sources like wind, solar, thermal and ocean energy sources. Of course we do have a perfectly viable non-petroleum based source of energy = nuclear, which would go a long way to fix or dependency on foreign oil, but when our politicians pander to special interests and do not have the guts to face up to reality, I doubt they will support nuclear energy and risk controversy. Our president can't even pronounce the word, so what do you expect....

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TheParadox (93.27) Submitted: 6/03/08 9:20 AM

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...Thats a good point... But more importatnly, its not completely cost effective to mass produce ethanol. The technology is in cellulose processing, which also isn't online.

On a brighter note, COP uses "reactors" with high pressure and steam to turn plastic, rubber, vinyl, foam, cow fat, and some other car waste/food fats into good ol' Diesel, but its also not cost effective yet. But it would be kinda cool to power our cars from ...old cars...

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TheParadox (93.27) Submitted: 6/03/08 9:37 AM

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jenwebb, I disagree with your food price statement. My aunt runs a beef and chicken (egg) farm and relies on buying corn in mass amounts. The price of corn alone has soared almost 200%ish when i last saw her about a year and a half ago... She blames of ethanol production, why? well i dunno maybe word got around someone was selling their corn to produce ethanol. While i don't have any real hard evidence on why the price of corn has gone up, its definitely had a impact on the "eggs market" due to increased cost associated with feeding egg producing chickens.

I would think there would be a direct correlation to the increased production of Ethanol compared to the supply growth of corn. There clearly is a link from cost of corn to feeding farm animals. There clearly is a link from corn to ethanol.

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Stoptradingit420 (< 20) Submitted: 6/10/08 3:20 PM

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When FOOD prices go up

Heres what Happens.

www.huaren.com/UnitedNations/photo-1.htm

Our would you rather have more E85 Ethonal.And if so,where is the E85 gas station ???I know of one,it was built this year, about 100 miles away from me.Maybe next year they will have one only 50 miles away.???. It cost more & you get less miles ???.

e85.whipnet.net/locator/

If you add in the REAL costs of Ethonal, You get higher food prices that will never come down again & larger fishing dead zones from fertilizer run off,That will never come back and the cost of humanitarian aid around the world do to riseing hunger, ITS A COST WE CANNOT PAY.

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89832820

www.gallup.com/video/106429/Rising-Food-Costs-Exacerbate-Food-Crisis.aspx

climateprogress.org/2008/03/18/more-corn-ethanol-bigger-gulf-dead-zone/

----- KILL ETHANAL NOW --- BEFORE IT KILLS US ALL---------------

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GAWCO (23.56) Submitted: 6/13/08 4:18 PM

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Yes. It is everything you say it is. And it is sad and somewhat depressing to think about all the starving millions. I have decided NOT to THINK about them. I do say a prayer for them and donate to charities to help them. And I am prersently working on a project to turn water into fuel. When I succeed this will surely benefit mankind. Now, I don't know about greedy farmers, but I do know about greedy consumers who are glutenous and never get enough of anything. MORE MORE MORE. And they want it NOW!

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socialconscious (37.15) Submitted: 6/30/08 5:42 PM

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Underperform to the ground! I with Tuffsleding food for fuel is immoral. Lets forget corn or other crops that produce starch ethanol that requires natural gas to produce. We can make ethanol from switchgrass ( a grass found in the midwest prairies), and Miscanthus( other grass from Asia/Africa) or other cellulosic( non-edible) means. Lets find a way to make that cost effiicient with the same zeal we give to developing our weapons of war! Just my opinion if I offend or educate my apologies. S.C.

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kristm (99.77) Submitted: 7/03/08 2:42 PM

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When you get done with the whole "water into fuel" project maybe you can help me with my fledgling "cow pies into diamonds" business.

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tthwebster (< 20) Submitted: 7/26/08 4:08 PM

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oooh yeah I wanna piece of that!

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